PATRIOTS TRAINING CAMP Day 10 Training Camp Thread - Sunday August 8th

[Zuma]

 

[DropKickFlutie]

It's silly to hyper focus on practice stats on the QBs.

1. Going against the elite starting secondary is way different than throwing and beating Ja'Juan Williams over and over.

2. Most practice throws haven't been live speed with pads, and throwing against no defense doesn't even matter, it's more for learning and acclimation of not only QBs but a lot of new receivers.

3. I think Mac is the most promising rookie QB in his class but in general it's real bad news if the Pats are starting their rookie QB, if so then raise the white flag and trade all our vets before week7 because starting Mac means this team won't contend this year.



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[ashley]

Interesting write up from Reiss regarding Kirwin's view of the Pats after watching them: I can't really argue with any of his opinions, maybe OL thought would be "Outstanding" , but understand his depth concern. Also not sure about the cb depth.


From Reiss:

Kirwan, who co-hosts the "Movin' The Chains" show on Sirius XM NFL Radio with former quarterback Jim Miller, liked what he saw at Patriots camp. "This is a surprise team on the horizon. People that haven't been thinking of them, like me, but after you watch them and study them, there's a reason to be excited this could be a playoff team."

Kirwan's position-by-position assessment:

• WR -- Solid but not deep
• TE -- Outstanding
• OL -- Solid but not deep
• QB -- Major question on team
• RB -- Solid and deep
• DL -- Solid and deep
• OLB -- Solid and deep
• ILB -- Good enough to win with
• CB -- Solid and deep
• S -- Good
• ST -- Excellent

 

[jdlboot14]

I don't know how we'd get an "Excellent" ST with a very unsettled Kicker position... either an inconsistent rookie, or streaky Folk.
Although the bulk of our team is very solid, we all know it completely rides on the QB. And neither option breeds confidence.

 

[masterbouncer]

3. I think Mac is the most promising rookie QB in his class but in general it's real bad news if the Pats are starting their rookie QB, if so then raise the white flag and trade all our vets before week7 because starting Mac means this team won't contend this year.

Why, you really think with Cam they will be better?
Mac is already now more accurate than Cam will and has ever been, same when it comes to reading defenses, Cam was and is still **** at it.
In the past he was quite fast and a truck running around but you can see he slowed down already, he isn't moving that fast anymore and you actually don't need another RB, we need a QB. Thus Mac is the one that will save the season if he is ready, if not you could already raise the white flag before you start the season with Cam as your starter.

 

[Zuma]

It's silly to hyper focus on practice stats on the QBs.

Agreed....stats are for LOSERS...especially during training camp! BTW here are some stats ...

Live from Patriots training camp: Mac Jones creates momentum in quarterback competition

Patriots live blog

www.providencejournal.com

Accurate stats prior to Friday's day 9 walk through...

"Newton is 79-of-131, completing 60% of his throws in team drills this summer. He also has five interceptions. Jones is 96-of-151, completing 64% of his passes in camp. He has two interceptions."

 

[reflexblue]

The team won't contend this year. They may not contend (truly contend) for a long time. Even if Mac works out well for us. I think some Patriots fans don't really understand this. The reason we contended every year was due to Brady. He was the peice which put everything else over the top. If you want to contend almost every year you need a HOF QB ala Peyton, Rodgers, Favre, Elway, Brees, Young, ect.... And most of those years even with that level of QB you will only truly have a chance if other things come together for you very nicely. But it at least puts you at the baseline. Guys like Brady, Mahomes, Montana are even a step up from those. The elite of the HOF caliber. We aren't getting that again, ever. They are generational players at that position.

Even if Mac turns out to be HOF caliber like the level of Peyton/Farve and co, it won't be enough to put them in a spot where they can start winning again. Even HOF QBs like that need a pretty loaded team. Even if you put that level of QB on our team right now, they would still be on the outside looking in. And if you don't believe me, really look at what it has taken QBs like that to win in the past. The defenses they have needed, along with the top tier offensive weapons.

IMO it was more than TBs greatness at QB, it was his attitude, his drive to work and win, that spread to the team. Look no farther than Tampa Bay, they started to believe in themselves and not settle for less. His drive for perfection and competition is infectious.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

This is the 2021 training camp thread - not a TB12 or Brady vs. Belichick thread.

 

[Deus Irae]

This is the 2021 training camp thread - not a TB12 or Brady vs. Belichick thread.

You should point out every single post that is making this a Brady v. Belichick thread. So far, I have the number of such posts at "0".

 

[Deus Irae]

The team won't contend this year. They may not contend (truly contend) for a long time. Even if Mac works out well for us. I think some Patriots fans don't really understand this. The reason we contended every year was due to Brady. He was the peice which put everything else over the top. If you want to contend almost every year you need a HOF QB ala Peyton, Rodgers, Favre, Elway, Brees, Young, ect.... And most of those years even with that level of QB you will only truly have a chance if other things come together for you very nicely. But it at least puts you at the baseline. Guys like Brady, Mahomes, Montana are even a step up from those. The elite of the HOF caliber. We aren't getting that again, ever. They are generational players at that position.

Even if Mac turns out to be HOF caliber like the level of Peyton/Farve and co, it won't be enough to put them in a spot where they can start winning again. Even HOF QBs like that need a pretty loaded team. Even if you put that level of QB on our team right now, they would still be on the outside looking in. And if you don't believe me, really look at what it has taken QBs like that to win in the past. The defenses they have needed, along with the top tier offensive weapons.

It really depends on how you're using the word "contend". If essentially all the FAs hit, and if the team gets good QB play, this team can "contend" (if contend is being a viable playoff contender) as soon as this season.

 

[Patsgofor4]

The team won't contend this year. They may not contend (truly contend) for a long time. Even if Mac works out well for us. I think some Patriots fans don't really understand this. The reason we contended every year was due to Brady. He was the peice which put everything else over the top. If you want to contend almost every year you need a HOF QB ala Peyton, Rodgers, Favre, Elway, Brees, Young, ect.... And most of those years even with that level of QB you will only truly have a chance if other things come together for you very nicely. But it at least puts you at the baseline. Guys like Brady, Mahomes, Montana are even a step up from those. The elite of the HOF caliber. We aren't getting that again, ever. They are generational players at that position.

Even if Mac turns out to be HOF caliber like the level of Peyton/Farve and co, it won't be enough to put them in a spot where they can start winning again. Even HOF QBs like that need a pretty loaded team. Even if you put that level of QB on our team right now, they would still be on the outside looking in. And if you don't believe me, really look at what it has taken QBs like that to win in the past. The defenses they have needed, along with the top tier offensive weapons.

Well, that’s that, I guess. No reason for you to continue to follow the Pats and/or post here, if you truly believe all of that (horsesh*t). Best of luck.

PS.
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 50: (The ghost of) Peyton Manning, 0TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs

 

[rochrist]

The team won't contend this year. They may not contend (truly contend) for a long time. Even if Mac works out well for us. I think some Patriots fans don't really understand this. The reason we contended every year was due to Brady. He was the peice which put everything else over the top. If you want to contend almost every year you need a HOF QB ala Peyton, Rodgers, Favre, Elway, Brees, Young, ect.... And most of those years even with that level of QB you will only truly have a chance if other things come together for you very nicely. But it at least puts you at the baseline. Guys like Brady, Mahomes, Montana are even a step up from those. The elite of the HOF caliber. We aren't getting that again, ever. They are generational players at that position.

Even if Mac turns out to be HOF caliber like the level of Peyton/Farve and co, it won't be enough to put them in a spot where they can start winning again. Even HOF QBs like that need a pretty loaded team. Even if you put that level of QB on our team right now, they would still be on the outside looking in. And if you don't believe me, really look at what it has taken QBs like that to win in the past. The defenses they have needed, along with the top tier offensive weapons.

Some not very good teams and some really not very QBs have one in the past. Nevertheless, this post makes a WHOLE lot of assumptions.

 

[Patsgofor4]

Some not very good teams and some really not very QBs have one in the past. Nevertheless, this post makes a WHOLE lot of assumptions.

He also may want to review Brady’s stat line in the SB 53 against the Rams. Anemic performance….hint: The number of passing TDs starts with a Z and ends with an ero. That game was won by the defense that BB put together carrying out the game plan that BB put together to near perfection, after the wise decision by Bill and Josh to commit to the run game late in the season and into the playoffs.

 

[ashley]

I don't know how we'd get an "Excellent" ST with a very unsettled Kicker position... either an inconsistent rookie, or streaky Folk.
Although the bulk of our team is very solid, we all know it completely rides on the QB. And neither option breeds confidence.

I think if you consider we have the best punter in the league, Gunner, who was an all pro last year, the best special teams coverage in the league led by Slater, Bethel, Davis, King and Bolden plus our kicker Folk who was 26/28 on fg's last year and a talented rookie kicker. I think our Special teams is as good as any in the league.

 

[farn]

I don't know how we'd get an "Excellent" ST with a very unsettled Kicker position... either an inconsistent rookie, or streaky Folk.
Although the bulk of our team is very solid, we all know it completely rides on the QB. And neither option breeds confidence.

Streaky Folk ? In 2019-20 seasons ?

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

You should point out every single post that is making this a Brady v. Belichick thread. So far, I have the number of such posts at "0".

Just getting ahead of it Deus. TB12 posts lead to Brady vs. Belichick posts. Glad to see you can still count. ;-)

 

[50-yard-line]

The team won't contend this year. They may not contend (truly contend) for a long time. Even if Mac works out well for us. I think some Patriots fans don't really understand this. The reason we contended every year was due to Brady. He was the peice which put everything else over the top. If you want to contend almost every year you need a HOF QB ala Peyton, Rodgers, Favre, Elway, Brees, Young, ect.... And most of those years even with that level of QB you will only truly have a chance if other things come together for you very nicely. But it at least puts you at the baseline. Guys like Brady, Mahomes, Montana are even a step up from those. The elite of the HOF caliber. We aren't getting that again, ever. They are generational players at that position.

Even if Mac turns out to be HOF caliber like the level of Peyton/Farve and co, it won't be enough to put them in a spot where they can start winning again. Even HOF QBs like that need a pretty loaded team. Even if you put that level of QB on our team right now, they would still be on the outside looking in. And if you don't believe me, really look at what it has taken QBs like that to win in the past. The defenses they have needed, along with the top tier offensive weapons.

Nah, that's way too pessimistic. Hall-of-Fame Coach and an owner determined to win.

Sure, Brady dominated (on a BB team), but the other QBs in the last 20 superbowls haven't all been generational talents. Peyton and Mahomes were special, but Roethlisberger, Brees, Eli, and all the others weren't. We see good QBs flail on bad teams and bad QBs succeed on great teams. Reducing football to one player or one position is silly.

Sure, it's hard to measure in the modern age because the Patriots have been so over-the-top. But I have no doubt about it - give BB a good, not generational, QB who can run the game-plan and make the throws without making too many mistakes and he'll get back to the SB. And his team, disciplined, with players put in a position to succeed, low on penalties and turnovers, innovative on both sides of the ball, will contend almost every year.

 

[ashley]

Just getting ahead of it Deus. TB12 posts lead to Brady vs. Belichick posts. Glad to see you can still count. ;-)

There won't be any of that in this thread, I'll make sure of it.

 

[Gumby]

Well, that’s that, I guess. No reason for you to continue to follow the Pats and/or post here, if you truly believe all of that (horsesh*t). Best of luck.

PS.
Super Bowl 42. Eli Manning (MVP), 2 TDs
Super Bowl 46: Eli Manning (MVP), 1 TD
Super Bowl 47: Joe Flacco (MVP), 3TDs
Super Bowl 50: (The ghost of) Peyton Manning, 0TDs
Super Bowl 52: Nick Foles (MVP), 3 TDs

Was thinking something similar,

I would add Super bowl 48: russell Wilson 2td

he is good, but not sure I would give him (or even Mahomes YET) this recently beloved term: „generational QB“

TB is the one who swings the whole pendulum in this ‚generational Qb‚ argument. If he didn’t exist the 2000-20 period looks more like the 80s where 6/10 SB winning QBs don’t even make HOF ( and the other 4 are all J Montana. )

Again, Marino and Kelly were ‚generational QBs, how many SB wins.?

A Phil Simms is good enough to win.

mac or even cam could be Simms level for sure by 2022 season and maybe by 21-22 playoffs.

so don’t get all Debby downer on us.

 

[BobDigital]

Some not very good teams and some really not very QBs have one in the past. Nevertheless, this post makes a WHOLE lot of assumptions.

I am only making 2 assumptions with this post.

Assumption 1. We don't have an absolutely amazing QB who is ready to dominate and be the difference maker that bends the league to their will this year.

Assumption 2. Our Defense isn't lights out dominant that will crush every good offense in it's wake, and score some points while doing it.

Those are the only assumptions I'm making. I think they are fair. It doesn't mean I don't support the team. It doesn't mean I won't cheer for the team. It doesn't mean I'm trying to be doom and gloom. And it doesn't mean I don't believe we can eventually win a superbowl with Mac. Having BB is a nice bonus of course. But it is the jimmies and joes, not X's and O's that we need. And we just don't have them this year. If we could hit on our pass rushers in this years draft (which we might have) and hit another next year, that could put our D where it needs to be potentially. I'm hoping we can do it.

While much of the focus is on Mac, and rightly so, I'm also looking forward to hearing more about the progress of Christian Barmore and Ronnie Perkins. Those are the kind of players we really need to see results from. So far I've heard very good news when it comes to Barmore, and I hope that keeps up.