Chris Long's change of direction and athletic ability....impressive!

[PatsandTrojans55]

You are the one who talked out his arse and made the claim that the Patriots were changing their philosophy to more speed and play-making ability. You CLAIM that their previous acquisitions are examples of that. When called on it, instead of supporting it with actual PROOF, you basically say that you don't have to support anything and that we should just listen to you (a nobody who hasn't proven they know a damn thing about anything). You put the onus on us to disprove you? That's a joke. PROVE IT. Show everyone how their changing their defensive philosophy to speed and play-makers.

Actually the proof is in the acquisitions. AD is all speed and playmaking ability drafting Meriweather (who you didn't want). Remember they don't typically get the Top Free Agent. Then they add on offense Stallworth (speed), Washington (Speed), Welker (Speed + Quickness) and finally Moss. Whom I be you didn't believe would fit in. Why add speed now more then in the past? Because they other teams were catching up in team speed and they play on an artificial surface now instead of quick sand. This team is adapting to the league and will continue even if you don't think so.

By the way "I don't put the onus us" I put it on you! Since you invited yourself into my conversation. YOU don't speak for "Patriots nation". You speak for yourself "DaBruinz" and that's it. I'm sorry that you feel a sense of importance on this board and are entitle to a self sense of respect because you have 9000+ posts. Well congrats on your 9000+ posts.

 

[Seneschal2]

Thought I'd chirp in to this wonderful debate that's seeping from the Groves thread. Just a couple of ideas about both Al Groh and Mike Vrabel in reference to Long and Gholston respectively.

Perhaps in an effort to provide a more accurate evaluation of these two prospects, I'm positive that BB and Pioli would welcome any input from Groh and Vrabel as to whether or not they could play in the Pats defense. And isn't that really what it comes down to? Groh is far more than Long's HC, but a personal friend of BB in the coaching ranks, and former Pats DC and LB coach. In addition, Groh was the only Pats coach sent by Parcells to work out McGinest prior to the Pats drafting him. So his familiarity with BB's defense, and the role that McGinest played, make him qualified to objectively and honestly say if Long is capable -- or not.

Vrabel's ties to Ohio St are now well documented. He remains close to the scene there, and I'm sure (have no doubt), that given Vrabel's smarts and coaching ability, and inside info, he'll know if Gholston can handle the DE/OLB responsibilities in the Pats D.

We may not have an opportunity to select Long -- but Gholston's still a possiblity. I'm convinced, that of all of the DE/OLB prospects, BB has a bit more valuable info on these two.

 

[PatsandTrojans55]

Actually, according to reports, Groves STUNK as a 3-4 OLB and is best suited to a 4-3 DE position.

[/U]"Reports" Link please! And yeah a 254 pounder at the DE in the League. OKAY. Also, your "REPORTS" compare his speed to NFL Legends.
[/B]
I comprehend things just fine when they are written properly. You start off by talking about trading #7 for 3 picks, but then only talk about getting two players total. You don't make it an option in your post. If you weren't trying to show respected posters (PonyExpress) how much smarter you are than them, you might actually have something to offer. Right now, your a loudmouthed know nothing who has his binkie in Quentin Groves and you don't like Chris long.


If you comprehend so well then show me once where I said "I don't like Chris Long". I've actually met the young man more than once and love him. But your right you comprehend.


The poster felt that Long has more talent than any current player on the Patriots roster. You've done NOTHING to show that his opinion is wrong. That's his opinion and he's entitled to it.


So let me get this straight. I have to go through you as the Pats Nation spokes person if I want to critcize a post because they have been posting longer. No matter how assinine his comment was and is. Right I got it.
Also, Mr. reading comprehension he was arguing the talent on the defense not "any current player on the Patriots Roster".
Personally, I want the Patriots to trade down, picking up as many extra picks as possible so they can address as many holes as possible with the talent that they have rated highly on their draft board. However, if they can't trade down, and Chris Long were there, then it would seem like a no-brainer to take him.


Here's whats funny you talk trash throw insults and then agree with my WHOLE ENTIRE premise of my argument. Man, you comprehend like a politician.



You proved my point on Groves if you cared to look up Auburns All-Time leader in sacks like sebman posted or watched film on Groves for his Auburn career. I know you don't have access to the coach's film tape so your just giving your opinion because you like Long and have your heart set on him. It's cool.

Actually, I didn't prove your point on Groves. But you can believe whatever your deluded little heart desires. Its clear Groves is your binkie and that you have your heart set on the Patriots drafting him.


Actually you did. Mr. "Reading comprehension" Read it again. Funny you still haven't posted one report on Groves being a 4-3 OLB Strictly like you suggest.
As for liking Long, I don't have a strong opinion on him one way or the other. I just take issue with nobodies like yourself thinking that they are all high and mighty and such going off on posters here who actually know something.[/QUOTE]

So is PonyExpress you son? Because your insulting him more than me by making him seem so ignorant and feeble minded that you have to come to his rescue like a knight on a horse. Heck, Pony might be smarter than you even though you won't admit it.


All I've "Proven" is I know alot about football college and Pro and that my pysch evaluation on you is DEAD-ON. Man, I love my job.

 

[ATippett56]

Jon had an official 4.63 forty. I've been talking about Goff for a while on here, and it seems two of the guys I like (Groves and Goff) haven't received much love or coverage during this draft process. Goff was a consistent producer in the SEC, durable, a team leader, has a big frame, and he's intelligent. I also thought he looked good in some of the drills they've run so far.

I also like Goff but now more so due to his 4.63 forty. As for value, if the Patriots trade down from #7 and pick up a first and second round draft selection in the 2008 NFL Draft, the Patriots could draft a cornerback in the middle to late first round while selecting Cliff Avril in the middle to late second round.

 

[zarakotas5]

I'm a nobody who hasn't "Proven to know anything about football"? Based on what a post count?
Actually I could embarass you with what I know, who I know and what I actually do. But I let fans like yourself feel self gratification because you value yourself as a fan more than the sport values you. I see it everyday these message boards.

Well, it appears you have plenty of embarrassin' to mete out.

I have a question about Groves. Athletically, he's great. But why does he have so many lapses in concentration? Why isn't he always in position and ready for the snap?

 

[reflexblue]

I don't know if this has been posted yet,but I don't care about a LB's 40 time. I want to know how fast his first 10 yards are. Becaus most of the time someone like Groves,or Long is going to be ten yards from the QB. where he's lined up. Not 40. I want to know how his burst off the line is.

 

[mgteich]

Chris Long may be the first pick in the draft. I'm still not sure why you all think Groves will be available if we trade down. For example, if Gholston is gone at #6, I don't think we should hesitate to choose Groves at #7. If we believe he is a stud, we should draft him. If we believe that he is a player almost equal to those in the 10-25 range, then we should trade down.

Long
Long
Dorsey
Ryan
Ellis
McFadden or Otoh or Clady

4.71 isn't at all slow for a 272lbs DE/OLB. His 4.71 isn't far off Gholston's 4.64 either.

I've already talked about how much I like Groves (been talking about him for months), so you don't have to win me over. Trading down and taking Groves has been among my favorite options, too. Besides I don't think there's even a 10% chance Chris Long makes it to 7th overall, so I didn't post this thread for that reason.

Also, Harvey at 291lbs has looked better than I expected.

 

[VJCPatriot]

Yea, Groves official time was 4.57 (great for a 6'3" 250lbs LB), and Goff officially ran a 4.63.

Wow nice. So if the Pats take say Groves and Goff they could be set at LB. But where will the corner come from? Flowers in the 2nd? He's a midget, but he supports the run well and plays aggressively.

 

[ayjackson]

I know Chris Long will never make it down to #7, but he could make it to #5. That could be within striking distance. Miami would have to go Ryan or Jake Long and then as long as the other, DMC and one of the DT's go in the next three, CLong is there at 5.

 

[rookBoston]

I think, if Long gets past the Fins, BB will look to trade up for him. He is the prototype for a Belichick LB, and it helps that he has four years with Groh-- no question about it. BB has shown a preference for picking players from the hands of coaches he knows and respects: Pat Hill, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer... and certainly Groh is in that set.

BB has always been prepared to tradeoff speed for size in his LBs. Not that 4.7 is slow at 270#. But, it's not the 40 time that draws the admiration, it's the agility and smarts packed in a 270# frame. Speed is only required to compensate for being out of position, and that is never the case for long with players in this scheme. If they're consistently out of position, they go the way of Monty Beisel.

Remember, BB has the experience of drafting Lawrence Taylor, and he talks about that a lot. I'm sure, his demonstrated selectivity in choosing young LBs is informed by that experience, and feeds his high expectations in the draft. Long may be that caliber of a player, and if he is, BB is not going to wait for lighting to strike again. He'll make a bold move for a player he likes, if he sees the value. And if that means trading a few picks away... well, that's what they're there for.

 

[mgteich]

I agree. I too have been advocating moving up to get Long instead of staying put or moving down. Actually, I would move up for either Long.

I think, if Long gets past the Fins, BB will look to trade up for him. He is the prototype for a Belichick LB, and it helps that he has four years with Groh-- no question about it. BB has shown a preference for picking players from the hands of coaches he knows and respects: Pat Hill, Nick Saban, Urban Meyer... and certainly Groh is in that set.

BB has always been prepared to tradeoff speed for size in his LBs. Not that 4.7 is slow at 270#. But, it's not the 40 time that draws the admiration, it's the agility and smarts packed in a 270# frame. Speed is only required to compensate for being out of position, and that is never the case for long with players in this scheme. If they're consistently out of position, they go the way of Monty Beisel.

Remember, BB has the experience of drafting Lawrence Taylor, and he talks about that a lot. I'm sure, his demonstrated selectivity in choosing young LBs is informed by that experience, and feeds his high expectations in the draft. Long may be that caliber of a player, and if he is, BB is not going to wait for lighting to strike again. He'll make a bold move for a player he likes, if he sees the value. And if that means trading a few picks away... well, that's what they're there for.