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2022 PTP Draft Board / Pats Draft Talk

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DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Really don’t understand our draft this year. Cole Strange, Bailey Zappe are the very confusing and odd picks. Strange I still don’t understand and don’t think I will, I preferred Kinnard, Jamaree Salyer both who went in the 5th and sixth rounds, who I feel would be better players.

Bailey Zappe I just think it’s reach for a back up QB when there are so many holes in this roster. If he was taken in the sixth I could understand but in the 4th I don’t.

Not sure what everyone else feels but this draft has felt slightly underwhelming considering the trades we’ve made and the players we could of taken.

There isn't much to understand. Your analysis of Strange is wrong and flies in the face of like 75% of the NFL teams. At least 4 Teams saw Strange as a 1st round pick. More than half the others saw him as at least a 2nd round pick. Are you saying that your ability to scout players is better than people in the NFL? Mine sure isn't. It's why I stopped making claims about reaches and steals a long time ago. Because I realized that the data I was using (from teh draftniks) was erroneous and full of assumptions that don't apply to every team.

I think it also ignores that Strange is almost identical to Matt Light in Height, Weight, Arm Length and Hands. Strange played OG out of need. But he also played Center and T. He spent time at the Senior Bowl at Center. And though he was beat early on in practices, he came back and held his own against Logan Hall and Travis Jones.

Clearly where you believe there are holes the Patriots don't. So many people forget that the Patriots rater the players in the draft against their own. So why would they take players who are rated below what's currently on the roster???

I thought for sure they'd add a NT. They chose to add Thornton instead of Travis Jones. Thornton gives them their "Tyreek Hill". I can understand why they did it. They wanted Mac to have a weapon that will grow with him. They DID add another 3/5 Tech DT. Which is surprising because they've run a 4-2 OVER the past 5 years as their primary defense.. And they have a TON of 3/5 guys on the team and only 2 guys in Davis and Eukale for NT. Davis can't seem to stay healthy. Eukale had limited success there.

I was more shocked by the two RBs. With Harris, Stevenson, White, Taylor, I thought the Patriots were well stocked. Clearly my assumptions wee wrong. I'm fairly confident that it signals the end of JJ Taylor's time with the team. News came out yesterday that White isn't as healthy as was hoped. D. Harris is a free agent at the end of the year. I personally think D. Harris is one of the best RBs in the league and should be kept. But the Pats have their policy of not over-paying. Not to mention that Harris hasn't had a fully healthy season to this point. Adding Strong and K. Harris protects the team going into 2023. So I can understand the pick.

The Patriots have 6 guys returning from injury on the defense. McGrone, McMillan, Perkins, Jennings, J. Jones, and Bledsoe. They also added Jabril Peppers and Mack Wilson. On paper, that's a lot of talent. McMillan, Wilson, and Bentley are going to battle it out for the starting 2 LB spots. McGrone and whomever loses between the other three will see time in rotation. Peppers may also see time there or he'll see time as the 3rd Safety. Bledsoe will probably be only on special teams this year.

But it's clear to see why the Patriots might have thought they didn't have a hole at LB while WE did.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Sony was a horrible player! he benefited from that Great Blocking OL which included Gronk he was going through Alley ways.
This is completely false. You're ignoring 2020 when Michel played well despite the issues on the O-line.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
You didn't miss anything.

The Jones boys Both ****ing Suck (especially JackOff) and didn't ****ing deserve to be on the list.
Seriously. Put your crack pipe down because you're too high to be commenting such garbage.

Marcus Jones is an awesome 3rd round pick. Though he's small (5'8) he plays BIG. He's an excellent corner and played both in the slot and on the outside, doing very well against many a receiver. Not only that, but he is an amazing kick returner AND punt returner. So that kills two birds with one stone..
 

Kasmir

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I love how the media draftniks are never wrong: if a player falls deeply from their consensus board, the team that picks him is awarded a massive "steal"; if a player rises steeply above where their board has him the team that picks him is punished with a massive "reach". LOL.
 

skinnydog

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
I was pretty baffled by the Cole Strange pick. You can get good starting caliber guards in later rounds. And part of the sting with this pick is the trade of Mason to Tampa. I hope I am wildly wrong about the pick and he is a starter here for the next 10 years (I know likely 5 years tops as we probably won’t pay for a second contract). I don’t care if he ever makes a pro bowl (nice if he does), but I don’t think it’s unrealistic to hope he becomes a top 5 or L guard. We’ll see. But there’s another way to see if this was a good pick if we assume the Pats wanted to walk away with a starting guard and speedy WR with their first 2 picks. No other team drafted a guard until Tampa Bay drafted Goedeke at 57 in the second round. So if the Pats had passed on Strange and picked a WR in the first they might still have gotten Strange in the second with pick 50 and at worst they would have been left with their next highest rated guard if someone else jumped on Strange before pick 50. So who did they pass on by picking a strange in the first round? Christian Watson, Wan’dale Robinson and John Metchie. Of those, Watson is a pretty close comp to Thornton. So to see if the Strange pick turns out to be a good one I’ll be comparing him to Goedeke and Thornton to Watson over the next couple of years.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
I was pretty baffled by the Cole Strange pick. You can get good starting caliber guards in later rounds. And part of the sting with this pick is the trade of Mason to Tampa. I hope I am wildly wrong about the pick and he is a starter here for the next 10 years (I know likely 5 years tops as we probably won’t pay for a second contract). I don’t care if he ever makes a pro bowl (nice if he does), but I don’t think it’s unrealistic to hope he becomes a top 5 or L guard. We’ll see. But there’s another way to see if this was a good pick if we assume the Pats wanted to walk away with a starting guard and speedy WR with their first 2 picks. No other team drafted a guard until Tampa Bay drafted Goedeke at 57 in the second round. So if the Pats had passed on Strange and picked a WR in the first they might still have gotten Strange in the second with pick 50 and at worst they would have been left with their next highest rated guard if someone else jumped on Strange before pick 50. So who did they pass on by picking a strange in the first round? Christian Watson, Wan’dale Robinson and John Metchie. Of those, Watson is a pretty close comp to Thornton. So to see if the Strange pick turns out to be a good one I’ll be comparing him to Goedeke and Thornton to Watson over the next couple of years.

A lot of people (myself included) were shocked to see the Patriots take Strange. However, information has since come out that shows that the "Draftnicks" and TEAMS viewed Strange differently.

What's been reported:
- at least 4 teams had a 1st round grade on Strange, including TB & and SF.
- Over half the remaining teams had a 2nd round grade on Strange.
- BB implied that Strange wouldn't have lasted until 54.
- Cole Strange went to UT-C as an OT. He kicked in to guard because that's what the team needed him to do. He filled in at Center for 2 games and started at LT for 1.

Other information:
- Strange has almost identical height/weight/arm length/ hand size to Matt Light. His athletic measurables are the same or better than Light's.
- Strange played CENTER at the Senior Bowl despite only having 2 games of experience there in his entire career. Despite such little experience, Strange more than held his own against the likes of Logan Hall and Travis Jones. They each beat him once early in the week.. But he stoned them later.

Potential happenings:
- With Strange off the board, the 8+ teams that had guard as a need that were drafting between 33-53 felt there weren't any other guard prospect worthy of being drafted in that range.
- Tampa Bay, having a 1st round grade on Strange, likely would have taken Strange at 33 instead of waiting until 57 to take Goedeke.
- Just like with Matt Light (whom the Pundits said should be a OG in the NFL) the Patriots could view Strange as the eventual replacement to Isaiah Wynn.


My Take:
The dealing of Mason had zero to do with how they viewed Strange or the "need" on the offensive line. I was just one of a several people who said that the O-line was very inconsistent last year, even with Karras at LG instead of Onwenu. The offseason moves of Karras signing with Cincy and the trading of Mason opened the way for Onwenu to go to RG and allowed the team to re-sign Trent Brown on a 2 year deal.

The Pats drafted Strange because his potential is significantly higher than that of Karras. Not to mention the versatility he brings. His willingness to play any position on the O-line as well as the nastiness he brings will do wonders. I think that the Patriots DO view Strange as the next LT to replace Wynn. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Strange will be the #3 OT (Swing) coming out of Training camp and hearing people complain about the "waste" of a pick. I wouldn't be surprised to hear he's spending time with Yates working on shotgun snapping as well as his positional drills. Hopefully , Strange will be just the EMERGENY OC and that one of Russey, Hines or Shanahan will be the #2 OC with Ferentz banished to the Shadow roster never to be seen again.
 

skinnydog

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
A lot of people (myself included) were shocked to see the Patriots take Strange. However, information has since come out that shows that the "Draftnicks" and TEAMS viewed Strange differently.

What's been reported:
- at least 4 teams had a 1st round grade on Strange, including TB & and SF.
- Over half the remaining teams had a 2nd round grade on Strange.
- BB implied that Strange wouldn't have lasted until 54.
- Cole Strange went to UT-C as an OT. He kicked in to guard because that's what the team needed him to do. He filled in at Center for 2 games and started at LT for 1.

Other information:
- Strange has almost identical height/weight/arm length/ hand size to Matt Light. His athletic measurables are the same or better than Light's.
- Strange played CENTER at the Senior Bowl despite only having 2 games of experience there in his entire career. Despite such little experience, Strange more than held his own against the likes of Logan Hall and Travis Jones. They each beat him once early in the week.. But he stoned them later.

Potential happenings:
- With Strange off the board, the 8+ teams that had guard as a need that were drafting between 33-53 felt there weren't any other guard prospect worthy of being drafted in that range.
- Tampa Bay, having a 1st round grade on Strange, likely would have taken Strange at 33 instead of waiting until 57 to take Goedeke.
- Just like with Matt Light (whom the Pundits said should be a OG in the NFL) the Patriots could view Strange as the eventual replacement to Isaiah Wynn.


My Take:
The dealing of Mason had zero to do with how they viewed Strange or the "need" on the offensive line. I was just one of a several people who said that the O-line was very inconsistent last year, even with Karras at LG instead of Onwenu. The offseason moves of Karras signing with Cincy and the trading of Mason opened the way for Onwenu to go to RG and allowed the team to re-sign Trent Brown on a 2 year deal.

The Pats drafted Strange because his potential is significantly higher than that of Karras. Not to mention the versatility he brings. His willingness to play any position on the O-line as well as the nastiness he brings will do wonders. I think that the Patriots DO view Strange as the next LT to replace Wynn. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Strange will be the #3 OT (Swing) coming out of Training camp and hearing people complain about the "waste" of a pick. I wouldn't be surprised to hear he's spending time with Yates working on shotgun snapping as well as his positional drills. Hopefully , Strange will be just the EMERGENY OC and that one of Russey, Hines or Shanahan will be the #2 OC with Ferentz banished to the Shadow roster never to be seen again.
These are all interesting points, but I’m not buying that 4 other teams had first round grades on Strange. I’d like to see the source for that. Tamps,could have drafted him in the first, but they chose to trade back. I do get your thought process and the moreI read about Strange the more I think he’ll be a good guard. I get that he held his own at the Senior Bowl, but he did get burned a few times too. Also, his level of competition was well below most of the other kigher rated guards. This might turn out to be a home run pick, though I don’t think so. But there is an opportunity cost to this pick. Even the best guards are solid, not spectacular. I’ll be looking at the players taken after him and before the Pats second round pick. If Strange turns out to be solid, but some of those picks turn out to be real difference makers, especially the WRs then I will view it as a big miss especially because good solid guards can be found in mid to later rounds.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
These are all interesting points, but I’m not buying that 4 other teams had first round grades on Strange. I’d like to see the source for that. Tamps,could have drafted him in the first, but they chose to trade back. I do get your thought process and the moreI read about Strange the more I think he’ll be a good guard. I get that he held his own at the Senior Bowl, but he did get burned a few times too. Also, his level of competition was well below most of the other kigher rated guards. This might turn out to be a home run pick, though I don’t think so. But there is an opportunity cost to this pick. Even the best guards are solid, not spectacular. I’ll be looking at the players taken after him and before the Pats second round pick. If Strange turns out to be solid, but some of those picks turn out to be real difference makers, especially the WRs then I will view it as a big miss especially because good solid guards can be found in mid to later rounds.
Johnny-come-latelies like you come in here and spew your about what YOU "buy" like it matters a hill of beans. IT DOESN'T. I saw you prattling mumbo jumbo in the Day 1 thread, but did you stop and look at the Day 2 thread at all? Or the Cole Strange Draft pick thread? If you had, you'd have seen the posts mentioning that that 3 other teams other than the Patriots had 1st round grades on Strange.

Kyle Shanahan is on RECORD as commenting the 49ers had a 1st round grade on Strange.



I take @Rob0729 and @Patsgofor4 as legit posters who don't feel the need to embellish or flat out lie.

NE, TB, TEN, SF.

Jim Nagy, former Pats scout who is also a Senior Bowl Advisor mentioned several times that over half the teams had at least a 2nd round grade on Strange. A far cry from the "he's only a 3rd round pick" BS that the Draftnicks were claiming.

BTW, how do you think Tampa Bay got the 33rd pick? They traded DOWN with Jacksonville for a 4th and 6th.

Strange got burned playing OUT OF POSITION at center. NOT guard. Not OT. And he was only burned on the initial two reps against Hall and Travis Jones. Something I acknowledged. The rest of the week, he stoned them in practices. It's one of the reasons that his stock soared.

What "higher rated guards"? The ones rated "HIGHER" by the "Draftnicks" who just go with generalizations and not team specifics? Name me ONE "Draftnick" that takes into consideration how the PATRIOTS evaluate players when it comes to the Draftnick putting together his click bait information for the masses to consume.

No. The level of competition wasn't "well below" others. It it no different than Logan Mankins coming from Fresno St when they were a part of the Western Athletic Conference. Or are you saying that Pick 29 and 32 are so significantly different that in one case it's a reach but not the other??

Opportunity cost? ROFLMAO. You fail to acknowledge that the Patriots picked up a 3rd and 4th round picks trading down to 29 to begin with. That must be figured in with the pick at 29. If you don't then you fail to understand the concept.
 

venecol

The FRG has a little ****
PatsFans.com Supporter
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
I do get your thought process and the moreI read about Strange the more I think he’ll be a good guard. I get that he held his own at the Senior Bowl, but he did get burned a few times too. Also, his level of competition was well below most of the other kigher rated guards.
I was wondering about the level of competition after hearing he only allowed 1 sack in 5 years or something like that and I've never heard of UT Chattanooga (Mocs) from the Southern Conference:
Western Carolina
Wofford
Mercer
ETSU
Furman
Samford
The Citadel
VMI

Aside from playing those teams, these are the other teams they played while Cole was there:
2018:
Tennesse Tech
UT Martin
So Carolina (L 9-49)
2019:
E Illinois
Jacksonville State
Tennessee (L 0-45)
James Madison
2020: only 5 games in Conf.
2021:
Austin Pey
North Alabama
Kentucky (L 23-28)
Western Carolina

So while he was there they faced stiff competition 3 times, got whalloped twice and put up a fight against Kentucky.

In 2021, these are the players from that conference that were part of NFL 53 man rosters (none of them played w/ Cole) drafted between 2011 to 2019:

Nick Williams, DE, Samford
Michael Pierce, DT, Samford
James Bradberry, CB, Samford
Keion Crossen, DB, Western Carolina
Jaquiski Tartt, S, Samford
Andre Roberts, WR, The Citadel
Dee Delaney, CB, The Citadel
Buster Skrine, CB, Chattanooga
Tae Davis, LB, Chattanooga
Dakota Dozier, OL, Furman
C.J. Board, WR, Chattanooga
Isaiah Mack, NT, Chattanooga

A lot of these guys are back-ups and have bounced around the league. Some are decent starters. But the point is there's so few of them. This season, 2 players came from So. Conf: Strange & Washington (5th). UGA had 15 players drafted this year alone!

Maybe Strange is a diamond in the rough or maybe he ends up like a lot of his predecessors. Who knows. We about to find out. Hopefully, he's the Terrel Owens of OL-men.
 

mgteich

PatsFans.com Veteran
PatsFans.com Supporter
.. Hopefully , Strange will be just the EMERGENY OC and that one of Russey, Hines or Shanahan will be the #2 OC with Ferentz banished to the Shadow roster never to be seen again.
Unfortunately, hope is not a plan.

I don't think that Bill will banish Ferentz because any of the three (Russey, Hines, Shanahan) will beat him out for the #2 OC spot.
Bill seems to trust Ferentz in this backup role. I do think that there will be veteran offensive linemen brought in. Perhaps one of them will replace Ferentz.
 

DaBruinz

Pats, B's, Sox
PatsFans.com Supporter
Unfortunately, hope is not a plan.

I don't think that Bill will banish Ferentz because any of the three (Russey, Hines, Shanahan) will beat him out for the #2 OC spot.
Bill seems to trust Ferentz in this backup role. I do think that there will be veteran offensive linemen brought in. Perhaps one of them will replace Ferentz.
People said that Andrews wouldn't make the team either.. Yet, he not only made the team, he became the starter. There's a good chance that Russey and Hines both make the team out of TC. But we'll see.
 

captain stone

Hall of Fame Poster
I don't think that Bill will banish Ferentz because any of the three (Russey, Hines, Shanahan) will beat him out for the #2 OC spot.
Bill seems to trust Ferentz in this backup role. I do think that there will be veteran offensive linemen brought in. Perhaps one of them will replace Ferentz.

It really, Really, REALLY shouldn't be this difficult to replace Ferentz... I mean c'mon... And did Hines ever start a game at Center while at LSU? He was Cushenberry's official backup, but when he left Hines didn't win the starting job there; he instead started at RG for the last two seasons...

If Hines doesn't become Center #2 by Opening Day, then I don't like this pick... They should've grabbed Jamaree Salyer or maybe Cade Mays at 183 and let the ****ing RB wait another 17 or 27 picks...or 62...
 

skinnydog

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Johnny-come-latelies like you come in here and spew your about what YOU "buy" like it matters a hill of beans. IT DOESN'T. I saw you prattling mumbo jumbo in the Day 1 thread, but did you stop and look at the Day 2 thread at all? Or the Cole Strange Draft pick thread? If you had, you'd have seen the posts mentioning that that 3 other teams other than the Patriots had 1st round grades on Strange.

Kyle Shanahan is on RECORD as commenting the 49ers had a 1st round grade on Strange.



I take @Rob0729 and @Patsgofor4 as legit posters who don't feel the need to embellish or flat out lie.

NE, TB, TEN, SF.

Jim Nagy, former Pats scout who is also a Senior Bowl Advisor mentioned several times that over half the teams had at least a 2nd round grade on Strange. A far cry from the "he's only a 3rd round pick" BS that the Draftnicks were claiming.

BTW, how do you think Tampa Bay got the 33rd pick? They traded DOWN with Jacksonville for a 4th and 6th.

Strange got burned playing OUT OF POSITION at center. NOT guard. Not OT. And he was only burned on the initial two reps against Hall and Travis Jones. Something I acknowledged. The rest of the week, he stoned them in practices. It's one of the reasons that his stock soared.

What "higher rated guards"? The ones rated "HIGHER" by the "Draftnicks" who just go with generalizations and not team specifics? Name me ONE "Draftnick" that takes into consideration how the PATRIOTS evaluate players when it comes to the Draftnick putting together his click bait information for the masses to consume.

No. The level of competition wasn't "well below" others. It it no different than Logan Mankins coming from Fresno St when they were a part of the Western Athletic Conference. Or are you saying that Pick 29 and 32 are so significantly different that in one case it's a reach but not the other??

Opportunity cost? ROFLMAO. You fail to acknowledge that the Patriots picked up a 3rd and 4th round picks trading down to 29 to begin with. That must be figured in with the pick at 29. If you don't then you fail to understand the concept.
Wow, you are sensitive to any criticism of the Pats, even fairly mild criticism. Maybe, put down the Pom poms for a bit. Johnny come lately? I’ve been around here for more than a decade. BTW I didn‘t criticism the trade down. There are players we did pass on and time will tell on those extra picks, but my question really after the draft had settled. Was whether it was good to go guard then WR or vice versa, even if it meant losing out on Strange and getting the second best guard on the Pats board. And the WR for comparison the Pats could have if they went WR first was Christian Watson then they still may have gotten Strange or their next rated guard.
 

Wozzy

In the Starting Line-Up
Mike Lombardi is correct with his draft recap and more people here should listen to his podcast. And he worked for Bill Walsh and Al Davis long before he worked for BB, so he has perspective beyond just being some Patriot's-centric mouthpiece.

ESPN had one guy on staff who worked in an NFL front office and they kept him on the sideline throughout the draft, they purposely make "draft experts" like Mel Kiper, and the other guys they pay a lot and promote as the arbiters of what is right and wrong about the draft. It's laughably misguided.

Mel Kiper has every player on his board, like every one. Malik Willis was his top ranked QB, we had to watch for three days as "Mel's Best Remaining Players" scrolled across the board and Malik's name was at the very top again and again and again.

I don't claim to be a draft expert, I love talking about it and researching players but in no way would I claim to be an expert. But what I know for sure is this... Malik Willis will never be an NFL QB. Don't get me wrong, some team will give him every opportunity to go out there and stink up the joint, but he will never be a good pro QB. Better prospects than him have tried.

If Wozzy was a GM, Malik Willis would not have even been on my big board... at all. The majority of media "experts" had him at the top of their list of prospects at QB, many had him going in the first round. Clownish... in a word.

"Experts" is a laughable term... a degree in broadcast journalism doesn't make one a football expert, a draft expert or even a broadcast journalism expert. Give me a break.

NFL big boards look nothing like media talking head boards, some players will never be NFL players no matter how good they were in college and aren't even on pro teams boards. Michael Sam was never going to be an NFL pro player, it didn't matter if he was the SEC DPOY, if he was a great story about inclusivity or whatever... he simply wasn't athletic enough, there was no chance. He wouldn't have been on my big board at all, despite where the experts say he should have gone. What a total load of crap media "draft experts" are.
 

Ochmed Jones

Pro Bowl Player
2021 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Bucky brooks needs to go the way of the dinosaur. That guy is worthless.

He brings nothing to the table and his film review is horrible. His analysis is shallower than a puddle.

No room for that guy in today’s world. Maybe he should apply for an opening in the jets scouting dept. I’m sure that, the worthless goddell, would give him a reference.
 

dreighver

In the Starting Line-Up
Bucky brooks needs to go the way of the dinosaur. That guy is worthless.

He brings nothing to the table and his film review is horrible. His analysis is shallower than a puddle.

No room for that guy in today’s world. Maybe he should apply for an opening in the jets scouting dept. I’m sure that, the worthless goddell, would give him a reference.

Hopefully you mean go the way of the dinosaur / no room for him ... in the football world?

Bucky Brooks is a terrible football analyst, but I certainly wouldn't wish death on him (or anyone) for providing lackluster football analysis.
 

VJCPatriot

Pro Bowl Player
Maybe Strange is a diamond in the rough or maybe he ends up like a lot of his predecessors. Who knows. We about to find out. Hopefully, he's the Terrel Owens of OL-men.

Ok so you're hoping that Strange turns out to be a Diva of an OL who destroys every locker room he sets foot in within 9-18 months time and asks for maximum salary while causing maximum headaches for his coach? Strange desires you have there...
 

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