DRAFT Chad Ryland - Round 4 - 112th overall

[DaBruinz]

Delusions? I posted a bunch of facts, which you didn't even read because you can't be bothered with those. It's a common trait of IBWT.

And yes, if UDFA is the equivalent of growing on a tree, then kickers do.


You're another one who doesn't bother with actual data. Your default position being IBWT. It's unbelievable that so many people still live on that side of the street.

No. You posted cherry-picked information and posted BS "conclusions" claiming them to be fact.
The reality is that you're hatred for Belichick is on display.

Unlike you, most everyone else bothers with ALL the data. They don't cherry-pick information to support some erroneous conclusion.

 

[DaBruinz]

Okay, I'm not going to get into a political (right and wrong) discussion because it's irrelevant to my point.

I followed this closely. Rohrweisser SAID he got the tat in high school and because of his love of the military, etc.
After that, there were Twitter threads all over the place showing him in college without the tat. I won't judge their veracity - I'm just telling you what happened on Twitter.



The Charlottesville "Jews will not replace us rally" was in 2017 - the unofficial security for those protesters were the 3%'ers, a group the anti-defamation league goes after all the time. Again, I'm offering no opinions of them/all of them/some of them here - just stating a fact.
Jemele Hill wasn't the only one going after Rohrweisser and also went after him hand-in-hand on a meta level, along with many other individuals and groups from the angle of the NFL being okay with him joining the league while blackballing Colin Kaepernick. Nobody wanted that brought out again. This happened happened. Whether or into you or I like it or not, it happened.


There were also tweets of Rohrweisser's praising Jordan Pederson and other far right-wingers (often white nationalist). There were also some people who knew him from college piling on and claiming that he knew exactly what the tat was and calling him explicitly racist against black people. Again, I cannot stress this enough or enough times, this reporting/rumormongering/whatever happened. Sounds a bit weird to me since so many of the other folks at Marshall said exactly the opposite. Truth, whichever way, dies on social media.


Bob Kraft doesn't live in a vacuum. Blue square is HIS cause.


So put it all together. I'll add that the controversy and the attacks on Justin started the day after the draft - kicking is all about concentration. He was devastated according to his former coach, whom he called, and who was worried about his state of mind. After Rohrweisser said he didn't approve of the 3%'ers, he started taking **** from the right just as badly. He was in a no-win situation over a stupid tattoo.


Rohrweisser, a 5th round pick, the first kicker taken in the draft, and with reportedly a huge leg, never kicked a ball for the Patriots in a game (there were no preseason games in 2020). He sat on the PS for a year - he had $318k guaranteed when he signed and counted 0 against the cap. They signed Folk back AFTER the controversy erupted, halfway through training camp.


Rohrweisser (and Folk!) was released right away after year end in March 2021. First kicker taken. Never kicked in any game live - no injuries. And at the point of release, with no other kickers on the Pats.


Do the math. You can bark at me all you want - seems lately, that's the only way you post. I'm making no judgments on Rohrweisser. I don't know the kid. I take him at his word with a shrug - by which I mean he had to say what he said, of course, to have any chance at a career. He didn't go out and attack anyone, or beat up a kid or rape a woman or anything like that, so it sucks that he's gone, but welcome to the world. He was never picked up by anyone else. Career over.


I stand by what I said: no one with a 3% tattoo was or is going to play for a team owned by Robert Kraft, who is heavily involved with the anti-defamation league and consider Charlottesville to be one of the darkest days in modern America.

Pound sand with your political garbage.

 

[crawhammer]

This is your answer every time you are wrong.
When the facts aren’t on your side, attack the person.
You are transparent.

And yes I will say siding more often with the greatest to ever hold the job is the correct side of the street to be on. You can’t see that because it conflicts with your agenda.

Oh brother. Did you want to have a conversation? I couldn't tell from this insightful reply: "You make an excellent case for trading up to get the right guy." I posted a bunch of data on drafted kickers which indicated why you shouldn't trade up for them or take them in earlier rounds. You didn't even look at the facts, not your style evidently. And I hardly go around attacking other posters personally. I may fire back at someone (@DaBruinz) who takes a shot at me first but that's about it.

You're the moron who filled up numerous pages with your garbage long before I chimed in. When @Ian takes the time to call you out on your garbage, you should probably take note. BTW, There was no tantruming on y part. That's you.

What garbage is @Ian calling me out on? I gave my opinion on a draft pick and I tried to justify that opinion with amble explanation. You went berserk calling me names and saying I've accomplished nothing in life. lol you sound like a lunatic.

You couldn't educate a kindergartner.

You're evidence of that.

Unlike you, most everyone else bothers with ALL the data. They don't cherry-pick information to support some erroneous conclusion.

Cherrypicked? My sample size was EVERY SINGLE player drafted over the last 23 years. I accounted for every kicker taken, all 0.8% of them.

 

[Steve102]

All this in a kicker thread.

 

[patsfanfromoversea]

All this in a kicker thread.

 

[Ring 6]

Oh brother. Did you want to have a conversation? I couldn't tell from this insightful reply: "You make an excellent case for trading up to get the right guy." I posted a bunch of data on drafted kickers which indicated why you shouldn't trade up for them or take them in earlier rounds. You didn't even look at the facts, not your style evidently. And I hardly go around attacking other posters personally. I may fire back at someone (@DaBruinz) who takes a shot at me first but that's about it.

Of course I looked at the facts, that’s why I said what I did. The hit rate is substantially higher. Your foolhardy “look this guy missed and 1 udfa succeeded so UDFAs are better” approach is much like your lazy approach to everything you post about here.
Your attacks are dismissing facts and opinion and and arguing the poster is a belichick rump swabbed. As I says when you can’t argue the facts, attack the messenger. It’s a tired old method for arrogant people who don’t really want to discuss things. If you can’t diffuse the argument, diminish the person making it. You are a textbook adherent to that.

 

[DaBruinz]

Oh brother. Did you want to have a conversation? I couldn't tell from this insightful reply: "You make an excellent case for trading up to get the right guy." I posted a bunch of data on drafted kickers which indicated why you shouldn't trade up for them or take them in earlier rounds. You didn't even look at the facts, not your style evidently. And I hardly go around attacking other posters personally. I may fire back at someone (@DaBruinz) who takes a shot at me first but that's about it.

You posted cherry-picked data. I used Mike Nugent as the example. Clearly that went over your head.
You attacked several people in this thread before I said one word. Clearly you don't even pay attention to your own posts.

I'm not you. I pay attention to ALL the facts. Not just the ones you decide to cherry pick because they suit your case.

What garbage is @Ian calling me out on? I gave my opinion on a draft pick and I tried to justify that opinion with amble explanation. You went berserk calling me names and saying I've accomplished nothing in life. lol you sound like a lunatic.

What garbage? Why don't you go back and READ his post. It's very RARE that Ian chimes in and address a person personally about their statements. I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times he's done it over the history of this board.

DRAFT - Chad Ryland - Round 4 - 112th overall

Keep it in context, Belichick traded up in the 4th round to select this guy. A kicker. NFL.com had him listed as an "priority undrafted free agent"... meaning no one was drafting this guy in the 4th round. Only one other kicker was taken after Ryland... by Green Bay, at the end of the 6th round...

www.patsfans.com

You have no clue what "beserk" looks like. I called you a moron. Echoing the sentiments of several others who'd also stated as much.

The lunatic is the guy posting on an NFL message board who absolutely hates the Coaching Staff while also knowing next to nothing about the actual game of football. That person is you.

You're evidence of that.

How so? I'm far more educated than a kindergartner. You just completely suck at supporting your biases without there being huge glaring holes in them that you could drive a Mack truck through.

Cherrypicked? My sample size was EVERY SINGLE player drafted over the last 23 years. I accounted for every kicker taken, all 0.8% of them.

It has nothing to do with "sample size". It has everything to do with the actual DATA you provided with that sample size. Not surprised that is beyond your comprehension. Clearly you have issues with actual data analysis.

 

[Kasmir]

Let me educate you on recent history of kickers in the NFL draft (2001-2023).

Love how you started in 2001 instead of 2000 to avoid including Janikowsi.

 

[Steve102]

Love how you started in 2001 instead of 2000 to avoid including Janikowsi.

Pick 17 of round 1 for those of you too young to remember. That's round one. ONE. They took P Shane Lechler at #142 that year too.

 

[crawhammer]

Of course I looked at the facts, that’s why I said what I did. The hit rate is substantially higher. Your foolhardy “look this guy missed and 1 udfa succeeded so UDFAs are better” approach is much like your lazy approach to everything you post about here.
Your attacks are dismissing facts and opinion and and arguing the poster is a belichick rump swabbed. As I says when you can’t argue the facts, attack the messenger. It’s a tired old method for arrogant people who don’t really want to discuss things. If you can’t diffuse the argument, diminish the person making it. You are a textbook adherent to that.

I'm presenting facts, not dismissing them. This is you just making **** up: "look this guy missed and 1 udfa succeeded so UDFAs are better." I went through the last 23 drafts, every player, and pulled out all of the kickers selected. Again, it wasn't a huge task, there have only been 48 kickers taken out of the overall 5890 players selected. 15 of the 48 played 1 season or less so the limited sample size dwindled fast. Only 10 of the 48 were taken in the 4th round or earlier. Moody and Ryland are unknowns but 5 of the remaining 8 completely sucked. That leaves 3 to consider. Nugent who was mediocre, never made a pro bowl, and never made a postseason kick of consequence. Kaeding who was decent but could only manage a FG% of 53% in the postseason. And Gostkowski, who was good, but I'll be damned if I can recall a clutch postseason FG. He did miss that very costly XPA in the 2015 AFCCG and he didn't exactly light it up in the last three SB's either.

 

[crawhammer]

Love how you started in 2001 instead of 2000 to avoid including Janikowsi.

LOL! ****ing horrible pick. 18 seasons and 1 pro bowl. 62nd all time in FG%. Sandwiched in between the immortals Joe Nedney (UDFA) and Zane Gonzalez (7th rd).

 

[crawhammer]

What garbage? Why don't you go back and READ his post. It's very RARE that Ian chimes in and address a person personally about their statements. I think I can count on 1 hand the number of times he's done it over the history of this board.

DRAFT - Chad Ryland - Round 4 - 112th overall

Keep it in context, Belichick traded up in the 4th round to select this guy. A kicker. NFL.com had him listed as an "priority undrafted free agent"... meaning no one was drafting this guy in the 4th round. Only one other kicker was taken after Ryland... by Green Bay, at the end of the 6th round...

www.patsfans.com

Seriously? You're a joke.

I get the point you’re making, but you’re sort of the master of claiming to be in the middle but you’re not. You’re 100% anti Bill, 100% anti Mac and 100% pro Brady. I love Tom as well and hated the decision to not keep him, but that was four years ago. Now we have Mac/Zappe or a player to be named later. It’s over.

“It is what it is” and I’m in no hurry to run Belichick out of here unless everyone quits on him. Because you never know if the next guy - even if it’s Mayo - is going to get get the job done as well or better. Everyone hopes so, but as we’ve seen, that might not be the case.

Like @Steve102 said, all that matters is whether or not they win. Every game gets us closer to change at some point. It’s going to come and none of may end up liking how things go, so no point in rushing it.

That's it? Like he reamed me out or something. Seriously, he even said he got my point. Then he said I claim "to be in the middle" when I'm not. As I replied to him, the problem with that characterization is I never claim to be in the middle of any of those larger debates (BB, Brady, and Mac). My side of those arguments is quite evident. As intended.

 

[DaBruinz]

Love how you started in 2001 instead of 2000 to avoid including Janikowsi.

Not only that. But he was sure quick to point out guys who's careers didn't last but makes no mention of longevity for guys like Nugent (16 years) or Gostkowski (15 years).

He also fails to mention that the reason Grammatica only played 4 years is because he tore his ACL and it never healed properly. It was a freak accident.

It's amazing how he was so quick to point out that only 0.8% of all draft picks from 2001-2023 were kickers, but he fails to mention how many UDFA players were signed during that period as well as how many of them were kickers. Or how many UDFA kickers were signed and failed to make it out of TC. Probably because that would actually put the comparison into perspective.. And he wonders why people say he cherry-picked his data.

 

[Joker]

Zippy The Pinhead-hammer....here's an item that dwarfs his intellectual capacity..a bag of beach sand

 

[DaBruinz]

Seriously? You're a joke.


That's it? Like he reamed me out or something. Seriously, he even said he got my point. Then he said I claim "to be in the middle" when I'm not. As I replied to him, the problem with that characterization is I never claim to be in the middle of any of those larger debates (BB, Brady, and Mac). My side of those arguments is quite evident. As intended.

No, Craw. YOU'RE the joke. Numerous people took you to task before I popped in here. Numerous people called you stupid, a moron, etc. Yet, you get your panties in a wad when I said it. And I then debunked your claims and garbage "analysis" because of how flawed it was.

The fact that IAN felt the need to come in and respond to your garbage is the point. You clearly didn't understand that he was admonishing you.

As I stated, you cherry picked the stats you posted. You did and you know you did. You decided to focus on irrelevent things like "Play-off games won" when you know that there is more to winning a play-off game than a kicker. Otherwise, you'd have done a PROPER comparison by including how many UDFA were signed from 2001-2023, how many of them were kickers, and how many of those kickers didn't even make it out of training camp.
Heck, the fact that you make zero mention beyond York as to how the kickers you named actually performed is just another way you cherry-picked information.

 

[Ian]

OK, enough, guys - let's move this along.

 

[Steve102]

 

[Ring 6]

I'm presenting facts, not dismissing them. This is you just making **** up: "look this guy missed and 1 udfa succeeded so UDFAs are better." I went through the last 23 drafts, every player, and pulled out all of the kickers selected. Again, it wasn't a huge task, there have only been 48 kickers taken out of the overall 5890 players selected. 15 of the 48 played 1 season or less so the limited sample size dwindled fast. Only 10 of the 48 were taken in the 4th round or earlier. Moody and Ryland are unknowns but 5 of the remaining 8 completely sucked. That leaves 3 to consider. Nugent who was mediocre, never made a pro bowl, and never made a postseason kick of consequence. Kaeding who was decent but could only manage a FG% of 53% in the postseason. And Gostkowski, who was good, but I'll be damned if I can recall a clutch postseason FG. He did miss that very costly XPA in the 2015 AFCCG and he didn't exactly light it up in the last three SB's either.

So? What do you think you have proven?
What % of non kickers selected on that part of the draft had successful careers?
What % of UDFA kickers had successful careers?
33/48 playing more than 1 season would seem to be an incredibly high hit rate compared to UDFAs. Considering the draft slots it is also probably a high hit rate for all positions.

Seems pretty clear that you showed the chances of a kicker sticking is substantially higher if they are drafted and drafted high.

Your bias taints your posts, you are not objective, as evidenced by a comment like “Nugent never won a playoff game” or harping on a guy who was one of the best kickers in the league by any unbiased criteria missing a PAT once.
If you really thought you had a point you would need to poison it with such silliness

 

[Ring 6]

No, Craw. YOU'RE the joke. Numerous people took you to task before I popped in here. Numerous people called you stupid, a moron, etc. Yet, you get your panties in a wad when I said it. And I then debunked your claims and garbage "analysis" because of how flawed it was.

The fact that IAN felt the need to come in and respond to your garbage is the point. You clearly didn't understand that he was admonishing you.

As I stated, you cherry picked the stats you posted. You did and you know you did. You decided to focus on irrelevent things like "Play-off games won" when you know that there is more to winning a play-off game than a kicker. Otherwise, you'd have done a PROPER comparison by including how many UDFA were signed from 2001-2023, how many of them were kickers, and how many of those kickers didn't even make it out of training camp.
Heck, the fact that you make zero mention beyond York as to how the kickers you named actually performed is just another way you cherry-picked information.

No one should be calling anyone stupid, moron or anything else. Discuss the point. Name calling is a signal you know you can’t win the argument.

 

[50-yard-line]

Pound sand with your political garbage.

Lol, LEARN TO READ.

Everything I said was just facts of what happened, not opinion, ergo, not "political."

My opinion: I didn't want the kid cut. I wanted him to compete for the job in 2021, preseason. He didn't hurt anyone; I don't give a rat's ass about his politics. He can kick a ball a mile.