DRAFT Chad Ryland - Round 4 - 112th overall

[Kasmir]

Crawdaddy, you're going to hate this one...



...as it makes the case for a good risk/return profile for both the K and P picks.

 

[crawhammer]

You aren’t tearing down the history of the team you are trying incessantly to tear down the architect.

The topic was the Ryland pick which is what I was talking about. You're bringing team history into it.

Where did I pay myself on the back? I simply said you are tiresome and I would normally just ignore you but the low hanging fruit of how bad your takes are deserves response.

My bad takes?... like deferring in OT with the GOAT QB is dumb, like benching your starting CB in the Super Bowl is dumb when he had taken 98% of snaps for the season, like the hail mary defense is dumb when you're facing a weak-armed QB from 70-yards away, like not kneeling down and calling a run play with 3 seconds left in a tied game is dumb, like moving on from Brady was a mistake, like Cam Newton would be a bum, like Mac looks mediocre, like the team would be 8-9 and miss the playoffs in 2022, like Belichick continues to prove he can't win as a head coach without Brady (0-10 now), like trading up for a K in the 4th round of the draft is dumb when the league is 59% UDFA kickers... you mean those takes?

The Patriots clearly considered him either the best or 2nd best kicker in the draft.

Hey something we can agree on. Now, so what? It doesn't justify trading up for him in the 4th round.

The fact that they took him in the 4th round indicates he is special.

No, it doesn't. It indicates nothing more than they thought he was worth selecting in that spot at a cost. We'll see if he's "special" which is going to be difficult to achieve considering nearly all kickers are not special. How many kickers in the NFL are special right now? 1 or 2. Chances are Ryland won't distinguish himself as a uniquely talented and productive K.

You continued to talk about the % of draft picks that make it and totally ignore that the % of UDFAs that make it is tremendously lower.

You continue to gloss over the fact that 59% of the kickers in the NFL last season were UDFA. There are many more UDFA kickers in the NFL than not. I went through all of the kickers (10) taken higher than the 5th round over the last 23 years... the results are thoroughly unimpressive.

 

[Ring 6]

The topic was the Ryland pick which is what I was talking about. You're bringing team history into it.


My bad takes?... like deferring in OT with the GOAT QB is dumb, like benching your starting CB in the Super Bowl is dumb when he had taken 98% of snaps for the season, like the hail mary defense is dumb when you're facing a weak-armed QB from 70-yards away, like not kneeling down and calling a run play with 3 seconds left in a tied game is dumb, like moving on from Brady was a mistake, like Cam Newton would be a bum, like Mac looks mediocre, like the team would be 8-9 and miss the playoffs in 2022, like Belichick continues to prove he can't win as a head coach without Brady (0-10 now), like trading up for a K in the 4th round of the draft is dumb when the league is 59% UDFA kickers... you mean those takes?


Hey something we can agree on. Now, so what? It doesn't justify trading up for him in the 4th round.


No, it doesn't. It indicates nothing more than they thought he was worth selecting in that spot at a cost. We'll see if he's "special" which is going to be difficult to achieve considering nearly all kickers are not special. How many kickers in the NFL are special right now? 1 or 2. Chances are Ryland won't distinguish himself as a uniquely talented and productive K.


You continue to gloss over the fact that 59% of the kickers in the NFL last season were UDFA. There are many more UDFA kickers in the NFL than not. I went through all of the kickers (10) taken higher than the 5th round over the last 23 years... the results are thoroughly unimpressive.

You brought the history of the team into it not me.

Yes your takes are bad. Deferring in OT was a decision that didn’t work. He’s made plenty that have. The intentional safety would be a good example here since both were unconventional gambles. Butler was benched because he didn’t prepare well for the game. As happens many times, and as any team expecting discipline would consider. Then you add a couple of play decisions as if the guy with the best results ever makes more than others. Brady moved on from the patriots, not the other way around. Otherwise you are just blabbering. Citing a handful of negatives in 23 years is indeed a bad take when you think it’s a valid analysis

Again, you fail to have any clue how this works. The patriots needed 1 K. When you need 1 K the best plan is to take the one you think is best. Arguing that you gave a better chance finding a good one by waiting until the best ones are drafted and them competing against the other teams to sign the undrafted and hoping you luck out is dumb. And for the 50th time, you ignore that the success rate of UDFA Ks is minuscule compared to the success rate of drafted K. You know that and just don’t want to be honest about it.

 

[Zuma]

Again because I like to hear myself speak…I hated the pick not because it was a 4th…but because of moving up. I ****ing hated that. That said…we needed a kicker and if he is close to what we had with Gost…it was a very good pick.

 

[Ring 6]

In the last 10 years (2013-2022) 17 Kickers were drafted. Last season 16 of 32 teams started the season with K who were drafted. Looks to be like drafting kickers works.
7 of the last 9 drafted Ks are in the league.

 

[Wozzy]

Boy… if this kid becomes a multi time All-Pro down the road like Ghost (4th round pick) this thread will provide a lot of laughs.

Of course the negative nancy jokers will just say “value” and ignore how dumb they sounded… but it will have been dumb nonetheless.

 

[DaBruinz]

Again because I like to hear myself speak…I hated the pick not because it was a 4th…but because of moving up. I ****ing hated that. That said…we needed a kicker and if he is close to what we had with Gost…it was a very good pick.

So. Let me get this straight. You hated the pick because it meant the Pats only added 12 players instead of 13? Forget about the fact that they likely found out that GB wanted Ryland. Forget about the fact that the kid is one of the best kickers in the nation. But you hated the pick because they traded pick 184 to move up 8 spots and making sure they get the guy they wanted? *SMH*

 

[JarOfMayo51]

The point is the majority of NFL executives are content with UDFA kickers. I got pushback on not knowing what teams draft boards look like. Well, evidently they don't include kickers very often (if at all). The most successful K currently in the NFL (Tucker) is an UDFA. The highest draft pick (York) ranked 30th in FG% last season. Breakdown everyone in between if you think it's relevant. I can tell you that in 2022 there were 5 UDFA K brought into NFL camps. Teams aren't bringing in hoards of UDFA kickers but it's most commonly how they're finding their kicker. Drafting one in the 4th round or earlier is exceptionally rare and again only 1 rostered K in 2022 was taken earlier than the 5th round.

Think about trying to justify trading up in the 4th round for a kicker when 1 of 32 kickers in the NFL were taken in the 4th round. 1.

The Patriots also became the first team in 23 years to draft a K and a P in their draft. So brilliant that literally no one else thinks to do it.

i cant believe you're still going on about a 4th rounder used on K

We had like four 4th rounders, and we have a major need at kicker, in a draft where we had TWELVE draft picks

You need to get over it

 

[JarOfMayo51]

Didn’t we get Nick Folk as a free agent and let go the guy we drafted in 2021 in the fourth round? And Nick has been wonderful. Not the strongest leg but reliable.

"the guy" we drafted in the fourth round was Stephen Ghostkowski, who played for 14 years and became the Patriot's all time leading scorer, and was more accurate than Adam Vinietieri. He was better than Adam V by a lot, he just didn't have those iconic kicks from the start of the dynasty in the snow, and he would probably still be kicking for us if he didnt get injured

It was an absurdly high value pick that worked wonders for this franchise and helped them win some superbowls

If Ryland has half the career Ghostkowski did this would still be a good pick

 

[JarOfMayo51]

were both gifted by the Almighty with leg power one sees only in every other generation

even more reason to use a mid round pick on a kicker you feel good about, in a draft where you have 12 of picks that will not all make the team

 

[BritPat]

Boy… if this kid becomes a multi time All-Pro down the road like Ghost (4th round pick) this thread will provide a lot of laughs.

Of course the negative nancy jokers will just say “value” and ignore how dumb they sounded… but it will have been dumb nonetheless.

Combined with a comment about they could have taken "Player X" who they knew would turn All Pro, but unfortunately neglected to mention at the time and that they don't need to prove anyway.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

You continue to gloss over the fact that 59% of the kickers in the NFL last season were UDFA

and there has been a lot of REALLY BAD kicking in the NFL over the last couple years, games have been won and lost on missed extra points more times than I have fingers to count

If Ryland works out, this is now something the team doesn't have to worry about for 10+ years....

Kicking field goals and XPs is a very important aspect of football and winning games. Stephen Ghostkowski was a 4th rounder and he was unbelievably productive.. if they could do that draft over, he would be worth drafting in the 2nd round the way his career panned out (2nd round is highest i would ever draft a specialist, with hindsight.. but the Raiders have spent 1st rounders on a Kicker and a Punter before)

 

[Wozzy]

Combined with a comment about they could have taken "Player X" who they knew would turn All Pro, but unfortunately neglected to mention at the time and that they don't need to prove anyway.

My only criticism of this site is the search engine, it's crap. Otherwise we could plug "Chad Ryland" into the search engine years from now if he's a wild success and read all the stupid comments.

I remember people arguing with me Julian Edelman isn't talented enough and can't stay healthy, the James White wasn't playing so he must suck, that Stephon Gilmore was a massive overpay in 2017 preseason... all great takes.

 

[Ring 6]

My only criticism of this site is the search engine, it's crap. Otherwise we could plug "Chad Ryland" into the search engine years from now if he's a wild success and read all the stupid comments.

I remember people arguing with me Julian Edelman isn't talented enough and can't stay healthy, the James White wasn't playing so he must suck, that Stephon Gilmore was a massive overpay in 2017 preseason... all great takes.

This is why whining is a profitable industry.
The odds of a 4th round pick, any 4th round pick turning out excellent are low.
So if you complain and he turns out to be the average of a guy picked at that point of the draft, you can say you were right. It’s a false equivalence. The bar that is being used is long career, all pro awards, etc.
Then if the guy turns into a stud your whining is just forgotten.
Does anyone remember the people who argued that we wasted pick #199 in 2000?

 

[Zuma]

So. Let me get this straight. You hated the pick because it meant the Pats only added 12 players instead of 13? Forget about the fact that they likely found out that GB wanted Ryland. Forget about the fact that the kid is one of the best kickers in the nation. But you hated the pick because they traded pick 184 to move up 8 spots and making sure they get the guy they wanted? *SMH*

Yep

…we needed a kicker and if he is close to what we had with Gost…it was a very good pick.

 

[BritPat]

My only criticism of this site is the search engine, it's crap. Otherwise we could plug "Chad Ryland" into the search engine years from now if he's a wild success and read all the stupid comments.

I remember people arguing with me Julian Edelman isn't talented enough and can't stay healthy, the James White wasn't playing so he must suck, that Stephon Gilmore was a massive overpay in 2017 preseason... all great takes.

Ha ha. To be fair, if the search engine wasn't garbage I'd be able to live off my Jerod Mayo, Sebastien Vollmer and Antonio Brown draft binky status' for years

 

[DaBruinz]

Yep

Go eat a Snickers....

 

[Zuma]

Ha ha. To be fair, if the search engine wasn't garbage I'd be able to live off my Jerod Mayo, Sebastien Vollmer and Antonio Brown draft binky status' for years

The eyeglass search is garbage. This one isn’t bad….

Search

www.patsfans.com

 

[Zuma]

Go eat a Snickers....

Ok

 

[crawhammer]

Yes your takes are bad.

You want to rehash all of this again?

Deferring in OT was a decision that didn’t work.

My take is it was a dumb, inexcusable decision. You're content with the softer "it didn't work." They lost the game as a result. 1 of 3 games that BB's coaching completely screwed up that one season (2015). They had a Super Bowl caliber team in 2015, it didn't work, because the head coach got in the way.

Butler was benched because he didn’t prepare well for the game.

According to who? We don't have the actual reason because everyone is so tight-lipped about it but Patricia, Belichick and Malcolm are all on record stating Malcolm was "ready to go" for that game. Malcolm's absence from the defense cost them the game. Period.

Then you add a couple of play decisions as if the guy with the best results ever makes more than others.

You said my takes suck so I was pointing out a few instances where my takes were dead on. Now you're moving onto BB has made plenty of good decisions as well... that's great, obviously, but it doesn't eliminate the bad ones or make my takes irrelevant.

Citing a handful of negatives in 23 years is indeed a bad take when you think it’s a valid analysis

It's valid when you're picking on individual takes. And you're ignoring the bigger picture here, which is Belichick has been a head coach in the NFL for 28 seasons, 18 with Brady, and 10 without. All of his success, every ounce, is in those 18 seasons with Brady (17 division titles and 9 SB appearances). 7 of the other 10 seasons finished with a losing record, none resulted in a division title, and only 1 playoff win in a decade. So the take that gets me in hot water here, the one that's unequivocally supported by the record, is Belichick the GOAT HC can't win without Brady.

Again, you fail to have any clue how this works. The patriots needed 1 K. When you need 1 K the best plan is to take the one you think is best.

Probably Moody, who they didn't take, so FAIL.

Arguing that you gave a better chance finding a good one by waiting until the best ones are drafted and them competing against the other teams to sign the undrafted and hoping you luck out is dumb.

Not according to the 19 teams who rolled into the 2022 season with an UDFA kicker. Must be a lot of dumb NFL executives.

And for the 50th time, you ignore that the success rate of UDFA Ks is minuscule compared to the success rate of drafted K. You know that and just don’t want to be honest about it.

What rate are you talking about? Do you have a number? Show me.

FG% leaders for the 2022 season (top 10):

95.5% - ****er - UDFA
94.3% - Pineiro - UDFA
93.5% - Fairbairn - UDFA
93.3% - Gay - 5th round
91.9% - Meyers - UDFA
91.9% - Carlson - 5th round
91.3% - Santos - UDFA
90.6% - Maher - UDFA
90.6% - Gano - UDFA
88.0% - Prater - UDFA

Hello!! 8 of the top 10 in FG% are UDFA.