DRAFT Chad Ryland - Round 4 - 112th overall

[DaBruinz]

Lol, LEARN TO READ.

Everything I said was just facts of what happened, not opinion, ergo, not "political."

My opinion: I didn't want the kid cut. I wanted him to compete for the job in 2021, preseason. He didn't hurt anyone; I don't give a rat's ass about his politics. He can kick a ball a mile.

I read just fine. The problem is that everything you posted wasn't "facts". But not surprising you think so. Don't bother responding with any more of your ignorance. None of us want to hear it.

 

[Kasmir]

I read just fine. The problem is that everything you posted wasn't "facts". But not surprising you think so. Don't bother responding with any more of your ignorance. None of us want to hear it.

LOL yeah I hadn't realized until his email that Jordan Peterson was considered by some to be a Nazi and/or white supremacist. Live and unlearn.

Looks like all political speech is hate speech to someone and doesn't belong here...

 

[50-yard-line]

I read just fine. The problem is that everything you posted wasn't "facts". But not surprising you think so. Don't bother responding with any more of your ignorance. None of us want to hear it.

Like I said, learn to read. Everything I posted is currently verifiable - want to show me where I was wrong - I'm your Huckleberry and you'll look really stupid. If you can't differentiate between me simply reporting what was happening (the Tweets are still there) and me saying the Tweets were correct (I specifically said I wasn't verifying anything in them), then maybe YOU should take a step back and reconsider.


Rohrweisser never got a chance, in my opinion because of the "controversy," and that's a shame. If you don't agree with that, feel free to argue., but please spare me your internet spine.


Otherwise, you STFU. All you do is denigrate and insult lately.

 

[Sicilian]

All this in a kicker thread.

Can kicker threads become the new Lily threads? Feels like there would be more value in that than what we've gotten...

 

[Steve102]

Can kicker threads become the new Lily threads? Feels like there would be more value in that than what we've gotten...

 

[State]

I have no issues with picking a kicker this early considering this lackluster draft class.

You don’t want to keep Mac upright? Because Dante would have done much with LT Carter Warren at 120 that we gave away on this dubious move.

This helped save the Jets draft. In ten years it’ll be interesting to compare Broderick Jones’s and Carter Warren’s careers.

Moving up to get a kicker is generally not the best move.

 

[DaBruinz]

I'm presenting facts, not dismissing them. This is you just making **** up: "look this guy missed and 1 udfa succeeded so UDFAs are better." I went through the last 23 drafts, every player, and pulled out all of the kickers selected. Again, it wasn't a huge task, there have only been 48 kickers taken out of the overall 5890 players selected. 15 of the 48 played 1 season or less so the limited sample size dwindled fast. Only 10 of the 48 were taken in the 4th round or earlier. Moody and Ryland are unknowns but 5 of the remaining 8 completely sucked. That leaves 3 to consider. Nugent who was mediocre, never made a pro bowl, and never made a postseason kick of consequence. Kaeding who was decent but could only manage a FG% of 53% in the postseason. And Gostkowski, who was good, but I'll be damned if I can recall a clutch postseason FG. He did miss that very costly XPA in the 2015 AFCCG and he didn't exactly light it up in the last three SB's either.

Wrong again. You posted names. Then you posted data that only helped your case.
- You purposely ignored data about the longevity of 2 players because it hurt your case.
- You purposely ignored data about how many UDFAs were signed during that period because you know it hurts your case
- You purposely ignored data about how many UDFA Kickers were CUT during TC because you know it hurts your case.

You didn't make an apples to apples comparison, but you sure as hell leaped to a conclusion that could only be done by making said apples to apple comparison. In fact, the you didn't bother to even research if the picks used were original picks or if the picks were a result of trades yet you make that distinction in your "conclusion" further shows how poor of a comparison you did.

You threw up a lot of useless information (aka Red herrings) in hopes that people who be enamored by it and not see just how poor your argument really is. For instance, you slam Nugent as "mediocre" because he played on crappy teams that never made the play-offs during his career. In fact, you imply that it was because of Nugent that those teams didn't make it.

 

[Ring 6]

You don’t want to keep Mac upright? Because Dante would have done much with LT Carter Warren at 120 that we gave away on this dubious move.

This helped save the Jets draft. In ten years it’ll be interesting to compare Broderick Jones’s and Carter Warren’s careers.

Moving up to get a kicker is generally not the best move.

Carter Warren lol

 

[crawhammer]

@DaBruinz just can't let it go. Have to get the last word. Get in a few more cheap shots lol. Fine, I'll continue to play along.

No, Craw. YOU'RE the joke. Numerous people took you to task before I popped in here. Numerous people called you stupid, a moron, etc.

Blah blah blah... stop trying to justify your unpleasant vitriol by dragging other people into it. And reiterating that you think I'm a moron in every post is superfluous... I'm not calling you a douchebag in every post. It's self-evident.

The fact that IAN felt the need to come in and respond to your garbage is the point. You clearly didn't understand that he was admonishing you.

It's Ian's forum, he can intervene however and whenever. I've been "admonished" by Ian before, sometimes falsely, so I know what how it reads, and in this case he was not admonishing me. Ian wants civil debate, with members maintaining a requisite degree of respect for one another, and certainly I'm no role model for this, but I try to refrain from specific personal attacks, however you on the hand, it seems to be the focus of your messages.

As I stated, you cherry picked the stats you posted. You did and you know you did. You decided to focus on irrelevent things like "Play-off games won" when you know that there is more to winning a play-off game than a kicker. Otherwise, you'd have done a PROPER comparison by including how many UDFA were signed from 2001-2023, how many of them were kickers, and how many of those kickers didn't even make it out of training camp.
Heck, the fact that you make zero mention beyond York as to how the kickers you named actually performed is just another way you cherry-picked information.

No matter what I provide, you'll call it cherry-picking. If Ryland was an UDFA then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Belichick drafted him, in the 4th round, after trading up. Those are facts. I made a comparison of kickers that were drafted (like Ryland) and broke down the round selected percentage and then went over the only other 9 kickers that were taken in the 4th round or earlier over the last 23 years. It's relevant comparison to Ryland specifically.

- You purposely ignored data about the longevity of 2 players because it hurt your case.

No, I didn't. You want a full bio on everybody? I didn't think I had to specify the exact length of Nugent's career. We all know he had a long NFL career, especially if you include the last 5 years when he was so "valuable" that he bounced around with 6 different teams in short spurts, all the while sucking. Nugent is the highest drafted K in the last 23 years and he's an irrelevant footnote (for that distinction). In his case, he didn't justify the 2nd round pick in the slightest.

I suppose Gostkowski is the other guy you're referring to. Again, we all know who he is and how long he played. So his longevity is common knowledge, I don't need to specify it.

- You purposely ignored data about how many UDFAs were signed during that period because you know it hurts your case

Se above explanation.

Also, I add this... breakdown of all 32 NFL kickers from 2022:

1st round 0
2nd round 0
3rd round 0
4th round 1 (3%)
5th round 5 (16%)
6th round 4 (13%)
7th round 3 (9%)
UDFA 19 (59%)

This is a snapshot of what NFL executives think of kickers and their draft value. 19 teams, a whopping majority of 59%, found their kicker through UDFA. Only 1 measly team found their (30th ranked) kicker in the 4th round or earlier. Yet you want everyone to believe that Belichick had to trade up for a kicker in the 4th round because Ryland was supposedly a highly sought after commodity despite 97% of the teams being content with a kicker taken in the 5th round or later or most commonly as an UDFA.

- You purposely ignored data about how many UDFA Kickers were CUT during TC because you know it hurts your case.

Bad take by you. Again.

 

[Steve102]

 

[rochrist]

@DaBruinz just can't let it go. Have to get the last word. Get in a few more cheap shots lol. Fine, I'll continue to play along.

No more self-awareness than a dog licking its own as***le.

 

[Ring 6]

@DaBruinz just can't let it go. Have to get the last word. Get in a few more cheap shots lol. Fine, I'll continue to play along.


Blah blah blah... stop trying to justify your unpleasant vitriol by dragging other people into it. And reiterating that you think I'm a moron in every post is superfluous... I'm not calling you a douchebag in every post. It's self-evident.


It's Ian's forum, he can intervene however and whenever. I've been "admonished" by Ian before, sometimes falsely, so I know what how it reads, and in this case he was not admonishing me. Ian wants civil debate, with members maintaining a requisite degree of respect for one another, and certainly I'm no role model for this, but I try to refrain from specific personal attacks, however you on the hand, it seems to be the focus of your messages.


No matter what I provide, you'll call it cherry-picking. If Ryland was an UDFA then we wouldn't be having this discussion. Belichick drafted him, in the 4th round, after trading up. Those are facts. I made a comparison of kickers that were drafted (like Ryland) and broke down the round selected percentage and then went over the only other 9 kickers that were taken in the 4th round or earlier over the last 23 years. It's relevant comparison to Ryland specifically.


No, I didn't. You want a full bio on everybody? I didn't think I had to specify the exact length of Nugent's career. We all know he had a long NFL career, especially if you include the last 5 years when he was so "valuable" that he bounced around with 6 different teams in short spurts, all the while sucking. Nugent is the highest drafted K in the last 23 years and he's an irrelevant footnote (for that distinction). In his case, he didn't justify the 2nd round pick in the slightest.

I suppose Gostkowski is the other guy you're referring to. Again, we all know who he is and how long he played. So his longevity is common knowledge, I don't need to specify it.


Se above explanation.

Also, I add this... breakdown of all 32 NFL kickers from 2022:

1st round 0
2nd round 0
3rd round 0
4th round 1 (3%)
5th round 5 (16%)
6th round 4 (13%)
7th round 3 (9%)
UDFA 19 (59%)

This is a snapshot of what NFL executives think of kickers and their draft value. 19 teams, a whopping majority of 59%, found their kicker through UDFA. Only 1 measly team found their (30th ranked) kicker in the 4th round or earlier. Yet you want everyone to believe that Belichick had to trade up for a kicker in the 4th round because Ryland was supposedly a highly sought after commodity despite 97% of the teams being content with a kicker taken in the 5th round or later or most commonly as an UDFA.


Bad take by you. Again.

If you respond back to him then that would mean you need to get the last word, no?

What are the numbers for success rate in each of those rounds?
If 13 drafted kickers currently on rosters came from 20 draft choices and 19 UDFAs came from 100 UDFA signings, that is a critical factor in determining whether drafting is more successful than not drafting.

 

[crawhammer]

What are the numbers for success rate in each of those rounds?
If 13 drafted kickers currently on rosters came from 20 draft choices and 19 UDFAs came from 100 UDFA signings, that is a critical factor in determining whether drafting is more successful than not drafting.

The point is the majority of NFL executives are content with UDFA kickers. I got pushback on not knowing what teams draft boards look like. Well, evidently they don't include kickers very often (if at all). The most successful K currently in the NFL (Tucker) is an UDFA. The highest draft pick (York) ranked 30th in FG% last season. Breakdown everyone in between if you think it's relevant. I can tell you that in 2022 there were 5 UDFA K brought into NFL camps. Teams aren't bringing in hoards of UDFA kickers but it's most commonly how they're finding their kicker. Drafting one in the 4th round or earlier is exceptionally rare and again only 1 rostered K in 2022 was taken earlier than the 5th round.

Think about trying to justify trading up in the 4th round for a kicker when 1 of 32 kickers in the NFL were taken in the 4th round. 1.

The Patriots also became the first team in 23 years to draft a K and a P in their draft. So brilliant that literally no one else thinks to do it.

 

[Ring 6]

The point is the majority of NFL executives are content with UDFA kickers. I got pushback on not knowing what teams draft boards look like. Well, evidently they don't include kickers very often (if at all). The most successful K currently in the NFL (Tucker) is an UDFA. The highest draft pick (York) ranked 30th in FG% last season. Breakdown everyone in between if you think it's relevant. I can tell you that in 2022 there were 5 UDFA K brought into NFL camps. Teams aren't bringing in hoards of UDFA kickers but it's most commonly how they're finding their kicker. Drafting one in the 4th round or earlier is exceptionally rare and again only 1 rostered K in 2022 was taken earlier than the 5th round.

Think about trying to justify trading up in the 4th round for a kicker when 1 of 32 kickers in the NFL were taken in the 4th round. 1.

The Patriots also became the first team in 23 years to draft a K and a P in their draft. So brilliant that literally no one else thinks to do it.

No that isn’t the point. The point is that the patriots needed a K so what is the best chance of getting the best one.
You are comparing the success RATE of drafted K to the amount of successes of underaged K. It’s Apples to oranges.

If only 50% of drafted Ks make it but 10% of UDFAs make it, that is the relevant statistic. The patriots won’t have all of the drafted K or all of the UDFAs. They have no right to the UDFAs and even if there are good ones there is no reason to believe they would get that one.

Your approach does not fit the act of getting a K for your team this year. Your approach says if you ignore the draft you can find someone off the street but no telling if they will be any good or not.
If you need a K the right and intelligent thing to do is find the one you want and draft him. The wrong thing to do is say other trans have UDFA K and some don’t suck so let’s close our eyes and hope.

Ultimately this is a foolish discussion and just another way for you to spew your hatred toward the team. It has gotten very old.
If your approach wasn’t so easily ripped to shreds I would just annoy you, but you know the thing with low hanging fruit….

 

[50-yard-line]

@DaBruinz

Se above explanation.

Also, I add this... breakdown of all 32 NFL kickers from 2022:

1st round 0
2nd round 0
3rd round 0
4th round 1 (3%)
5th round 5 (16%)
6th round 4 (13%)
7th round 3 (9%)
UDFA 19 (59%)

This is a snapshot of what NFL executives think of kickers and their draft value. 19 teams, a whopping majority of 59%, found their kicker through UDFA. Only 1 measly team found their (30th ranked) kicker in the 4th round or earlier. Yet you want everyone to believe that Belichick had to trade up for a kicker in the 4th round because Ryland was supposedly a highly sought after commodity despite 97% of the teams being content with a kicker taken in the 5th round or later or most commonly as an UDFA.


Bad take by you. Again.

The kicking game has changed quite a bit in the last few years. Many of the kickers in the league now were in the league before extra points went to the 15, for example, since kickers who prove themselves at an NFL level typically have long careers. Kickers have the highest average length of service in the league, with QBs second by a large margin and everyone else WAY behind.

The new kickoff rules have changed the way some teams play the kick - the Pats, for example, often go to high kicks to the goal line by design - and did so even when Bailey could kick almost everything through the end zone. Ryland does this. He kicks high and hanging end-over-end rainbows. I don't know about many of the others, but I do know that Ryland's kickoffs are what BB asked Bailey to do. Also, translating to the NFL game for many kickers means kicking higher (or getting blocked). Ryland seems okay there.


Also, the Pats draft this year was THICK, the UDFAs THIN, so just think of some of the picks post rd-3 as UDFAs if it makes you feel better.
EDIT: Also, given your last point, 17 kickers have been drafted since the rule change in 2015. Things have changed.

 

[State]

Drafting specialists is generally a waste of time. Some people are exceptions like the great Morten Andersen. I hope this Chad fella is also one of them.

Didn’t we get Nick Folk as a free agent and let go the guy we drafted in 2021 in the fourth round? And Nick has been wonderful. Not the strongest leg but reliable.

There are more Nick Folks out there than you realize.

Many of you are too young to remember a wonderful kicker and great bloke from the late 70s early 80s who approached the team and successfully tried out.

John Smith (placekicker) - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

John Smith and Morten Andersen. Two of the great ones. Nick Folk, too.

PS. I saw Morten Andersen kick the ball through the uprights—on a kickoff in Spartan Stadium, which he routinely did. That’s some kind of leg. He’s worth a fourth-rounder.

He and the late punter Reggie Roby, sixth-round pick like Beranger — died at 43 of a heart attack! — were both gifted by the Almighty with leg power one sees only in every other generation. RIP, Reggie Roby.

 

[crawhammer]

Ultimately this is a foolish discussion and just another way for you to spew your hatred toward the team. It has gotten very old.

Boo!! Lazy take. Unnecessary. Stick to the topic. I'm criticizing the trade/pick. I'm not trying to tear down the history of the franchise, the majority of which I love.

If your approach wasn’t so easily ripped to shreds I would just annoy you, but you know the thing with low hanging fruit…

This also is useless gibberish. And you sound kinda foolish patting yourself on the back for attacking so-called "low hanging fruit."

No that isn’t the point. The point is that the patriots needed a K so what is the best chance of getting the best one.

You're confusing my point with your point. I've stated my point.

I suppose you're claiming success for the team because they prioritized a K and got one. You also suggest they wanted to maximize their chances of getting the best one, who primarily was considered to be Moody. Who did the Patriots have as their top rated K? I don't know but you can't just consider it in a vacuum. That's where the data and trends come into play. NFL teams are not rostering kickers taken higher than the 5th round.

So if kickers only represent 0.8% of all players drafted, and only 3% of kickers (i.e. 1) in the 2022 NFL season were taken higher than the 5th round, and 59% were UDFA, then trading up for one in the 4th round (when you have other needs too) is a bad decision.

I've said the same thing in 15 slightly different ways. Now if Ryland is an all pro and kicking game-winning FGs in the postseason then you can remind me of what I said and take your victory lap. But chances are Ryland will not distinguish himself from about 24 other NFL kickers who represent about the same at best moderate contribution to their team's success. And 59% of those guys are UDFA.

 

[Ring 6]

Boo!! Lazy take. Unnecessary. Stick to the topic. I'm criticizing the trade/pick. I'm not trying to tear down the history of the franchise, the majority of which I love.


This also is useless gibberish. And you sound kinda foolish patting yourself on the back for attacking so-called "low hanging fruit."


You're confusing my point with your point. I've stated my point.

I suppose you're claiming success for the team because they prioritized a K and got one. You also suggest they wanted to maximize their chances of getting the best one, who primarily was considered to be Moody. Who did the Patriots have as their top rated K? I don't know but you can't just consider it in a vacuum. That's where the data and trends come into play. NFL teams are not rostering kickers taken higher than the 5th round.

So if kickers only represent 0.8% of all players drafted, and only 3% of kickers (i.e. 1) in the 2022 NFL season were taken higher than the 5th round, and 59% were UDFA, then trading up for one in the 4th round (when you have other needs too) is a bad decision.

I've said the same thing in 15 slightly different ways. Now if Ryland is an all pro and kicking game-winning FGs in the postseason then you can remind me of what I said and take your victory lap. But chances are Ryland will not distinguish himself from about 24 other NFL kickers who represent about the same at best moderate contribution to their team's success. And 59% of those guys are UDFA.

You aren’t tearing down the history of the team you are trying incessantly to tear down the architect.

Where did I pay myself on the back? I simply said you are tiresome and I would normally just ignore you but the low hanging fruit of how bad your takes are deserves response.

The Patriots clearly considered him either the best or 2nd best kicker in the draft.
They got who they wanted. This players career will be unaffected by players that came before them and where they were or weren’t picked. They got their first or 2nd choice. If they waited for a UDFA maybe it would have been their 10th or 20th, who knows.
The fact that they took him in the 4th round indicates he is special. Your argument is that few kickers are worthy of being selected so high, so that must mean none are, which is ridiculous.
You continued to talk about the % of draft picks that make it and totally ignore that the % of UDFAs that make it is tremendously lower.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

You don’t want to keep Mac upright? Because Dante would have done much with LT Carter Warren at 120 that we gave away on this dubious move.

And yet he still passed on Warren not only to take Ryland, but also Andrews and Sow. For whatever reason, he didn't think that highly of Warren.

 

[Huckleberry1]

I have no words for this move… Just typical Bill Belichick… No one can even remotely understand what he’s doing here

He’s getting the guy he wants, that isn’t hard to understand.