Celtics trade Isaiah Thomas, Brooklyn 2018 pick & players for Kyrie Irving

[captain stone]

The chances the Brooklyn pick turns into a player even close to Kyries talent is less than 5% I'd say

IT getting old and in final year of deal

What's the issue?

The Crooklyn pick, i.e.: The Final Piece, is the issue.

In a draft that should yield multiple starting-caliber (if not All-Star-caliber) big men,
even someone who has fecked-up as many drafts as Danny has, starting in 2008
and continuing practically unabated since then, couldn't screw it up.

He will now instead pay Irving in one season what he would've paid that 1st-rounder for the entire length of his rookie contract, which would've provided him the flexibility to add more pieces at the trade deadline and following off-season.

Once again, Danny is back to having Zero prospects at the 4/5 in the pipeline for 2018 and beyond. And who is going to rebound all of Jalen Brown's, Marcus Smart's, and Terry Rozier's misses? Uncle Al Horford, the 3-point shooter?

 

[ViperGTS]

The Crooklyn pick, i.e.: The Final Piece, is the issue.

In a draft that should yield multiple starting-caliber (if not All-Star-caliber) big men,
even someone who has fecked-up as many drafts as Danny has, starting in 2008
and continuing practically unabated since then, couldn't screw it up.

He will now instead pay Irving in one season what he would've paid that 1st-rounder for the entire length of his rookie contract, which would've provided him the flexibility to add more pieces at the trade deadline and following off-season.

Once again, Danny is back to having Zero prospects at the 4/5 in the pipeline for 2018 and beyond. And who is going to rebound all of Jalen Brown's, Marcus Smart's, and Terry Rozier's misses? Uncle Al Horford, the 3-point shooter?

Tatum will be grabbing a sh*t ton of rebounds.

 

[patsfan13]

The Crooklyn pick, i.e.: The Final Piece, is the issue.

In a draft that should yield multiple starting-caliber (if not All-Star-caliber) big men,
even someone who has fecked-up as many drafts as Danny has, starting in 2008
and continuing practically unabated since then, couldn't screw it up.

He will now instead pay Irving in one season what he would've paid that 1st-rounder for the entire length of his rookie contract, which would've provided him the flexibility to add more pieces at the trade deadline and following off-season.

Once again, Danny is back to having Zero prospects at the 4/5 in the pipeline for 2018 and beyond. And who is going to rebound all of Jalen Brown's, Marcus Smart's, and Terry Rozier's misses? Uncle Al Horford, the 3-point shooter?

The LA pick may be better than the Brooklyn pick. Could be a top 4 pick, though not #1.

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

The Crooklyn pick, i.e.: The Final Piece, is the issue.

In a draft that should yield multiple starting-caliber (if not All-Star-caliber) big men,
even someone who has fecked-up as many drafts as Danny has, starting in 2008
and continuing practically unabated since then, couldn't screw it up.

He will now instead pay Irving in one season what he would've paid that 1st-rounder for the entire length of his rookie contract, which would've provided him the flexibility to add more pieces at the trade deadline and following off-season.

Once again, Danny is back to having Zero prospects at the 4/5 in the pipeline for 2018 and beyond. And who is going to rebound all of Jalen Brown's, Marcus Smart's, and Terry Rozier's misses? Uncle Al Horford, the 3-point shooter?

Lol

Dude, you need a star. You don't have one. Now you do. Kyrie

That Brooklyn pick could be a bust. It could fall outside the top 5. This "can't miss" draft might end up being like most do.. mediocre

Kyrie is a sure bet. The draft is a gamble.

OH BY THE WAY you still have the Laker/76er pick bro.

Step away from the ledge. Draft picks aren't gold.

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

And Danny is stupid enough, and gutless enough, to bend over and take it up his ass one more time.

Anal doesn't count as sex to mormons fwiw

 

[Bill Lee]

If I was coming up with a list of player contracts that I would most like to have, Kyrie might make it into my top 10 by virtue of being 25 and under team control for a couple more years. If I was coming up with a ranking of top players in the NBA without considering contracts and future projection, Kyrie's probably in my 15-20 range. What he gives us in 2017 will almost certainly be less than what IT gave us in 2016, although it'll likely be more than IT can give in 2017. No matter what I think we have to accept that we aren't getting 2016 IT from our starting PG, and we'll have to lean on Hayward, Brown and Tatum to make up some of that production.

I think that's the whole point -- rebalance the offense towards players you just put a lot of money (Hayward) and draft capital (Brown and Tatum) into, don't depend so much on IT, replace him with Kyrie who is three years younger and five inches taller so less of a defensive liability and someone who has proven he can deliver in the big games.

 

[TommyD4207]

Pisses me off these asswipes are pulling this nonsense but at this point a 2rd rounder is like throwing in a set of steak knives.

While I'd rather Ainge tell the Cavs to **** off, the fact of the matter is, we really have too many 2nd round picks. The Celtics won't have the roster space for them all, unless they're all Euros.

 

[borisman]

While I'd rather Ainge tell the Cavs to **** off, the fact of the matter is, we really have too many 2nd round picks. The Celtics won't have the roster space for them all, unless they're all Euros.

We really don't. They've been traded for the next two years (with some protections). We do have some incoming 1st rounders, which are protected. The below list doesn't include our own 1st rounders.

2018 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Philadelphia (via Phoenix) or to Boston (via Phoenix to Philadelphia) protected for selections 1 and 6-30; if this pick falls on any of its protected selections and is therefore retained by Philadelphia, then Boston will instead receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 (via Philadelphia) and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]; the 2019 pick conveyance is included in "2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento" on Boston Incoming

2019 first round draft pick from L.A. Clippers
L.A. Clippers' 1st round pick to Boston (via Memphis) protected for selections 1-14 in 2019 and 1-14 in 2020; if the L.A. Clippers have not conveyed a 1st round pick to Boston by 2020, then the L.A. Clippers will instead convey their 2022 2nd round pick to Boston [L.A. Clippers-Memphis, 2/18/2016; Boston-Memphis, 6/23/2016]

2019 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Boston protected for selections 1-8 in 2019 and 1-6 in 2020 and unprotected in 2021 [Boston-Memphis-New Orleans, 1/12/2015]

2019 first round draft pick from Philadelphia or Sacramento
If Philadelphia conveys the L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Boston, then Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick to Philadelphia; if Philadelphia does not convey the L.A. Lakers' 2018 1st round pick to Boston, then Boston will instead receive the more favorable of Philadelphia's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 and Sacramento's 2019 1st round pick protected for selection 1 (via Philadelphia) and Philadelphia will receive the less favorable or the protected of these two picks [L.A. Lakers-Phoenix, 7/11/2012; Milwaukee-Philadelphia-Phoenix, 2/19/2015; Philadelphia-Sacramento, 7/9/2015; Boston-Philadelphia, 6/19/2017]; this pick conveyance is included in "2018 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers" on Boston Incoming

2020 second round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 2020 2nd round pick to Boston [Boston-Miami, 7/27/2015]

NBA Future Drafts Detailed - RealGM

 

[dafoe2016]

Sounds like it's close to going through thank God

If you're against this trade, consider keeping it to yourself because your lack of sports knowledge is real embarrassing

That's called projection. One of the best contracts in the game out the door, one of our best defenders. This finishes the defensive gutting of the Celtics. Trade for a player that averages 5 ppg less than the guy we are sending out despite having the best player n the world on his team drawing constant double and triple teams. And a possible top 3 pick in a draft that experts are predicting to produce 2-3 franchise players for a 2 year rental of a guy that does nothing well except score, who will never be the best player on a contender.


Please get a clue.

 

[IllegalContact]

That's called projection. One of the best contracts in the game out the door, one of our best defenders. This finishes the defensive gutting of the Celtics. Trade for a player that averages 5 ppg less than the guy we are sending out despite having the best player n the world on his team drawing constant double and triple teams. And a possible top 3 pick in a draft that experts are predicting to produce 2-3 franchise players for a 2 year rental of a guy that does nothing well except score, who will never be the best player on a contender.


Please get a clue.

hmmmmmm.......a projection versus very fuzzy logic

when the chips were down, both celts in the deal wilted.......and as far as the deal goes, they were throw ins for salary purposes....what this comes down to is irving for the draft pick (or draft picks) but the cavs are taking the opportunity to use thomas as a ******** excuse.......maybe the C's should take thomas back, give them Rozier while replacing the brooklyn pick with their own pick.....see what cleveland says

then the celts can put thomas back on the bench where he belongs

 

[VrabelJr]

That's called projection. One of the best contracts in the game out the door, one of our best defenders. This finishes the defensive gutting of the Celtics. Trade for a player that averages 5 ppg less than the guy we are sending out despite having the best player n the world on his team drawing constant double and triple teams. And a possible top 3 pick in a draft that experts are predicting to produce 2-3 franchise players for a 2 year rental of a guy that does nothing well except score, who will never be the best player on a contender.


Please get a clue.

Crowder's defense took a major step back last year. We still have Marcus Smart and added Marcus Morris. Jaylen Brown played some good defense in the playoffs.

 

[Bill Lee]

A real long piece (warning: BSPN) Lowe: Why the Kyrie Irving trade makes sense for Boston says:

It looks unlikely the Cleveland Cavaliers will pry a better haul than the Boston Celtics' standing offer of Thomas, Jae Crowder, Ante Zizic and the Brooklyn Nets' unprotected pick in the 2018 draft -- even with Thomas' status so uncertain due to a lingering hip injury. That may embolden Boston to draw the line at one or two more second-round picks after Cleveland finally asked them Tuesday night for extra compensation.

So the current consensus is that CLE's butthurt act will probably get them some 2nds. Personally I'd prefer to see Danny tell them to **** off.

EDIT: one interesting bit of supposition:

That was the bigger-picture concern among Boston pessimists in the wake of the Irving deal: If all the hoarding and dealing in the end nets Horford, Hayward, Irving, Tatum, Brown, and one more interesting prospect, did Boston accomplish enough with those picks? Where is the no-brainer franchise superstar -- the best player on a title team?

Here are the Best Players On Title Teams since 1991: Michael Jordan, Hakeem Olajuwon, Tim Duncan, Shaquille O'Neal, Pick-A-Piston, Dwyane Wade, Kevin Garnett, Kobe Bryant, Dirk Nowitzki, LeBron James, maybe Kawhi Leonard (2014 Spurs), Stephen Curry, and maybe Kevin Durant.

Exactly one of those non-Pistons was traded in the prime of his career, and played the role of best guy on a championship team after the trade: Garnett. Even with Ainge's borderline unprecedented trove, meeting that standard in a trade was a long shot.

I agree with that sentiment. Superstars aren't very often available in a trade. Getting a four time All Star as young as Kyrie is a pretty good outcome. It seems Danny didn't want to wait another year and see what the BKY pick would bring. There is a thing as having too many young talents to develop at the same time.

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

That's called projection. One of the best contracts in the game out the door, one of our best defenders. This finishes the defensive gutting of the Celtics. Trade for a player that averages 5 ppg less than the guy we are sending out despite having the best player n the world on his team drawing constant double and triple teams. And a possible top 3 pick in a draft that experts are predicting to produce 2-3 franchise players for a 2 year rental of a guy that does nothing well except score, who will never be the best player on a contender.


Please get a clue.

Who deleted my post?

Me get a clue? Let me explain it to you.

Crowder is not an impact player. He doesn't matter. He doesn't help you win titles. So, take his valuable contract and trade it.

Kyrie plays with lebron, who dominates the ball more than any player in history. Oh and JR Smith and Kevin Love, too, who both historically take a lot of shots.

IT plays with a bunch of no name players with very limited offensive talent. If you can't understand why IT averages more than Kyrie I can't help you there.

Kyrie is significantly better than IT. He's also younger.

 

[goheels22002]

If I were Danny Ainge, I'd stand pat. The Cavaliers know exactly what they're getting and it is a very generous offer.

The Celtics with Jason Tatum and a 2nd-year Jaylen Brown are better than last year with IT and Crowder in the starting lineup with Hayward and Horford. Morris, Nader, and Zizic give them size, defense and many options on the blocks. The guard spot is loaded.

Cleveland needs this more than Celtics. They need the 2018 pick whether LeBron leaves for LA or not. Irving wants out. Good luck with that in 2017-2018.

 

[AvocadoIceCream]

If I were Danny Ainge, I'd stand pat. The Cavaliers know exactly what they're getting and it is a very generous offer.

The Celtics with Jason Tatum and a 2nd-year Jaylen Brown are better than last year with IT and Crowder in the starting lineup with Hayward and Horford. Morris, Nader, and Zizic give them size, defense and many options on the blocks. The guard spot is loaded.

Cleveland needs this more than Celtics. They need the 2018 pick whether LeBron leaves for LA or not. Irving wants out. Good luck with that in 2017-2018.

Zizic is gone in the trade fwiw bro

But there is no way you let the deal he squashed over a late 1st or 2nd round pick.

Just get Kyrie here

 

[dafoe2016]

Who deleted my post?

Me get a clue? Let me explain it to you.

Crowder is not an impact player. He doesn't matter. He doesn't help you win titles. So, take his valuable contract and trade it.

Kyrie plays with lebron, who dominates the ball more than any player in history. Oh and JR Smith and Kevin Love, too, who both historically take a lot of shots.

IT plays with a bunch of no name players with very limited offensive talent. If you can't understand why IT averages more than Kyrie I can't help you there.

Kyrie is significantly better than IT. He's also younger.

You are absolutely clueless. When I talk about Crowder's contract it is relation to his talent. He would get significant minutes on pretty much any team in the league and start on several. You don't get guys like that for anywhere near what they were paying him.

Yeah, Kyrie is not only better than IT, but "significantly" better. LOL. Sure, as long as you ignore reality. IT outscored Irving by 5 ppg despite the fact that he was the entire focal point of opposing defenses and had no real second option. Meanwhile Irving played with the best player in the game drawing double and triple teams taking pressure off him and he still couldn't score nearly as many as IT.

Before James’s return in 2014, the Cavaliers were outscored by at least 5.1 net points per 100 possessions with Irving on the court, roughly the same production we expect from a team that wins 25 to 27 games a season. In 2014-15 Cleveland had a net rating of plus-0.9 with Irving on the court and James on the bench. The next season that declined to minus-0.5 and then again to minus-8 in 2016-17, a mark lower than the 26-win Los Angeles Lakers (minus-7.2 net rating) last season. When Irving was without the services of James and Kevin Love, the team’s net rating dropped even further to minus-12.8.


Plus, Irving’s overall production falls short of some of the other focal-point guards in the league. He was ranked as the 12th best point guard per ESPN’s Real Plus Minus in 2016-17, which estimates a player’s on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions, after adjusting for teammates and opponents. He ranked 34th in 2013-14, the season before James decided to come back home.

His overall value above a replacement player (2.9 VORP) ranked 14th among all guards qualifying for the scoring title last season, with the top three players, Chris Paul, Steph Curry and Russell Westbrook, all proving they can be the star of the show. He ranked 9th in VORP at the position (minimum of 5,000 minutes played) during his first three seasons in the NBA.

If you can't understand that IT is, at the the very least, as good as Irving then I can't help you. Stick to commenting on football. The NBA is clearly not your thing. Jae Crowder does not help you win titles. Wow. Pure comedy gold.

 

[TommyD4207]

Jae Crowder does not help you win titles. Period. There are 30 Jae Crowders in the league, and many of them make less than he does, not to mention one on the Celtics already, who has a much, much higher ceiling than Jae Crowder ever had. Your Celtics footie-pajamas might be a little tight.

 

[IllegalContact]

If you can't understand that IT is, at the the very least, as good as Irving then I can't help you. Stick to commenting on football. The NBA is clearly not your thing. Jae Crowder does not help you win titles. Wow. Pure comedy gold.

isiah Thomas is a modern day vinnie Johnson.....dude belongs coming off the bench....as a starter, he's a liability as much as an asset.....crowder was in the way of Tatum and brown ... nothing personal, but they were nothing more than salary considerations in this deal

 

[rochrist]

That's called projection. One of the best contracts in the game out the door, one of our best defenders. This finishes the defensive gutting of the Celtics. Trade for a player that averages 5 ppg less than the guy we are sending out despite having the best player n the world on his team drawing constant double and triple teams. And a possible top 3 pick in a draft that experts are predicting to produce 2-3 franchise players for a 2 year rental of a guy that does nothing well except score, who will never be the best player on a contender.


Please get a clue.

Crowder was going to struggle for minutes this year.
Please get a clue.

 

[ViperGTS]

Crowder was going to struggle for minutes this year.
Please get a clue.

Yeah with Hayward and Tatum no place for Crowder. Even if they run Jaylen or Hayward at the 2 at times.