Can we finally stop pretending that Cam is good?

[Lagaffe_07]

You're forgetting Bill has seen a lot more than what we fans have seen like those 33 passes in meaningless football situations. Stidham has had 2 camps, lots of practices and obviously has not impressed Bill if this is the decision he's made. His sub par stats is one factor in that decision but it's not the only or even the biggest factor.

Bill doesn't owe us fans a showcase.

"If he sucks, he sucks" - I don't think that's much of an argument to start a QB.

Yet there is example the other way around. We saw that Meyers is a good receiver. Yet bill saw him every day for the same period has Stidham and if it wasn’t for Edelman and Harry injuries he wouldn’t have played more than what he was so I think Bill had to be thinking that he could not play and I remember posters on this forum wanted to see more of Meyers at that time.

what would we say if pederson continues to say that Wentz was his starter? We would say that he lost his mind. I just prefer to play a player that has some upside as low as it is than a guy that I know definitely that he can’t play anymore. It is in my belief that practice is not enough to fully evaluate a player. Nothing can replace game reps.

 

[yukon cornelius]

at this point the 'debate' about Cam is moot......he is NOT the QB of the future, or even of next year......you have a kid that needs to be evaluated in real time, for a significant amount of time.....put Stidham out there, see what you've got.......yeah, the lack of TE is there, the lack of WR depth/top end talent is there.....but we have a great OL and a solid run game, not going to get the kid killed, see what he can do

at this point if they stick with Cam for the rest of the run, you basically might as well write Stidham off......if they don't give him the chance now, with the season done, then they don't plan on him ever being the guy......which is fine......but as a fan, i'd rather watch the kid slinging it around, even if its to the wrong color, than watch Cam's bad mechanics and short armed throws into the dirt......it's just painful to watch a Cam led Patriots team - we know the team is flawed, we know the opt outs hurt.......and if they were winning every week 17-14 I could stomach it, barely.......but it's like watching the Tony Eason led teams......they were just good enough to be a tease, then ol' happy feet did something bone head to pull the carpet out from underneath you........but I enjoyed watching those teams more than this one, at least on offense.....Cam has just gotten too painful to watch, time to pull the band aid off

 

[lancerman]

Yet there is example the other way around. We saw that Meyers is a good receiver. Yet bill saw him every day for the same period has Stidham and if it wasn’t for Edelman and Harry injuries he wouldn’t have played more than what he was so I think Bill had to be thinking that he could not play and I remember posters on this forum wanted to see more of Meyers at that time.

what would we say if pederson continues to say that Wentz was his starter? We would say that he lost his mind. I just prefer to play a player that has some upside as low as it is than a guy that I know definitely that he can’t play anymore. It is in my belief that practice is not enough to fully evaluate a player. Nothing can replace game reps.

Wentz has 5 more INT’s than Cam, he has a worse passer rating, literally 10% worse a completion percentage, is averaging over a yard per pass more (which is significant), he takes more sacks, when you combine passing and rushing TD’s Cam has more than him, and the Eagles are 3-8-1 with a 2nd round QB on the bench who was picked 80 spots higher than Stidham and actually accomplished something in college.

That’s not exactly a one to one comparison

 

[lancerman]

at this point the 'debate' about Cam is moot......he is NOT the QB of the future, or even of next year......you have a kid that needs to be evaluated in real time, for a significant amount of time.....put Stidham out there, see what you've got.......yeah, the lack of TE is there, the lack of WR depth/top end talent is there.....but we have a great OL and a solid run game, not going to get the kid killed, see what he can do

at this point if they stick with Cam for the rest of the run, you basically might as well write Stidham off......if they don't give him the chance now, with the season done, then they don't plan on him ever being the guy......which is fine......but as a fan, i'd rather watch the kid slinging it around, even if its to the wrong color, than watch Cam's bad mechanics and short armed throws into the dirt......it's just painful to watch a Cam led Patriots team - we know the team is flawed, we know the opt outs hurt.......and if they were winning every week 17-14 I could stomach it, barely.......but it's like watching the Tony Eason led teams......they were just good enough to be a tease, then ol' happy feet did something bone head to pull the carpet out from underneath you........but I enjoyed watching those teams more than this one, at least on offense.....Cam has just gotten too painful to watch, time to pull the band aid off

Stidham doesn’t need to be evaluated, he’s been evaluated. Bill made his decision. This isn’t hard to understand.

Yea you should probably write Stidham off. If Hoyer wasn’t the only other QB on the team and Covid wasn’t happening he would likely go the way of Etling

 

[jdlboot14]

Some people have such a hard time understanding that just because I want Stidham to play out the season now doesn't mean I think he's the star of the future, or will be better than Cam across the board. Point is, this season is burnt (and was since Brady defected), so now that we see Cam is not an answer, I'd rather SEE what Stid has if given a fair shot at starting reps and game plan. It's not ridiculous, teams do it all the time. He can hand the ball off like Cam, and clearly has a better arm. If he shows to be crap, then the decisions are clearer in the offseason. But there is NO WAY either BB or JMD can say they KNOW what he is or isn't based on some mop up duty and 10% of the practice reps. They had no clue Brady would be ice, and turn into a 4 year starter, let alone 20. This is all about BB's pride and stubbornness. It's served us well for a time, but has become the downfall of this team as well. Just ask Brady.

 

[lancerman]

Some people have such a hard time understanding that just because I want Stidham to play out the season now doesn't mean I think he's the star of the future, or will be better than Cam across the board. Point is, this season is burnt (and was since Brady defected), so now that we see Cam is not an answer, I'd rather SEE what Stid has if given a fair shot at starting reps and game plan. It's not ridiculous, teams do it all the time. He can hand the ball off like Cam, and clearly has a better arm. If he shows to be crap, then the decisions are clearer in the offseason. But there is NO WAY either BB or JMD can say they KNOW what he is or isn't based on some mop up duty and 10% of the practice reps. They had no clue Brady would be ice, and turn into a 4 year starter, let alone 20. This is all about BB's pride and stubbornness. It's served us well for a time, but has become the downfall of this team as well. Just ask Brady.

There is no way the greatest coach of all time can know what he has in a QB who has been here for two years and for time in multiple games?

Also pretty much everyone on the team in 2001 concedes that most people thought Brady was a starter in waiting

 

[sb1]

Some people have such a hard time understanding that just because I want Stidham to play out the season now doesn't mean I think he's the star of the future, or will be better than Cam across the board. Point is, this season is burnt (and was since Brady defected), so now that we see Cam is not an answer, I'd rather SEE what Stid has if given a fair shot at starting reps and game plan. It's not ridiculous, teams do it all the time. He can hand the ball off like Cam, and clearly has a better arm. If he shows to be crap, then the decisions are clearer in the offseason. But there is NO WAY either BB or JMD can say they KNOW what he is or isn't based on some mop up duty and 10% of the practice reps. They had no clue Brady would be ice, and turn into a 4 year starter, let alone 20. This is all about BB's pride and stubbornness. It's served us well for a time, but has become the downfall of this team as well. Just ask Brady.

Comparing Stidham and Brady... Now I've seen everything.

 

[sb1]

at this point the 'debate' about Cam is moot......he is NOT the QB of the future, or even of next year......you have a kid that needs to be evaluated in real time, for a significant amount of time.....put Stidham out there, see what you've got.......yeah, the lack of TE is there, the lack of WR depth/top end talent is there.....but we have a great OL and a solid run game, not going to get the kid killed, see what he can do

at this point if they stick with Cam for the rest of the run, you basically might as well write Stidham off......if they don't give him the chance now, with the season done, then they don't plan on him ever being the guy......which is fine......but as a fan, i'd rather watch the kid slinging it around, even if its to the wrong color, than watch Cam's bad mechanics and short armed throws into the dirt......it's just painful to watch a Cam led Patriots team - we know the team is flawed, we know the opt outs hurt.......and if they were winning every week 17-14 I could stomach it, barely.......but it's like watching the Tony Eason led teams......they were just good enough to be a tease, then ol' happy feet did something bone head to pull the carpet out from underneath you........but I enjoyed watching those teams more than this one, at least on offense.....Cam has just gotten too painful to watch, time to pull the band aid off

Stidham has been evaluated. They've already seen "what he's got". And it looks like the team's decision is: no thank you.

That's not unusual for a 4th round pick QB. Don't know why people still holding on to hope that's going to be great. 4th round draft pick QB's tend not to be.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Some people have such a hard time understanding that just because I want Stidham to play out the season now doesn't mean I think he's the star of the future, or will be better than Cam across the board. Point is, this season is burnt (and was since Brady defected), so now that we see Cam is not an answer, I'd rather SEE what Stid has if given a fair shot at starting reps and game plan. It's not ridiculous, teams do it all the time. He can hand the ball off like Cam, and clearly has a better arm. If he shows to be crap, then the decisions are clearer in the offseason. But there is NO WAY either BB or JMD can say they KNOW what he is or isn't based on some mop up duty and 10% of the practice reps. They had no clue Brady would be ice, and turn into a 4 year starter, let alone 20. This is all about BB's pride and stubbornness. It's served us well for a time, but has become the downfall of this team as well. Just ask Brady.

Don’t try too make too much sense. everyone is thinking the same except sb1 and lancerman.

They are too caught up in the BB can do no wrong, Bill is always rights, Bill has always a plan. if Tomorrow Bill says we need to jump off a bridge, they would jump without thinking twice

 

[RIpats88]

Stidham has been evaluated. They've already seen "what he's got". And it looks like the team's decision is: no thank you.

That's not unusual for a 4th round pick QB. Don't know why people still holding on to hope that's going to be great. 4th round draft pick QB's tend not to be.

Idk if anyone is saying he will be great just that lets see how he does given starter reps considering cam can barely pass for 100 yards.

Maybe he has a future here as a backup. Maybe not. But he has a better chance of being part of your future than cam

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Don't know why people still think he's a potential star in the making.

Nobody is saying that he is a potential star. That fact that we want to see him play has nothing to do with him being the star or not. But i believe that he can be better than this version of Cam which is not hard to do.

 

[Betterthanmost]

What I don't understand is that when he was on the other team, he looked like a world beater. Cam on my team looks like Tebow.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

Idk if anyone is saying he will be great just that lets see how he does given starter reps considering cam can barely pass for 100 yards.

Maybe he has a future here as a backup. Maybe not. But he has a better chance of being part of your future than cam

When Stidham is in the game, you can see right away than the passing game is more fluid. The ball is out quicker. It looks better than with Cam for sure.

 

[sb1]

Kenny Young says Cam Newton's body language tipped Rams on pick-six play | Boston.com

If he sees Cam doing this then why hasn't Bill or Josh?

 

[sb1]

Nobody is saying that he is a potential star. That fact that we want to see him play has nothing to do with him being the star or not. But i believe that he can be better than this version of Cam which is not hard to do.

Sure it does otherwise there would be no controversy here.

I don't need to "see what he's got". Been there done that, no thanks.

 

[RIpats88]

What I don't understand is that when he was on the other team, he looked like a world beater. Cam on my team looks like Tebow.

I think injuries to his shoulder and foot have sapped his throwing abilities.

He winds up his shoulder when throwing and tends to throw off his back foot.

 

[sb1]

Idk if anyone is saying he will be great just that lets see how he does given starter reps considering cam can barely pass for 100 yards.

Maybe he has a future here as a backup. Maybe not. But he has a better chance of being part of your future than cam

I don't think any team would really audition a guy who has played no meaningful snaps in the NFL for the backup role. I don't need to see Stid as a starter in these last 3 games, what I've seen so far is plenty enough.

 

[Mack Herron]

I think injuries to his shoulder and foot have sapped his throwing abilities.

He winds up his shoulder when throwing and tends to throw off his back foot.

He makes too many bad decisions.

 

[Lagaffe_07]

I don't think any team would really audition a guy who has played no meaningful snaps in the NFL for the backup role. I don't need to see Stid as a starter, what I've seen so far is plenty enough.

You had enough watching the guy throw 33 passes but not enough from a guy who threw 301 got it make sense. I’m sure you are still hoping to see 2015 Cam.

 

[dinustef]

I have huge problem with this head 2 head comparison of Newton and X (Brady, Herbert...) player, to show that he is at their level or better.

First of all, basically every defense is playing us to stop the run. They get at least one extra defender into the box and they anticipate and gameplan for variuos types of runs, we have had this season. Based on that, there is more space to pass tha ball, since on majority of stepbacks, he should have an open option. With Brady they are anticipating the pass, too. Of course the recieving corps are not great, but it's not like that they are dropping balls left and right. Most of the catchable balls are being caught.

Second, pocket presence. One of Newton's top strenghts is running the ball, and gaining yards on the ground. That in theory should help him to avoid some pressure and make something out of nothing. But that is not really the case. His awareness is really low, and it's not processing the play development fast enough. If his first or second read isn't there, he panics and bad things happen. Best scenario is a sack, worst fumble or some terrible int.

Third, his throwing mechanics. That is as ugly as it gets. The trajectory of his balls often look like a plane going down on very steep angle. The result of that are very inaccurate throws, most often going below the waist of the reciever. Not to mention big number of tipped passes at the LOS.

I wanted him to succeed so bad, but he can't do it. Is he hurt or his arm has deteriorated that much I don't know, but I know that he isn't the answer. If Bill decides to stick with him untill the end, I am ok with it, although I don't see why we shouldn't try Stidham for a game or two. Give him first team reps, give him a week of practice with the starters, at least to see if he is good enough to be a backup next season.