By the numbers: Patricia's offense downright offensive

[Rob0729]

Bill O'Brien is cut from the same cloth as Patricia and Judge. Hardasses who failed on their own cuz players can't relate to them. I wonder, if you look at NE's sloppy play this year, if the players are tuning out Belichick now? Bringing O'Brien back plugs the leak, but is it really setting up the team for longer-term success? I think the Pats need to evolve their approach forward, rather than trying to bring back the glory days with retreads.

O'Brien is a very good OC. Just because he wasn't a great head coach (although he was in a horrible situation in Houston and rumors were he was trying to get fired to get out of it). He did have some success with Houston before the bottom fell out. But that had a lot to do with the front office issues.

But as long as Belichick is here, expecting him to bring in someone who isn't cut from the same cloth as him is probably a pipe dream. Belichick wants his people. I think O'Brien can right the ship.

 

[Rob0729]

I'm to the point that I'd rather risk it with a new, young blood, offensive guy than any re-tread.
Look at all the young guys in the NFL who are making a difference - even Mike LaFleur at the Jets, and Ken Dorsey at the Bills, and O'connell as HC. It's time to move on from the old guard of BB's circle. I'm actually done with JMD, Patricia, or his sons too.
It's taken me a long time to get here, but I think Jon Kraft needs to start over with a new regime. 23 years is a long time to coach at one place. it can't last forever.

Not going to happen while Belichick is here.

BTW, I don't know if Dorsey is making much of a difference. He is just continuing what Dabol had started.

 

[jdlboot14]

Not going to happen while Belichick is here.

BTW, I don't know if Dorsey is making much of a difference. He is just continuing what Dabol had started.

Hey, if only Patricia could continue what JMD had going last year, we'd all be happier, and the team would be at least 9-3.
Status quo would be a celebration at this point, but everything has regressed so fast and so far, it's almost hard to do.

One stat alone is that every other rookie WR has been more productive on new teams than Thornton.
The reason that's MP's fault is he can't figure out how to get him the ball. As Lombardi said, "no offense, just running a bunch of plays".

One positive hope is that BB said "too hard" and "too late" to make big changes on offense this season. Which indicates he's going to after this season. If he doesn't by end of Jan, Kraft better fire him.

 

[sb1]

O'Brien is a very good OC. Just because he wasn't a great head coach (although he was in a horrible situation in Houston and rumors were he was trying to get fired to get out of it). He did have some success with Houston before the bottom fell out. But that had a lot to do with the front office issues.

But as long as Belichick is here, expecting him to bring in someone who isn't cut from the same cloth as him is probably a pipe dream. Belichick wants his people. I think O'Brien can right the ship.

BOB also knows Mac. It makes a lot of sense to bring him back.

 

[jdlboot14]

BOB also knows Mac. It makes a lot of sense to bring him back.

I was not a fan of BOB when he was here, or in TEX. I know he'd be better than MP... but I don't want to rebuild with him. I don't trust him.
It's either shoot for the moon and get Payton to make the change now, or force BB to bring in (or elevate from within) a young innovative thinker that gets the reigns of the offense. Where BB can transition out in the next 1-2 years.

 

[Thelonious]

not me...I'm in my prime...

A Lecture Upon The Shadow​

Stand still, and I will read to thee
A lecture, love, in love's philosophy.
These three hours that we have spent,
Walking here, two shadows went
Along with us, which we ourselves produc'd.
But, now the sun is just above our head,
We do those shadows tread,
And to brave clearness all things are reduc'd.
So whilst our infant loves did grow,
Disguises did, and shadows, flow
From us, and our cares; but now 'tis not so.
That love has not attain'd the high'st degree,
Which is still diligent lest others see.

Except our loves at this noon stay,
We shall new shadows make the other way.
As the first were made to blind
Others, these which come behind
Will work upon ourselves, and blind our eyes.
If our loves faint, and westwardly decline,
To me thou, falsely, thine,
And I to thee mine actions shall disguise.
The morning shadows wear away,
But these grow longer all the day;
But oh, love's day is short, if love decay.
Love is a growing, or full constant light,
And his first minute, after noon, is night. - John Donne

 

[Tom Tupa]

Did O'Brien ever actually coach Mac? I thought he joined Alabama after Mac's last year there but I could be wrong.

 

[catent]

The OC needs to call the game from upstairs. Being on the sideline isn't working. If you run the stats comparing offenses around the league with OCs on the field versus upstairs, I'm sure you will see a huge difference. This HAS to be the problem. Easy fix!

This thought has occurred to me as well. I have to think a bird's eye view and being able to see coverage shells, rotations, and what's going on at a high level is of real value.

Have the OC upstairs and have the QB coach on the sideline.

 

[catent]

How does he have this guy and given him 1 carry all season? Don't give me ****ing pass blocking as an excuse. You don't need to pass block when you are running the ball




Also go draft or sign the best FB in the offseason, Mondre would be that much better if he had a lead blocker taking on a guy for him

Rhamondre actually was quoted earlier this season as saying he enjoys the new offensive scheme without a FB. Referenced the fact he never had one at Oklahoma and that he found it to be a tricky (and not particularly friendly) adjustment during his rookie year, last season.

 

[The Brandon Five]

O'Brien is a very good OC. Just because he wasn't a great head coach (although he was in a horrible situation in Houston and rumors were he was trying to get fired to get out of it). He did have some success with Houston before the bottom fell out. But that had a lot to do with the front office issues.

But as long as Belichick is here, expecting him to bring in someone who isn't cut from the same cloth as him is probably a pipe dream. Belichick wants his people. I think O'Brien can right the ship.

Three out of four of the most productive seasons for the offense were while he was the OC:





Of course that was with the GOAT at QB.

 

[UrbanCowboy]

O'Brien is a very good OC. Just because he wasn't a great head coach (although he was in a horrible situation in Houston and rumors were he was trying to get fired to get out of it). He did have some success with Houston before the bottom fell out. But that had a lot to do with the front office issues.

But as long as Belichick is here, expecting him to bring in someone who isn't cut from the same cloth as him is probably a pipe dream. Belichick wants his people. I think O'Brien can right the ship.

He won a power struggle and became GM. That's when the bottom fell out. I'm suggesting that if we don't like patricia and judge, Bill OB ain't going to be much better. just wait for that first two yard plunge up the middle on first down (ha ha)

 

[jdlboot14]

Run Game stuff...
Interesting that Rham played in 12 games last year, and had a 4.6yd average.
He's played in all 12 games so far this year and has 4.6yd average. (with ~30 more carries and 130 more yards)
Harris also had a 4.6yd average last year in 15 games with 929yds on the season.
And he has 4.6yd average so far this year too (with far less production)

Verdict - our run game average with our 2-headed beast is quite efficient, even in a down year.
4.6yd per run is solid (7th best team average in league)
I'd like to see them keep Harris because I love the guy's locker room leadership, and when not injured, he's been good.
Rham is certainly RB1 going forward.

 

[captain stone]

This thought has occurred to me as well. I have to think a bird's eye view and being able to see coverage shells, rotations, and what's going on at a high level is of real value.

Have the OC upstairs and have the QB coach on the sideline.

I've always generally preferred to have the OC on the sidelines in order to have a more personal, visceral relationship with his HC, QB, OLmen etc., to hear the sounds and reactions as it's happening, to feel more part of the team...

However, in our own play-caller's case, perhaps it would indeed be more beneficial if he were as far away from everyone as possible and made to think of the game as a chess match from above... Can't hurt to give it a try...

 

[Rob0729]

He won a power struggle and became GM. That's when the bottom fell out. I'm suggesting that if we don't like patricia and judge, Bill OB ain't going to be much better. just wait for that first two yard plunge up the middle on first down (ha ha)

By the time Rick Smith quit as GM, the Texans were already in a shamble. But what does anything he did as a head coach at the Texans have to do with O'Brien's ability to be an OC?

O'Brien would be worlds better than Patricia. O'Brien knows how to run an offense. He knows how to develop plays and a system to put the talent he has in the best position to succeed while hiding the deficiencies.

 

[Deus Irae]

BOB also knows Mac. It makes a lot of sense to bring him back.

But would BB be willing to go back to the older system, or is he going to insist on moving forward with more of the current ********? If you're going to stay with a system that is actually better run by brainless QBs, such as the one currently in place, you're going to be doing Mac a disservice.

 

[captain stone]

More numbers confirming what our lyin' eyes have already shown us, courtesy of Mark Daniels on the twitter sidebar:

Pats score TDs on 59% of 1st/Goal opportunities, "good" for 29th in the league.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

Of course Bill lied... He does it all the time.

All coaches, players and management types 'sports' lie to the press to not give away information valuable to other teams and avoid creating controversies. It is part of the game. BB takes it to a different level, LOL

 

[RobertWeathers]

In the last 9 games (since BAL) Patriots QB have a 98qb rating, 70% comp, ave 216yds and little over a TD and less than 1/2 a pick a game.

That is the definition of caretaker QB whos role is not to lose the game and sure as hell not win it for you.

 

[Rob0729]

The Pats haven't rushed for over 100 yards since the first Jets game. Since that game, the Pats have rushed for 59 yards, 99 yards, 45 yards, and 60 yards. The Pats are 24th in rushing yards a game with two very good RBs.

For people who are putting all the blame on Mac Jones, Jones doesn't run the ball.

Everyone agrees that the biggest strength of the offense is the Pats' two RBs. Yet, Patricia is not using them enough. And Harris only missed the last game and a half.

 

[venecol]

I was willing to give Patricia some time to acclimate to the offensive side as he's never coached there before.