By the numbers: Patricia's offense downright offensive

[Jlaff]

Last year wasn't that bad and we still made the playoffs with a rookie qb. The year before with Cam was bad, in fact I remember two Cam late turnovers that cost us games. I'm not sure how you can blame coaches if players fumble like Agholor did two times this year. Hopefully, we cut down on these and if we do, we'll have a chance to win.

I'll never forget almost 2 minutes left before the half against the Cowboys and they had Mac kneel out. Went on to lose that game by a few points I believe. Can't recall what impact it would have had on seeding, but significant no doubt.

 

[upstater1]

He was totally outcoached in his first SB against us but he's young and may have learned from it. We'll see how he does this year, he has one of the most talented teams in the league again and I think they'll be a problem come playoff time in the weak NFC.

I thought the Rams were badly coached last year too. Everyone I watched the SB with last year thought it was a stinker. Total lack of hitting.

 

[ashley]

I thought the Rams were badly coached last year too. Everyone I watched the SB with last year thought it was a stinker. Total lack of hitting.

Interesting thought, I did think they had the more talented team against Cincy and that went down to the wire.

 

[crawhammer]

He was totally outcoached in his first SB against us but he's young and may have learned from it. We'll see how he does this year, he has one of the most talented teams in the league again and I think they'll be a problem come playoff time in the weak NFC.

Depends on Stafford. Too many INTs. Even last postseason he got a little too loose with his passes. I do like McVay a lot though. I'll be curious to see what he'll do with his next franchise quarterback. I'd like to see what McVay or Shanahan could accomplish with a true elite quarterback.

I agree the AFC is better than the NFC but the Eagles look pretty legit. Rodgers even with moderately talented receivers is going to win 12 games. Tampa Bay will start steamrolling their opponents again once Godwin is back (with Evans & co). The Rams should walk away with the west. Those four teams will make for some highly competitive and entertaining playoff games.

 

[upstater1]

Interesting thought, I did think they had the more talented team against Cincy and that went down to the wire.

Agree on that. I look at Cincy though and it's clear they were one of the weakest SB teams of the last 20 years. Next to Carolina and Chicago.

 

[Sicilian]

Agree on that. I look at Cincy though and it's clear they were one of the weakest SB teams of the last 20 years. Next to Carolina and Chicago.

I mean, they finished with the same regular season record as the Patriots. Give them full marks for getting hot and playing big when it mattered, but it's not like they were a wagon all year.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

Link? I live outside of NE so I don't get all of the local reporting

Here you go...here is an article from Tom Curran following the ravens game...

New England Patriots – NBC Sports Boston

Find the latest New England Patriots news, highlights, analysis and more with NBC Sports Boston.

www.nbcsports.com

about half way down Curran writes....



Tom E. Curran
But they want to be more explosive, too. So the second-year quarterback known for his beautiful mind, poise and accuracy is being told to take shots and be aggressive. Put the ball in harm’s way. No risk it, no biscuit. You can’t juggle knives and not expect to bleed a little.

And if you’re going to cycle annually through offensive line coaches as the Patriots have and then decide to change the offense and the language while asking your new OL coach to also be the de facto offensive coordinator and playcaller, while also asking the quarterback to wait a bit longer, he’s going to get hit more.

Which means he may get dinged. And that’s come to pass. For the second time in three games, Jones was in too much disrepair to meet with the media after the game.

On one hand -- callous as it sounds -- c’est la vie at the quarterback position. Guys get whacked, landed on, bent, broken and sprained. But if you’re Jones or the people with his best interests in mind (and every quarterback’s a little corporation trying to turn into a bigger corporation), are you feeling like this was a little inevitable given the setup and the scheme change?




also

Felger & Mazz Podcast

Join Mike Felger and Tony Massarotti along with Big Jim Murray weekday afternoons from 2pm until 6pm on 98.5 The Sports Hub.

985thesportshub.com

if you listen to Fegler and mazz on yesterday's show. Patriots insider Greg Bedard talks about it as well..

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

That's an interesting take on the situation. I don't know, but the actual data tell another story. Mac Jones completed passes to seven different Patriots receivers against the Ravens and targeted Lil Jordan Humphrey as well. Against the Steelers, he targeted nine players and completed passes to six receivers.

Yeah, there was that bad interception into coverage where there were three Ravens around Parker, but I cannot believe that the order was throw to Parker even if you see triple coverage. Mac knows better than that. This kid is an experienced big-time program QB. @Deus Irae and some of us had a discussion of the interceptions against the Ravens, and I agree with him that the receivers are partially to blame. Parker has to earn Mac's trust.

On more than one occasion we saw Parker look like he wasn't sure where he was supposed to go. That is why Meyers is so often the check down - both because Meyers gets to the open space in the defense and he knows when to be the 3rd or 4th option.

I'd like to see much heavier reliance on Hunter Henry and Jonnu Smith. Henry is a great route-runner and Smith is a YAC machine if you get him the ball on quick slants or in the backfield. But that's me and i have no business pretending that I know what plays to call in real time.

There was a tweet around here, that showed Parker being the pats top receiver as far as targets go....

and just so someone doesn't misinterprets my post. I am not saying getting the ball to Parker is a problem. Forcing it to him is.

 

[Deus Irae]

People around here need to realize that 50/50 balls are, by their very nature, essentially forced throws. They are throws knowingly made into coverage. So, if you build an offense around 50/50 balls, you are going to have interceptions.

 

[Deus Irae]

Yeah, there was that bad interception into coverage where there were three Ravens around Parker, but I cannot believe that the order was throw to Parker even if you see triple coverage. Mac knows better than that. This kid is an experienced big-time program QB. @Deus Irae and some of us had a discussion of the interceptions against the Ravens, and I agree with him that the receivers are partially to blame. Parker has to earn Mac's trust.

Yeah...


Despite the Patriots notoriously tight lipped response to questions, we know that there was an issue on the part of Parker for the end zone INT. Parker called it a miscommunication. Jones called it "It's ****ing cover 4", on the sideline. Reporters called it Parker failing to do what he needed to, which was to dominate the smaller DB and gain outside leverage.

In short, that play was on Parker, either because he didn't hear the call at all, didn't process it properly, didn't read the defense properly, or just flat out got beat and/or quit in his battle against a player he should easily have beaten.

 

[crawhammer]

People around here need to realize that 50/50 balls are, by their very nature, essentially forced throws. They are throws knowingly made into coverage. So, if you build an offense around 50/50 balls, you are going to have interceptions.

Especially if the target isn't a true 50/50 ball receiver. Was Miami just heaving passes up for Parker? I don't recall that. He's listed at 6'3" but doesn't look that tall on the field. Mike Evans is a good example of a dependable 50/50 ball receiver. I just don't see the point in the Patriots squeezing a square peg into a round hole. They need to steal some more from last year's playbook.

 

[Sfpat]

Here you go...here is an article from Tom Curran following the ravens game...

New England Patriots – NBC Sports Boston

Find the latest New England Patriots news, highlights, analysis and more with NBC Sports Boston.

www.nbcsports.com

about half way down Curran writes....



Tom E. Curran
But they want to be more explosive, too. So the second-year quarterback known for his beautiful mind, poise and accuracy is being told to take shots and be aggressive. Put the ball in harm’s way. No risk it, no biscuit. You can’t juggle knives and not expect to bleed a little.

And if you’re going to cycle annually through offensive line coaches as the Patriots have and then decide to change the offense and the language while asking your new OL coach to also be the de facto offensive coordinator and playcaller, while also asking the quarterback to wait a bit longer, he’s going to get hit more.

Which means he may get dinged. And that’s come to pass. For the second time in three games, Jones was in too much disrepair to meet with the media after the game.

On one hand -- callous as it sounds -- c’est la vie at the quarterback position. Guys get whacked, landed on, bent, broken and sprained. But if you’re Jones or the people with his best interests in mind (and every quarterback’s a little corporation trying to turn into a bigger corporation), are you feeling like this was a little inevitable given the setup and the scheme change?




also

Felger & Mazz Podcast

Join Mike Felger and Tony Massarotti along with Big Jim Murray weekday afternoons from 2pm until 6pm on 98.5 The Sports Hub.

985thesportshub.com

if you listen to Fegler and mazz on yesterday's show. Patriots insider Greg Bedard talks about it as well..

Not sure this says the coaches are telling Mac to throw the ball more to Parker (my original question), but oh well.

 

[patfanken]

What a bunch of losers we are. Our QB throws for his first 300+ yd game, we get a 150+ yd game from our key FA signing Our total offense was over 460 yds and our reaction to this game by game improvement is to almost universally condemn the offensive coaching staff. I don't get it. Is this kind of lack of vision take place on the first 11 pages of this thread, or was the fact I only read the last 2 make me believe that everyone who posted in that thread believe Patricia needs to be fired.

There were a number of reasons for that loss. At least 2 of those 4 interceptions completely Mac's fault. One I thought was great play by the defense and the last one was a hail mary throw.

A lot of what drives our opinions is perception. Early in the game Jackson UNDERTHROWS a ball in the endzone (0ff his back foot) and COINCIDENTLY gives his receiver position and its a TD. Later in the game Mac throws a ball that would have been perfect into the corner of the endzone BUT the DB has the position and picks it. HOWEVER if Mac had thrown a less perfect pass and under thrown it, it would have been a TD. SO in one example you have an imperfect pass results in the TD and the pass to the corner of the endzone results in the pick.

BTW on defense I wasn't happy with the play of the LB's on Sunday. It looked like they missed filling holes some of the time.

 

[crawhammer]

Yeah...


Despite the Patriots notoriously tight lipped response to questions, we know that there was an issue on the part of Parker for the end zone INT. Parker called it a miscommunication. Jones called it "It's ****ing cover 4", on the sideline. Reporters called it Parker failing to do what he needed to, which was to dominate the smaller DB and gain outside leverage.

In short, that play was on Parker, either because he didn't hear the call at all, didn't process it properly, didn't read the defense properly, or just flat out got beat and/or quit in his battle against a player he should easily have beaten.

I think Mac has to recognize Parker had his head up his *ss straight from the snap (even pre-snap). He can't make that throw. There's 9 minutes left in the game, they at least needed a FG there. Not a good play by Mac or Parker. And some has to fall on the coaching for not having Parker prepared for that play call.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

Not sure this says the coaches are telling Mac to throw the ball more to Parker (my original question), but oh well.

has it been quoted by a patriots coach no, it wouldn't because we all know the patriots do not tell you everything, but if you look at the stats, if you ever listened to any of the patriots insiders, it's pretty much been implied and as i said. If you have the time check out Felger and Mazz's yesterday show and Greg Bedard says the something.

 

[crawhammer]

What a bunch of losers we are. Our QB throws for his first 300+ yd game, we get a 150+ yd game from our key FA signing Our total offense was over 460 yds and our reaction to this game by game improvement is to almost universally condemn the offensive coaching staff. I don't get it. Is this kind of lack of vision take place on the first 11 pages of this thread, or was the fact I only read the last 2 make me believe that everyone who posted in that thread believe Patricia needs to be fired.

There were a number of reasons for that loss. At least 2 of those 4 interceptions completely Mac's fault. One I thought was great play by the defense and the last one was a hail mary throw.

A lot of what drives our opinions is perception. Early in the game Jackson UNDERTHROWS a ball in the endzone (0ff his back foot) and COINCIDENTLY gives his receiver position and its a TD. Later in the game Mac throws a ball that would have been perfect into the corner of the endzone BUT the DB has the position and picks it. HOWEVER if Mac had thrown a less perfect pass and under thrown it, it would have been a TD. SO in one example you have an imperfect pass results in the TD and the pass to the corner of the endzone results in the pick.

BTW on defense I wasn't happy with the play of the LB's on Sunday. It looked like they missed filling holes some of the time.

Let's not make it worse than it was... 3 INTs not 4.

And I don't think anyone actually believes Patricia will get fired. But it's ok to daydream.

 

[patfanken]

Let's not make it worse than it was... 3 INTs not 4.

And I don't think anyone actually believes Patricia will get fired. But it's ok to daydream.

Thanks for pointing that out. There were FOUR TO's. Again lose the TO battle and lose the game

 

[crawhammer]

Thanks for pointing that out. There were FOUR TO's. Again lose the TO battle and lose the game

Especially true when your margin for error is slim to begin with.

Also, to accentuate your point, I believe 78% of NFL games are won by the team who wins the turnover battle.

 

[Tunescribe]

What a bunch of losers we are. Our QB throws for his first 300+ yd game, we get a 150+ yd game from our key FA signing Our total offense was over 460 yds and our reaction to this game by game improvement is to almost universally condemn the offensive coaching staff. I don't get it. Is this kind of lack of vision take place on the first 11 pages of this thread, or was the fact I only read the last 2 make me believe that everyone who posted in that thread believe Patricia needs to be fired.

There were a number of reasons for that loss. At least 2 of those 4 interceptions completely Mac's fault. One I thought was great play by the defense and the last one was a hail mary throw.

A lot of what drives our opinions is perception. Early in the game Jackson UNDERTHROWS a ball in the endzone (0ff his back foot) and COINCIDENTLY gives his receiver position and its a TD. Later in the game Mac throws a ball that would have been perfect into the corner of the endzone BUT the DB has the position and picks it. HOWEVER if Mac had thrown a less perfect pass and under thrown it, it would have been a TD. SO in one example you have an imperfect pass results in the TD and the pass to the corner of the endzone results in the pick.

BTW on defense I wasn't happy with the play of the LB's on Sunday. It looked like they missed filling holes some of the time.

According to Greg Bedard's analysis, only the last interception was Mac's fault. The first one he blamed on the play call -- play-action on second and seven, linebackers disregarded the fake and immediately dropped into coverage; Mac had nowhere else to go with the ball and forced it. The second (in end zone) he put on Parker not adjusting to coverage (Mac blew his top at Parker on the sideline afterward).

 

[NG Pats Fan]

He was totally outcoached in his first SB against us but he's young and may have learned from it. We'll see how he does this year, he has one of the most talented teams in the league again and I think they'll be a problem come playoff time in the weak NFC.

He won the super bowl last year. That’s pretty impressive. He also won a super bowl with the same quarterback that Patricia couldn’t win with