By far best defense we had in a long time.

[Deus Irae]

That doesn't really answer anything, but okay. Details, details.

You told me I couldn't point to pesonnel, so I don't know how else you think I was supposed to answer. 2014 was better at all 3 defensive levels.

You can't really make the assumption yet that this defense plays weaker against stronger opponents than that one did when it's pretty much an unknown up to this point.

I made no such assumption. You may have misunderstood that part of my post, due either to poor wording on my part (likely) or just a reading error on yours.

The only time it did play weaker was the week after Collins was traded, and we were still trying to figure out the correct personnel. That 14 defense had its weak games as well, I'd probably count the Baltimore game as one of them.

Now you're just talking out of your ass. Come on. You're much better than this.

 

[Mack Herron]

I think there is uncertainty about how good they are because, while #1 in points allowed, they have not been tested as severely yet. To my eyes, the individual players appear less talented than 2014, but Bill sees way more and if they shut down two of the best offenses remaining, we will have to give them full credit. It starts Sunday with Bell, Brown, Rothlisberger, behind one of the best OLs.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

This defense has more depth and versatility. Also, that secondary under-performed big time in the playoffs.

Nah, they had one bad game. They got HUGE and CLUTCH stops when they needed to in the SB though. That is part of being a great defense. Getting key stops when your team needs it. We don't win the SB without the defense. People forget, we were down by 10 and the offense got stopped multiple times during that span. When that happened, the defense got multiple stops and didn't give up another point the rest of the game allowing the offense to make its comeback.

 

[Joey007]

You told me I couldn't point to pesonnel, so I don't know how else you think I was supposed to answer. 2014 was better at all 3 defensive levels.



I made no such assumption. You may have misunderstood that part of my post, due either to poor wording on my part (likely) or just a reading error on yours.



Now you're just talking out of your ass. Come on. You're much better than this.

Again, man. In that Baltimore game, was there not moments where the defense got gashed?

 

[Deus Irae]

Again, man. In that Baltimore game, was there not moments where the defense got gashed?

They didn't play Baltimore in the regular season. Are you really going to try playing the playoffs card, when the only team this year's Patriots have played in the playoffs is the offensively challenged Texans? If so, do I get to point out the asskicking the Colts offense got in the playoffs, or the good game the defense played in the S.B.?

QBs faced by 2014 team, beginning in week 9 (would be first game post-Collins trade as an equivalent) include:

Peyton Manning
Andrew Luck
Matthew Stafford
Aaron Rodgers
Phillip Rivers
Ryan Tannehill
GeNO! Smith
Kyle Orton (week 17 "Patriots don't care" game)

QBs faced by 2016 team, post-Collins trade:

Wilson
Kaepernick
Fitzpatrick (times 2)
Goff
Flacco's corpse
Siemian
Matt Moore

It's not even close.

 

[shmessy]

Excellent read from Baltimore Sun, Ravens Beat Columnist Mike Preston with big praise for the Patriots D and why it sets them apart from the other 3 SB contenders:

Mike Preston: Forget the quarterbacks; Patriots' defense will give them the edge

 

[Ochmed Jones]

When it comes to press man, we are the best defense in the nfl this year.

 

[ivanvamp]

It's clear that the Patriots have a good defense. You cannot possibly lead the NFL in points allowed without being at least a good defense. Are they the "best" defense? Who knows. Who cares? We know that they are a good defense that is capable of playing well. Will they play well in the biggest moments? None of us knows. They could be victimized by bad penalties, weird plays, bounces of the ball, and poor field position. Or they could force three turnovers and dominate. We have no idea.

As best we can tell, they have a good, solid defense, and along with excellent special teams and a really good offense, make the Patriots the best all around team left in the tournament.

And they have home field advantage. So that helps too.

 

[brdmaverick]

Too often we get caught up in the here and now. Sorry this defense is not better than the 2014 team. I don't even mean that as a knock on this year's team.I just think the '14 d was THAT good.

 

[alvinnf]

When it comes to press man, we are the best defense in the nfl this year.

Denver says hi!

 

[jimnance]

...... 2014 was better at all 3 defensive levels.

Wrong.

 

[LightSkinSmurf]

Too often we get caught up in the here and now. Sorry this defense is not better than the 2014 team. I don't even mean that as a knock on this year's team.I just think the '14 d was THAT good.

Pats fans have a terrible habit of doing that. Like I've said before, if there's anyway at all to justify a current pats team or player being better than a past one, most will do it. All they need is enough wiggle room to make the argument.

 

[PatsGirl2011]

'14 was very good at times, but not great. They gave up too many big plays in big spots even with Revis. '07 D has always been underrated to me, maybe because Brady and Moss killed it that year.

 

[brdmaverick]

'14 was very good at times, but not great. They gave up too many big plays in big spots even with Revis. '07 D has always been underrated to me, maybe because Brady and Moss killed it that year.

Too many plays in big spots? I forget the exact stat but didn't they give up a grand total of 6 points in the fourth quarter in their last 8 or 9 games?

I'll agree on the 07 defense though. They were very good.

 

[Nikolai]

It's difficult to directly compare the 2014 and 2016 defenses because of the disparity in scheduling, and relatively high turnover in the meantime (Revis, Wilfork, Chandler Jones, Collins, Browner, Arrington, Ayers, Mayo). The 2014 defense was for real, though. I'm not sure it's smart to minimize that.

What I know about the 2016 defense is that it complements the 2016 offense very well, and if both bring their B+ games or better, it's a comfortable win against almost any opponent this year.

If both bring their A games, no one is going to beat us.

 

[PatsGirl2011]

Too many plays in big spots? I forget the exact stat but didn't they give up a grand total of 6 points in the fourth quarter in their last 8 or 9 games?

I'll agree on the 07 defense though. They were very good.

I don't recall the stats, but I remember Browner was getting burned a lot and they struggled against Flacco in the Divisional round. They owned Luck in the AFCCG, and contained Russell for the most part aside from a few plays.
The '14 team took time to gel, but it was the most talented team since '07, imo.

 

[deroc5050]

It's clear that the Patriots have a good defense. You cannot possibly lead the NFL in points allowed without being at least a good defense. Are they the "best" defense? Who knows. Who cares? We know that they are a good defense that is capable of playing well. Will they play well in the biggest moments? None of us knows. They could be victimized by bad penalties, weird plays, bounces of the ball, and poor field position. Or they could force three turnovers and dominate. We have no idea.

As best we can tell, they have a good, solid defense, and along with excellent special teams and a really good offense, make the Patriots the best all around team left in the tournament.

And they have home field advantage. So that helps too.

There is always just plain dumb luck that comes into play in a 1 game playoff elimination. So no matter how good the D or O is, flags, or lucky plays can change an outcome. Especially in tight games.

And we all keep hearing the Pats have owned the Steelers in the TB/BB era.. Hopefully the pendulum doesn't swing in the other direction.

 

[drewskie]

The 2014 defense had the bigger names (Revis, Collins, Jones, Wilfork, Browner) but one can make an argument this is a better defense as a group. We will find out soon enough.

 

[shmessy]

Peter King (celebrity/names NFL writer for MMQB.com) thinks very little of the Patriots Secondary:

Aaron Rodgers’ throw leads NFL divisional playoffs | The MMQB with Peter King

Among the gems:

"Because each quarterback likes to play almost entirely from the pocket, and because each defense has some backfield vulnerability......"

Conflating Butler/Ryan/McCourty/Chung with the amateur hour of the Steeler secondary??????? I guess his Celebrity/Names column doesn't travel to football watching.

 

[Ring 6]

I don't think you can answer whether the 2014 D or 2016 D was better yet. The story isn't over.

What you have so far, is the 2016 D was statistically better in most measures, by a lot in some.
2016 allowed 63 fewer points. That is a lot. Almost every statistic is better in 2016 than 2014.

The counter argument is the 2014 defense played a tougher schedule.
But how do you account for that difference? You are not worse because you play an easier team and do better. The quality of a team or defense isn't defined by its schedule, but by what it does. There is no way to quantify doing better is worse because of who you did it against.
Again its like saying the 2014 defense would be worse than the 2014 defense if it played the 2016 schedule, just because of who it played, even if it played better.

As far as looking at the players, its not crystal clear.
I think the DL is better now. I will take Flowers over Jones today. I will especially take Flowers over the Jones we always saw after Thanksgiving. The depth at DE is also better. At DT 2016 is better. Vince was not prime Vince in 2014, and Branch 2016 is better than Vince 2014 (but not close to prime vince). The #2 DT who played the 2nd most snaps in 2014 was Chris Jones. Enough said.

At LB, its tricky. Hightower and Collins (and lets face it we are a 2 LB team and the 3rd LB plays less than than the 4th DE) are better than Hightower and the combination of guys we are using, but the 2016 LB group has played better than the 2014. Its pretty obvious too, and I don't know why, but somehow the mixing and matching has resulted in a very effective unit.

In the secondary, the safety position is unchanged, and I think the players are at pretty much their same level.
Revis vs Butler favors Revis, but not enormously, but the CB2-4 have been better this year than in 2014. Ryan is playing better, and Rowe has outplayed Browner, especially due to all of the back breaking penalties. People forget Browner was not a full time player.

Ultimately this defense has 2 opportunities to go out on the field and prove how good it is. I think the answer comes after that.