Butler visiting Saints

[QuantumMechanic]

So what? If Malcolm Butler refuses to sign the qualifying offer his contract is tolled.

So what? Restricted free agent Malcolm Butler's agent has already said that if restricted free agent Malcolm Butler doesn't get any offers from anyone restricted free agent Malcolm Butler will sign the tender offered by the New England Patriots, will report on time, and will play out restricted free agent Malcolm Butler's one year contract and become an unrestricted free agent.

 

[supafly]

So what? If Malcolm Butler refuses to sign the qualifying offer his contract is tolled.

In what world would Butler refuse to sign the tender by the due date (4/21)? That would continue to guarantee him low pay. That's the exact opposite of what he wants.

He'll either make around 4m dollars, or he'll make double digit millions on a new deal. He isn't going to refuse signing the tender so he can continue to make 600k.

 

[kennyb]

I like the"why should the pats take less than the 11th pick?".

Duh, because they cant get that. They can take NO's offer or decline and keep him. They may keep him at 3.9 for all i know. Or maybe butler doesnt like the deal they offer him and that's that.

Theoretically if new orleans really liked him, theyd sign him and then NE could match or take the 11th pick. No chance of that. Zero. Theyd be utterly insane to do that and im confident they're not.

If NE insists on the 11th pick, then no trade. It's a waste of time to insist on what was never on the table.

It's like me saying "why should i take less than a million dollars for my used camry? You want it bad? Pay up!". Someone may want the car, but not at that price.

 

[ATippett56]

I sure as **** know more about it than you do considering you thought Butler was currently under contract with the Patriots and 3 posters (including myself) had to disabuse you of that erroneous notion.

He hasn't signed the tender yet. Once the framework for a new deal is worked out, he'll certainly sign it so he can get traded and paid. Supposedly, that's what he and his agent are currently doing in N.Orleans.

The only questions are whether another team actually signs him to a formal offer sheet (highly doubtful in my opinion) which would give us a first rounder as compensation, or whether he signs it and NE trades him for something else.

As noted by XLIX, it's still possible that Belichick keeps him for one last year, too. Although opinions may differ on how high those odds are, it still remains a distinct possibility.

The New England Patriots can drag the process out as long as Malcolm Butler refuses to sign the qualifying offer. Oh wait, the New England Patriots already have experience dealing in this matter with Logan Mankins.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The New England Patriots submitted a qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler.

Yes, and? What does repeating over and over a basic fact that everyone knows and no one disputes accomplish?

The qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler does not stop restricted free agent Malcolm Butler from trying to find the best contract restricted free agent Malcolm Butler can find.

The qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler does not allow the New England Patriots to prevent restricted free agent Malcolm Butler from getting the benefits of that contract because either restricted free agent Malcolm Butler gets that contract with the other team or restricted free agent Malcolm Butler gets that identical contract from the New England Patriots.

The qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler does not prevent the New England Patriots and restricted free agent Malcolm Butler from investigating and negotiating a trade to another team.

The only thing the qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler does is (a) reduce restricted free agent Malcolm Butler's market value by forcibly extracting a draft choice (first round in restricted free agent Malcolm Butler's case) from any team that signs restricted free agent Malcolm Butler away, (b) gives the New England Patriots the right to match any contract offered to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler, and (c) imposes a take-it-or-stay-a-restricted-free-agent contract on restricted free agent Malcolm Butler if restricted free agent Malcolm Butler cannot get a contract from another team and cannot agree on mutual terms with the New England Patriots.

 

[ATippett56]

In what world would Butler refuse to sign the tender by the due date (4/21)? That would continue to guarantee him low pay. That's the exact opposite of what he wants.

He'll either make around 4m dollars, or he'll make double digit millions on a new deal. He isn't going to refuse signing the tender so he can continue to make 600k.

Revisit Logan Mankins circa 2010.

www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/logan-mankins-4593/cash-earnings/

 

[QuantumMechanic]

In what world would Butler refuse to sign the tender by the due date (4/21)? That would continue to guarantee him low pay. That's the exact opposite of what he wants.

He'll either make around 4m dollars, or he'll make double digit millions on a new deal. He isn't going to refuse signing the tender so he can continue to make 600k.

Butler actually has until 15 June to sign the tender before he faces a team-option cramdown to 110% of previous salary. The 21 April deadline is only the one for other teams to sign him.

 

[ATippett56]

Yes, and? What does repeating over and over a basic fact that everyone knows and no one disputes accomplish?

The qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler does not stop Malcolm Butler from trying to find the best contract Malcolm Butler can find.

The qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler does not allow the New England Patriots to prevent Malcolm Butler from getting the benefits of that contract because either Malcolm Butler gets that contract with the other team or Malcolm Butler gets that identical contract from the New England Patriots.

The qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler does not prevent the New England Patriots and Malcolm Butler from investigating and negotiating a trade to another team.

The only thing the qualifying offer to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler does is (a) reduce Malcolm Butler's market value by forcibly extracting a draft choice (first round in Malcolm Butler's case) from any team that signs Malcolm Butler away, and (b) gives the New England Patriots the right to match any contract offered to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler.

Malcolm Butler can sign a restricted free agent tender from the New Orleans Saints and the New Orleans Saints, in accordance with the CBA, will surrender their first round draft pick to the New England Patriots if the New England Patriots refuse to match. The New England Patriots are under no obligation whatsoever to negotiate any separate terms or conditions.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Revisit Logan Mankins circa 2010.

www.spotrac.com/nfl/tampa-bay-buccaneers/logan-mankins-4593/cash-earnings/

And that wasn't a particularly brilliant move by Mankins because he ended up earning a bunch less than he could have that year (between the cramdown and missed pay during the holdout) and ended up at the same place he would have been at if he had signed the tender.

So again, there's no reason (other than wanting to be a stubborn git like Mankins) to not sign the tender if he doesn't get offers from other teams.

 

[XLIX]

The New England Patriots can drag the process out as long as Malcolm Butler refuses to sign the qualifying offer. Oh wait, the New England Patriots already have experience dealing in this matter with Logan Mankins.

When you say "qualifying offer" do you mean the RFA tender or an offer sheet he could potentially receive from another team? You clearly don't understand this process or the terminology so it is tough to tell what exactly you are trying to say.

 

[supafly]

The New England Patriots can drag the process out as long as Malcolm Butler refuses to sign the qualifying offer. Oh wait, the New England Patriots already have experience dealing in this matter with Logan Mankins.

You still haven't answered why a guy who was working at Popeye's and hasn't made **** would refuse to sign the tender and receive a substantial pay raise.

You can continue trying to compare him to a former first round pick who was in his 6th season and had made more money, but I don't see the comparison as extremely relevant aside from it's someone else who signed the tender later in the season.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Malcolm Butler can sign a restricted free agent tender from the New Orleans Saints and the New Orleans Saints, in accordance with the CBA, will surrender their first round draft pick to the New England Patriots if the New England Patriots refuse to match. The New England Patriots are under no obligation whatsoever to negotiate any separate terms or conditions.

The New Orleans Saints are not going to give a restricted free agent tender to restricted free agent Malcolm Butler.

So if the New England Patriots would like to see restricted free agent Malcolm Butler end up with the New Orleans Saints in return for draft choices or other consideration, the New England Patriots are going to have to negotiate separate terms and conditions with the New Orleans Saints regardless of being under no obligation to do so.

 

[XLIX]

Malcolm Butler can sign a restricted free agent tender from the New Orleans Saints and the New Orleans Saints, in accordance with the CBA, will surrender their first round draft pick to the New England Patriots if the New England Patriots refuse to match. The New England Patriots are under no obligation whatsoever to negotiate any separate terms or conditions.

That's true, but reports are that they are indeed negotiating with the Saints on this matter and some believe they would settle for less than #11. It's all rumor and speculation, but hardly ridiculously out of the realm of possibility that they take #32 for Butler.

 

[ATippett56]

So if the New England Patriots would like to see restricted free agent Malcolm Butler end up with the New Orleans Saints in return for draft choices or other consideration, the New England Patriots are going to have to negotiate separate terms and conditions with the New Orleans Saints regardless of being under no obligation to do so.

Without Malcolm Butler signing a restricted free agent offer sheet, in accordance with the CBA, the New Orleans Saints have no leverage whatsoever. The New England Patriots can tell the New Orleans Saints to go pound sand and the New Orleans Saints can't do anything about it. So without Malcolm Butler signing a restricted free agent offer sheet, Malcolm Butler will be under the direct control of the New England Patriots as of the end of business day, 21 April 2017.

www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000765416/article/national-football-league-important-dates-for-2017

 

[ATippett56]

When you say "qualifying offer" do you mean the RFA tender or an offer sheet he could potentially receive from another team? You clearly don't understand this process or the terminology so it is tough to tell what exactly you are trying to say.

You don't even know the terminology which proves don't understand the process.

www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000765416/article/national-football-league-important-dates-for-2017

 

[XLIX]

You don't even know the terminology which proves don't understand the process.

www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000765416/article/national-football-league-important-dates-for-2017

Quite the contrary... I know the terms but wanted to make sure I understood what you were talking about since you have established you just don't understand the process. All I did was ask a question in good faith. It's not my fault you don't have the first clue about this process.

The reason why I asked the question is because if you truly meant the qualifying offer, then you're wrong. The Patriots can't "drag it out as long as they want to." Any team could force their hand at any time.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Without Malcolm Butler signing a restricted free agent tender, in accordance with the CBA, the New Orleans Saints have no leverage whatsoever. The New England Patriots can tell the New Orleans Saints to go pound sand and the New Orleans Saints can't do anything about it. So without Malcolm Butler signing a restricted free agent tender, Malcolm Butler will be under the direct control of the New England Patriots as of the end of business day, 21 April 2017.

The New Orleans Saints do not "have no leverage whatsoever". The New Orleans Saints have the considerable leverage of saying "The New Orleans Saints are not interested in giving up the #11 pick. If the New England Patriots want the New Orleans Saints to take restricted free agent Malcolm Butler off the New England Patriots' hands in return for any draft choices whatsoever, the New England Patriots will need to negotiate with the New Orleans Saints."

If New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick feels he wants draft choices in exchange for restricted free agent Malcolm Butler then New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick will need to negotiate because if New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick does not negotiate with the New Orleans Saints then the New England Patriots will not be getting anything from the New Orleans Saints. And the New England Patriots will not be receiving draft choices from any other team either unless the New England Patriots negotiate a trade because nobody bothers to attempt to sign away first-round-tendered restricted free agents.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The Patriots can't "drag it out as long as they want to." Any team could force their hand at any time.

Well, force their hand at any time before 21 April.

 

[ATippett56]

The New Orleans Saints do not "have no leverage whatsoever". The New Orleans Saints have the considerable leverage of saying "The New Orleans Saints are not interested in giving up the #11 pick. If the New England Patriots want the New Orleans Saints to take restricted free agent Malcolm Butler off the New England Patriots' hands in return for any draft choices whatsoever, the New England Patriots will need to negotiate with the New Orleans Saints."

If New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick feels he wants draft choices in exchange for restricted free agent Malcolm Butler then New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick will need to negotiate because if New England Patriots Head Coach Bill Belichick does not negotiate with the New Orleans Saints then the New England Patriots will not be getting anything from the New Orleans Saints. And the New England Patriots will not be receiving draft choices from any other team either unless the New England Patriots negotiate a trade because nobody bothers to attempt to sign away first-round-tendered restricted free agents.

Without Malcolm Butler signing a restricted free agent offer sheet, the New Orleans Saints have no leverage whatsoever. The New England Patriots can force Malcolm Butler to play out his contract with the New England Patriots or Malcolm Butler can sit out the entire 2017 NFL Season and whole process can be repeated yet again.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

The New England Patriots can force Malcolm Butler to play out his contract with the New England Patriots or Malcolm Butler can sit out the entire 2017 NFL Season and whole process can be repeated yet again.

That's all true. And completely irrelevant. If Belichick wants draft picks from New Orleans in return for Butler he will have to negotiate for them. Because New Orleans isn't giving Butler an offer.