Patriots Rumor Butler & Saints working towards finalizing a deal (Thread now UFC Pats Fans Event)

[VrabelMayeWin]

@QuantumMechanic disagrees with my post... so apparently he must feel losing Butler makes our secondary stronger and Cooks is a surefire guarantee to takeoff here in New England

¯\_(?)_/¯

The problem is we have no idea if Butler would be a stand alone trade or part two of the Cooks trade. I suspect the latter - in which case we shouldn't judge this by itself - but I don't know and neither does anyone else here.

 

[50-yard-line]

But there is no reason to believe that there is any kind of agreement. It flies in the face of logic.
At best butler was part of the discussion or a secondary trade they talked about.
The implication that BB would accept an obligation to trade butler there despite other offers is silly and would be negligent on bbs part and he does not do things that are not best for his team.

Absolutely agree, and will add that the Patriots gave the best offer for Cooks. THere is no quid for the pro here.

 

[moosekill]

I agree somewhat. On the surface, this deal seems like a solid, even trade: Malcolm Butler for Bradin Cooks (a younger, more talented player on a bargain rookie contract) and a swap of draft picks.

But the thing is... Butler is an established defensive stud with above-average to elite skills and championship bona-fides. Cooks on the other hand, while he has greater upside and potential, still has to learn our playbook and develop chemistry with Brady. There's no certainty that he will work out here in New England.

I certainly want New Orleans to return our first rounder, but if the Patriots are going to take on the greater risk, then the Saints should also have to part ways with their #42 (2nd round) or #76 (3rd round).

EDIT: By the way... losing Butler weakens a key position in our defense.... again, NOLA must give more than a 1st rounder to compensate for this short-term loss.

Of course you have to remember you get two years of cheap Cooks, vs what I imagine is Butler at top dollar. You can't forget the money, it really does matter.

 

[Soul_Survivor88]

Of course you have to remember you get two years of cheap Cooks, vs what I imagine is Butler at top dollar. You can't forget the money, it really does matter.

True...

 

[VrabelMayeWin]

Of course you have to remember you get two years of cheap Cooks, vs what I imagine is Butler at top dollar. You can't forget the money, it really does matter.

Cooks is also 3 1/2 years younger than Butler. There's still more growth potential (football skill, not size) for Cooks. Given his age, BB may be happy to pay big money to a 25 year old Cooks when he's a UFA. Butler will be 28 when he's due to be a UFA. Although Butler is younger than that in football years, and Gilmore is "only 1 year, 3 months younger, those ages are big for a CB.

 

[sambam94]

Of course you have to remember you get two years of cheap Cooks, vs what I imagine is Butler at top dollar. You can't forget the money, it really does matter.

one year cheap..2018 would be $8.5m

 

[pdangle]

I think this whole thing is a similar public relations agent move from BB as just shown in the HT situation.

Firsty, the Cooks deal is a separate entity. No hidden promises, 2 for 1's, winks-winks or anything like that. Not BB's style, and too many variables or newly interested 3rd parties butting in that could go wrong for either team.

Butler's agent did not believe the offer the pats gave his RFA client was fair/market value. BB said, well then go work out a deal with an interested team and see. Obviously any such deal would have to factor in the loss of the team's first rounder. Just as BB had factored in the extra cost with his offer. Perhaps which, the agent didn't quite understand or value the pick highly enough. NO had just shown interest, so logically that's where they started, and off they went to make a deal.

And so, they did. The agent went to NO and said what type of contract would you give my client? They hammered a deal out. Probably right in line as everyone has said, in the 7M-8M AAV 3-4 yrs range factoring the loss of the NO first, the 11th.

Why wasn't a deal done? They know the offer is fair/market, just not worth signing. More importantly for NE, and as planned, they now also know BB wasn't screwing them with his offer either. It is what it is. Take a now-known-as-fair fair RFA extension deal or play on the tender, assume 1 year of risk, and get the big UFA deal next season. From the looks of it they're going to roll the dice and cash in as a UFA. Or, maybe try to find a team with a later 1st rounder with a more tempting offer, but they know that's not very likely to really move the compensation needle satisfactorily.

In any case, for the UFA plan to work and succeed you need to be a good soldier. If you're planning on shooting your way out of town as a RFA forcing a trade, sitting out or pouting, you don't go sign some autographs and say you want to be a Patriot for life. So I think what we're now seeing is a more realistic Butler, less worried about, or not believing in a fair market RFA offer, playing nice, here for another year and about to play some serious contract year ball paving the way for his big UFA deal after another high profile Super Bowl run!

 

[Soliel]

There will be a quid pro quo if butler is traded... Better start hoping we dont face the saints in the super bowl

 

[Froob]

There will be a quid pro quo if butler is traded... Better start hoping we dont face the saints in the super bowl

We won't, they will be 7-9 again.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why in the world we want to send good players to a conference rival, though? That doesn't make much sense to me.

On the surface it makes zero sense.

Its one of those BB moves where he KNOWS the player- while good will not derail his team's march to a championship.

For all we know he could think Jimmy is the next Drew Bledsoe and Malcolm a very good but not a great CB

 

[SomePatsFan13]

I will cry if we lose Butler.

He is my second favorite Patriot.

In any case, thank you Malcom and I wish you a ton of luck on whatever team you join, but I'm unfollowing you on instagram if that's the case.

Love ya, 21!

(Chances we sign Sherman should we lose The Butler?)

 

[supafly]

I will cry if we lose Butler.

He is my second favorite Patriot.

In any case, thank you Malcom and I wish you a ton of luck on whatever team you join, but I'm unfollowing you on instagram if that's the case.

Love ya, 21!

(Chances we sign Sherman should we lose The Butler?)

Can't imagine Belichick not wanting to extend Butler at around 10m per year (per reports from Butler's camp), but then turn around and have to part with major draft capital (first round plus) to bring in a SECOND outsider at corner, who he then has to pay 14m a year--again.

Butler: no picks needed, affordable CB1/CB2.

vs.

Sherman: at least a first needed, likely more. Also comes with major pricetag.

 

[Soliel]

For all we know he could think Jimmy is the next Drew Bledsoe and Malcolm a very good but not a great CB[/QUOTE]

I agree. Every time ive been angry over a trade it wound up working. So, im just glad that ive been wrong.

 

[SomePatsFan13]

Can't imagine Belichick not wanting to extend Butler at around 10m per year (per reports from Butler's camp), but then turn around and have to part with major draft capital (first round plus) to bring in a SECOND outsider, who he then has to pay 14m a year.

Butler: no picks needed, affordable CB1/CB2.

vs.

Sherman: at least a first needed, likely more. Also comes with major pricetag.

Yeah I hear you.

I was just mulling around that idea because Butler seems to be entertaining this FA period; it almost smells of Jamie Collins' departure (almost-- the two situations are very different; what I'm referring to is the feel of Bill being willing to lose a great, great defensive player, most likely for the greater good).

If we lose Butler because he wants to earn more money, then I think getting Sherman in on a reasonable deal is a great trade off. I mean Butler is a great player and I love em, but Sherman is still the premier CB in the NFL and yeah I'd pay to have him.

But I'm not Bill so...

 

[pherein]

Everyone seems to have this in the "done deal" stack. I'm not so sure. He didn't come back with a contract proposal, so I'm not sure his demands were reached. I'm still wondering what kind of a deal the Pats are offering, since he's come back without even an incling of his intensions to leave.

In fact he's doing a promo appearance at some store today. I don't think you do that if you know you have a top of the market CB contract in your immediate future. Maybe NO didn't offer what he wanted. Maybe it will be close enough for the Pats to match.

THEN there is the football issues of whether Butler is the best CB for the defense they want to run, and in the division that they are in, and the for a top dollar price. So there they are, up against the cap as it is, and to sign butler they will have to backed load the deal which has significant ramifications for the future.

If I were a Saints fan, I might just be wondering if the 32nd pick might not be the better option, for a defense that isn't going to be cured simply by signing Malcolm Butler. It's not like he's the ONE player that makes him into a superbowl contender (no offense pherein)

Its np its a great post, you make alot of great points. Butler isnt going to solve it all.

 

[Pats1989]

Very disappointed that Butler will be gone. With that said, I've learned through the years not to get too attached with the players.

 

[DarrylS]

Seems because MB has left the Saints Bldg. that this is seeming less and less of a possibility..

Sign the tender MB, as it seems no other team wants to engage in serious negotiations, then discuss a contract extension beginning in the 2018 league year..

Note to MB, get a better NFL agent not "just a guy"..

 

[luuked]

Seems because MB has left the Saints Bldg. that this is seeming less and less of a possibility..

Sign the tender MB, as it seems no other team wants to engage in serious negotiations, then discuss a contract extension beginning in the 2018 league year..

Note to MB, get a better NFL agent not "just a guy"..

There was no scenario in which he would leave the Saints Bldg. with a contract. It means nothing.

 

[DarrylS]

There was no scenario in which he would leave the Saints Bldg. with a contract. It means nothing.

So you believe he can still work out something with the Saints & Patriots?? Found it interesting that Payton was on the radio the same day praising MB..IMO it sounds like that ship sailed from NOLA... Maybe Payton and Derek Simpson like to negotiate in the press??

Saints' Sean Payton offers praise on Malcolm Butler, says visit was 'good'

 

[convertedpatsfan]

one year cheap..2018 would be $8.5m

The WR franchise tag is a touch under $14.6M. Cooks at $8.5M would be the 20th-highest paid WR, in line with Michael Crabtree. So it may be the largest WR cap hit on the Patriots in a while (potentially ever considering our general spending on the position), but it's still not near the top of the market.