Building A Team With A QB Who Is Close To The Top 10

[Wozzy]

I have a great deal of faith in Jones as a person and a player, but it’s on Belichick to get him the help he needs, and if he doesn’t that’s where I’m going to place the blame. The only caveat to that would be if Jones didn’t do the work to get better and that was obvious. But I believe he will do that work. Belichick is going to have to make philosophical changes to team building, snd place more emphasis on skill players to get them back on top.

There’s a subsection of NFL fans who believe “weapons” are the answer to everything.

Execution doesn’t exist in these people’s minds. Scheme, blocking, the opposing D… none of these things matter. It’s a ridiculous take. This is real world football we’re talking about with real humans, not a Madden simulation.

The weapons weren’t a problem last year. Blocking, scheme, turnovers/fumbles, a rookie QB… these things were.

 

[Ivan]

There’s a subsection of NFL fans who believe “weapons” are the answer to everything.

Execution doesn’t exist in these people’s minds. Scheme, blocking, the opposing D… none of these things matter. It’s a ridiculous take. This is real world football we’re talking about with real humans, not a Madden simulation.

The weapons weren’t a problem last year. Blocking, scheme, turnovers/fumbles, a rookie QB… these things were.

I don’t disagree about the importance of fundamentals but therule changes are heavily weighted towards scoring, so having playmakers has become magnified. Teams that can’t challenge defenses both wide and deep are at an extreme disadvantage, and that’s where the Patriots are limited. This makes life easy for opposing defenses, and the fact that someone as credible and knowledgeable as scar is saying this publicly gives credence to that. The Patriots playoff performance against Buffalo showed their llimitations and need to get faster on defense, and much more explosive on offense.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Why? Opinions is what this place is about.
My opinion is that it's unfair to put Lamar Jackson in any discussion of QBs. He's an outstanding runner playing the position of QB.

No opinions are fine but ignoring what actually happens on field is just dumb. Its fine to "like or dislike" a player or prospect but when that clouds your entire outlook and judgement you look insecure and frankly like you don't know what you're talking about. Like your opinion of Jackson. It's fine not to like the player but pretending he's not a QB screams insecurity and again like you don't know what you're talking about. Like he has to check boxes for you. I say that bc I can't think of another serious football analyst or person that holds that opinion.

Like if that's the only thing shaping your opinion it's hard to take to seriously. You're ignoring stats, what happens on the field etc That's not smart and an approach you wouldn't take in other walks of life. If you're opening a business you're doing research, talking to people in the field and gathering information to make a sound decision.

You're probably older though so I can see why you think like this. Change is hard but if you don't roll with you become irrelevant man. Just being honest not trying to be a DH.

 

[jdlboot14]

I think HOU will end up sticking with Mills, but if they don't, wonder if that's a place for Jimmy G?
If not, I think the Colts would be best suited for Jimmy at this point.
What on earth happens to Mayfield? I don't see him going to CAR or NO. Maybe SEA as a flyer option?
Winston is the best option for NO.
But I think CAR is the one without a chair. They'll probably draft Pickett, and maybe let Darnold bridge this year.

 

[Ivan]

There’s a subsection of NFL fans who believe “weapons” are the answer to everything.

Execution doesn’t exist in these people’s minds. Scheme, blocking, the opposing D… none of these things matter. It’s a ridiculous take. This is real world football we’re talking about with real humans, not a Madden simulation.

The weapons weren’t a problem last year. Blocking, scheme, turnovers/fumbles, a rookie QB… these things were.

I have never been on the “ weapons are everything,” and if anything have been on the opposite side of that argument for years, but if you don’t think rule changes have changed the game to favor offense then you have your head in the sand. And if you think that their offense is just fine at WR then once again I think you are being myopic. The Patriots have a decent offense in terms of their run game and possession receivers, but they have absolutely no ability to force defenses to cover the entire field, or strike quickly, and the fact the Scaris calling this out makes it obvious that view is shared by people who are truly in the know.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I think you're misreading things. It's not that very good to elite QBs are needed to win a SB. It's that elite QBs are need to remain consistently at the top. It's a big difference. Eli and the Giants are probably the best example of it.

Oh I agree.

Elite QB's will widen the window.

In my opinion, teams like Philly (Foles), Bucs (Johnson) were one offs. Yes you get your SB. But what about adding to the one? Here today. Very much gone tomorrow.

The Giants actually had a golden chance to repeat in 2008. Most mid season had them as SB favorites. But Burress shot himself in the leg and it all went down hill. I do believe they are in the SB again with him.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

I think HOU will end up sticking with Mills, but if they don't, wonder if that's a place for Jimmy G?
If not, I think the Colts would be best suited for Jimmy at this point.
What on earth happens to Mayfield? I don't see him going to CAR or NO. Maybe SEA as a flyer option?
Winston is the best option for NO.
But I think CAR is the one without a chair. They'll probably draft Pickett, and maybe let Darnold bridge this year.

I have a feeling Mayfield will be a backup or out of the league by 2024 at the latest.

He's had four years. QB's don't just suddenly become elite in year 5. His flaws are huge flaws.

 

[Ivan]

I have a feeling Mayfield will be a backup or out of the league by 2024 at the latest.

He's had four years. QB's don't just suddenly become elite in year 5. His flaws are huge flaws.

Disagree. With so many teams in need of a QB Mayfield will have a market, He’s in the same boat as Garrapolo imo.Carolina, Indy, Seattle, and New Orleans are all in dire need of a QB, and I would expect Garrapolo and Mayfield to end up with starter jobs for two of them.

 

[MahomestoKelce]

Disagree. With so many teams in need of a QB Mayfield will have a market, He’s in the same boat as Garrapolo imo.Carolina, Indy, Seattle, and New Orleans are all in dire need of a QB, and I would expect Garrapolo and Mayfield to end up with starter jobs for two of them.

Oh I definitely think he starts this season. Maybe next too.

I just meant its unlikely said team will see enough to keep him as starter in year 3.

Historically, there are signs a QB is going to be elite within first few years. Signs were there with Manning in year 1 despite interceptions. You could see it with Brady by the end of 03. His third year starting. Rodgers was considered elite (Top 6 or so) after 09 (Year 2 starting). There are exceptions I suppose.

 

[Ivan]

There’s a subsection of NFL fans who believe “weapons” are the answer to everything.

Execution doesn’t exist in these people’s minds. Scheme, blocking, the opposing D… none of these things matter. It’s a ridiculous take. This is real world football we’re talking about with real humans, not a Madden simulation.

The weapons weren’t a problem last year. Blocking, scheme, turnovers/fumbles, a rookie QB… these things were.

You are painting this as an either or situation when it isn’t. Every good team needs fundamental execution, but great teams can no longer get by on defense and fundamentals alone. You need the ability to threaten and burn defenses, as well as put up significant points, otherwise you won’t make it far in the tournament, as Both the Patriots and Titans proved last season.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

There’s a subsection of NFL fans who believe “weapons” are the answer to everything.

Execution doesn’t exist in these people’s minds. Scheme, blocking, the opposing D… none of these things matter. It’s a ridiculous take. This is real world football we’re talking about with real humans, not a Madden simulation.

The weapons weren’t a problem last year. Blocking, scheme, turnovers/fumbles, a rookie QB… these things were.

The rookie QB played well enough to get this team to 12–5 or maybe even 13–4.

 

[mgteich]

Disagree. With so many teams in need of a QB Mayfield will have a market, He’s in the same boat as Garrapolo imo.Carolina, Indy, Seattle, and New Orleans are all in dire need of a QB, and I would expect Garrapolo and Mayfield to end up with starter jobs for two of them.

Garrapolo and Baker for 2 of the 4 spots; Winston back to NO; and CAR drafting a QB. It is seems easy enough. I guess that means that we'll be surprised.

I think that Mayfield to the Colts works because Mayfield is ready to play.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Where is the move the chains player that Dante Scar was referring to?

James White? Dante was alluding to an Edelman/Welker type. Even Almendola sufficed just fine when Edelman got hurt.

You can’t have Jones throwing to receivers who can’t get open. When Nelson Agholor is your #1 WR then you don’t have a #1WR. People complain about how vanilla their offense is but they don’t have any WR’s who can get open downfield or outside the hashes. Jones has to throw to guys who would be the 3rd and 4th options on most teams. When Dante Scarnecchia is going public with the need for playmakers you know they have a real problem there.

This was the point I was making with my original post. He is not equipped to go into shootouts against good teams as demonstrated against the Bills two times in a row.

By “making him throw” means the D stopped the run game, has a lead and is forcing Mac go throw to his mediocre at best WR’s. I was also referencing his lack of velocity on his throws as well. He really needs to improve that this offseason.

 

[lancerman]

Brady
Mahomes
Rodgers
Allen
Wilson
Watson
Herbert
Burrow
Stafford
Jackson
Prescott
Murray



Tough to see a path into the top 10 for him, this year.

Even if he hypothetically was a top 10 QB. Nobody with our level of receivers is going to look it. Brady is throwing to Evans, Godwin and presumably Gronk. Mahomes has Hill and Kelce. Allen has Diggs. Wilson has Jeudy and Sutton. Herbert has Allen. Burrow has Chase. Stafford has Kupp and possibly OBJ. Murray has Hoplins. Jackson has Brown. Prescott has Gallup and Lamb. Watson has Cooper now and potentially Landry.

Rodgers is the only one who you could question his receiving corp capabilities in comparison to Mac and let's be real, Mac ain't taking a big enough jump to get over the 2x reigning MVP next year.

So even if he ended up being level with them, he has the biggest hill to climb to show it of all of them.

 

[Wozzy]

I don’t disagree about the importance of fundamentals but therule changes are heavily weighted towards scoring, so having playmakers has become magnified. Teams that can’t challenge defenses both wide and deep are at an extreme disadvantage, and that’s where the Patriots are limited. This makes life easy for opposing defenses, and the fact that someone as credible and knowledgeable as scar is saying this publicly gives credence to that. The Patriots playoff performance against Buffalo showed their llimitations and need to get faster on defense, and much more explosive on offense.

The Patriots folded up their tent and went home earlier than the playoff game versus Buffalo... it was immediately after the bye week.

 

[Wozzy]

I have never been on the “ weapons are everything,” and if anything have been on the opposite side of that argument for years, but if you don’t think rule changes have changed the game to favor offense then you have your head in the sand. And if you think that their offense is just fine at WR then once again I think you are being myopic. The Patriots have a decent offense in terms of their run game and possession receivers, but they have absolutely no ability to force defenses to cover the entire field, or strike quickly, and the fact the Scaris calling this out makes it obvious that view is shared by people who are truly in the know.

Why'd you answer me twice on the same post?

The Patriots offense ranked 6th in scoring. The rules haven't changed in the past few years.

Nelson Agholor had the second best yards per reception in 2020, now he's not a deep threat or weapon in 2021 because he had rookie Mac Jones throwing to him versus Derek Carr? Agholor is fast, Tre Nixon is fast. Scar said we needed a slot WR, perhaps he's right, but that has nothing to do with stretching the field to force opponents to cover every inch. They'll need a return man now with Gunner gone, that could come from a WR. We'll see...

 

[Ivan]

Why'd you answer me twice on the same post?

The Patriots offense ranked 6th in scoring. The rules haven't changed in the past few years.

Nelson Agholor had the second best yards per reception in 2020, now he's not a deep threat or weapon in 2021 because he had rookie Mac Jones throwing to him versus Derek Carr? Agholor is fast, Tre Nixon is fast. Scar said we needed a slot WR, perhaps he's right, but that has nothing to do with stretching the field to force opponents to cover every inch. They'll need a return man now with Gunner gone, that could come from a WR. We'll see...

You can think the Patriots have a good WR corps, I don’t, mediocre would be stretching it.

 

[Wozzy]

You are painting this as an either or situation when it isn’t. Every good team needs fundamental execution, but great teams can no longer get by on defense and fundamentals alone. You need the ability to threaten and burn defenses, as well as put up significant points, otherwise you won’t make it far in the tournament, as Both the Patriots and Titans proved last season.

Why did you respond to me three times on the same post?

You can't say there's a desperate need for weapons when the Patriots were poor at execution and pretend it had nothing to do with it.

The Patriots scored the 6th most points in the league per offensive drive. Perhaps if they blocked better, weren't 17th in the NFL in turnovers and 23rd in fumbles lost they would have scored a lot more.

 

[Wozzy]

You can think the Patriots have a good WR corps, I don’t, mediocre would be stretching it.

Like I said... the weapons are always bad according to some.

In 2020 when the Bucs offense was struggling because they refused to run the ball and led the league in penalties, I remember some Brady-stan saying it was his weapon's fault... lol!

The 2020 Bucs were probably the greatest collection of weapons in pro football history... but a lack of weapons was the problem. Laughable.

 

[Wozzy]

The rookie QB played well enough to get this team to 12–5 or maybe even 13–4.

So we can pretend he wasn't a rookie, didn't rank 15th in QB Rating, 17th in passing yards per game, 14th in yards per attempt and tied at 4th in most INT's thrown?

It wasn't entirely his fault, they couldn't block early on, people were fumbling the ball like crazy, execution and penalties were spotty at best... but Mac was a rookie. He could improve demonstrably in 2022.