Brady IS the Patriots System

[captain stone]

Cliff.

 

[Mack Herron]

Cliff.

All stats need context and "blitz" defined in various ways. Also pressure up middle more disruptive than edge. Decisions and down field accuracy appear to have declined. Still need to account for WRs, OL and offense in general.

 

[zoostation]

Mike Vrabel was playing chess while Little Billy was playing tiddly-winks.

Are you sure you want to go down that road in support of this thread?

 

[maineman209]

All stats need context and "blitz" defined in various ways. Also pressure up middle more disruptive than edge. Decisions and down field accuracy appear to have declined. Still need to account for WRs, OL and offense in general.

Things that can help neutralize interior pressure (blitz or not):

- Strong IOL
- Excellent RB pass-pro
- Passing targets who can get open quickly (by talent or scheme)
- Mobile QB

 

[supafly]

Things that can help neutralize interior pressure (blitz or not):

- Strong IOL
- Excellent RB pass-pro
- Passing targets who can get open quickly (by talent or scheme)
- Mobile QB

Actual running game should be added to the list. The team is currently sitting at #27 in terms of YPC.

Unless Gordon/Gronk/both just go OFF, the only real way that they’ll be able to make it back to another SB is to add an established running game to the list of weapons.

 

[DarrylS]

The media continually tries to make arguments about the success of the NEP, and usually fail, Cowherd falls into the same trap, his effort does nothing to shed light on the success we have witnessed, instead it is another feeble attempt to get clicks on this piece and justify his existence. He has to justify his salary somehow, might as well be this..

 

[Coolade2]

It's of course not literally true that the Patriots don't have an offensive system.

What's true is that nobody gave a damn about it until Brady came along, even though the Patriots have been using the system since Patriots coaches devised it in the beepin' 1970s.

The mysterious "Patriots system" has been something that was around before most of the people talking about the system were even BORN.

Yeah but it evolves. So Belichick has improved the structure. Basically all the supporting cast which Kraft has facilitated with actual structure..lol. Stadium, patriot place etc... The layers of winning culture go deep here. Brady is integral part and it was built around him. So.. 64k question is what's it gonna look like with next guy..? Hahaha. Gonna have to wait. We shall see.

 

[1960Pats]

I am old enough to say I was there, but I'll humor your calling out the accuracy of my memory.

From Bill Simmons (Oct. 1, 2002): "People spent the entire offseason questioning Brady, wondering if he was a flash in the pan like David Caruso or Edie Brickell, wondering if the Pats made the right move in keeping him over Drew Bledsoe ... and it never made sense to me. "

Yes, it did happen. But I won't debate your memory as you didn't offer anything of substance to dispute in terms of an actual contemporaneous link to an article or video. I'm sure Bill Simmons just made that up during the 2002 season. Or you can read this Globe article that just happens to compare Brady and Bledsoe (with Brady failing against a weak defense and Bledsoe succeeding).

I checked the stats before I stated that, but thanks for posting the stats in questioning my recollection. Pro Football Reference has Bledsoe with a rating of 86 and Brady with 85.7. Nice tweak with the 85 rating for Bledsoe, though, placing him below Brady. You dropped a point somewhere. I checked my handy rating calculator, and Pro Football Reference is correct in that. You are not. I was comparing respective ratings, as that seems to be the neutral measure of performance for QBs. I wasn't looking for a metrics debate after that. The Bills and Patriots offenses were comparable to within 2 points (Pats 2 more points, Bills a few hundred more yards) and 1 win on the season, which doesn't exactly point to a clear winner in Brady as you suggest.

And one more factual correction. Brady was in the Pro Bowl for the 2001 season (he did not return until 2004). Bledsoe was in the Pro Bowl for the 2002 season (the season I was discussing). The asterisk next to the season in Pro Football Reference shows the Pro Bowl seasons. You can look that up for yourself.

I can be a witness to your memory. The amount of fans who still wanted Bledsoe over Brady was substantial, even after the Pats won the SB in 2001. I definitely was not one of them but there were plenty. Even today I can call up one of my ex-coworkers (Pats season ticket holder) and get into the same arguments.

Winning is what matters most, not yards passing, TD's, QBR or anything else. Brady has proven that he's the best winner in the history of the game.

 

[1960Pats]

The Bill or Tom argument comes up all the time. I'm firmly in the Tom camp. We have plenty of examples of Bill without Tom or the Pats without Tom, and they have not been nearly as successful.

Brady is the reason they win and we'll see that after he's done.

 

[Jackson 2]

The Bill or Tom argument comes up all the time. I'm firmly in the Tom camp. We have plenty of examples of Bill without Tom or the Pats without Tom, and they have not been nearly as successful.

Brady is the reason they win and we'll see that after he's done.

I think you're being dismissive of and under-rating the significance of Belichick as a coach and Kraft as an owner, to mention just a couple of other important elements in the success.of the team. I agree that Brady has been the central figure and none of it would have happened without him. But, I don't think he's been the entire story.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

“I am Queen’s Boulevard”
-Vincent Chase

 

[Calhoun44]

The system is Discipline, Brady is fine following orders so he stays the QB under BB. Players that can't follow orders regularly don't last around Foxboro.

 

[mosslost]

People who say this usually point to the Patriots going 14-6 with Cassel, JG and Brissett as “evidence”. Problem with that logic is they missed the playoffs in 08 because they couldn’t beat good teams anymore and despite a 3-1 record they clearly were not a Super Bowl contender if Brady had missed all of 2016- quite a bit short of where they actually ended up. It’s clear as day what the difference is between a great team with Brady and just another team without him.

To be fair - I disagree with Cowherd criticizing Belichick’s record without Brady. He turned the Browns to a very good team before Modell pulled the plug on the franchise. And the Browns didn’t fire him... the Ravens didn’t hire him. There’s a difference. Belichick does have a lot to do with our success. Put Belichick on the 2011 Colts and they are a lot better than 1-15 when they lost Manning. Put a bad coach on the Patriots and we end up close to where the Colts did without Manning.

We have no idea how Brady would do without Belichick and it really doesn’t matter imo.

>>And the Browns didn’t fire him... the Ravens didn’t hire him. There’s a difference.

How is there a difference? The Browns became the Ravens... same franchise. They definitely fired him.

 

[Soliel]

>>And the Browns didn’t fire him... the Ravens didn’t hire him. There’s a difference.

How is there a difference? The Browns became the Ravens... same franchise. They definitely fired him.

This creates a horrible vision. A brown changing into a raven. Picture it.

 

[maineman209]

Actual running game should be added to the list. The team is currently sitting at #27 in terms of YPC.

Unless Gordon/Gronk/both just go OFF, the only real way that they’ll be able to make it back to another SB is to add an established running game to the list of weapons.

I'm not sure that there's necessarily a strong correlation between rushing YPA and the Pats making it to the SB.

YEAR . att . yds . TD . ypa (yds)
2018 . 10 .. 19 .. 6 .. 27 (3.9)
2017 . 11 .. 10 .. 6 .. 12 (4.2)
2016 .. 3 ... 7 .. 5 .. 25 (3.9)
2015 . 25 .. 30 .. 11 .. 29 (3.7)
2014 . 13 .. 18 .. 12 .. 22 (3.9)
2013 .. 9 ... 9 .. 2 ... 9 (4.4)
2012 .. 2 ... 7 .. 1 .. 17 (4.2)
2011 . 17 .. 20 .. 3 .. 24 (4.0)

Meanwhile, Brady's passing stats are roughly equal to, or slightly better than, his stats for 2014 ... aside from TDs.

 

[maineman209]

Yeah but it evolves. So Belichick has improved the structure. Basically all the supporting cast which Kraft has facilitated with actual structure..lol. Stadium, patriot place etc... The layers of winning culture go deep here. Brady is integral part and it was built around him. So.. 64k question is what's it gonna look like with next guy..? Hahaha. Gonna have to wait. We shall see.

The Erhardt-Perkins system has been re-tuned over the years to counter what defenses are doing as well as to optimize Brady's capabilities. It will be tweaked again for the "next guy". Or, perhaps, it will be more than just "tweaked", since I suspect that the "next guy" will be more like Mahomes, Watson, Wilson, Trubisky, etc. ... IOW, a "mobile" QB.

 

[Deus Irae]

Brady IS the Patriots System

Absolutely, which is why, after some failed attempts at other types of QBs (see Mallett, Ryan for a perfect example), BB eventually went after a Brady 'clone' in JAG.

 

[supafly]

I'm not sure that there's necessarily a strong correlation between rushing YPA and the Pats making it to the SB.

YEAR . att . yds . TD . ypa (yds)
2018 . 10 .. 19 .. 6 .. 27 (3.9)
2017 . 11 .. 10 .. 6 .. 12 (4.2)
2016 .. 3 ... 7 .. 5 .. 25 (3.9)
2015 . 25 .. 30 .. 11 .. 29 (3.7)
2014 . 13 .. 18 .. 12 .. 22 (3.9)
2013 .. 9 ... 9 .. 2 ... 9 (4.4)
2012 .. 2 ... 7 .. 1 .. 17 (4.2)
2011 . 17 .. 20 .. 3 .. 24 (4.0)

Meanwhile, Brady's passing stats are roughly equal to, or slightly better than, his stats for 2014 ... aside from TDs.

It just seems a bit different to me this year, that’s all. I’m not sure that the horses are there in the passing game to get us to the SB like in the other years.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Brady is the system? No.

Brady is an elite talent who happens to playing the E/P system.

Just like Phil Sims, Matt Cassell and Drew Bledsoe before him.

 

[maineman209]

It just seems a bit different to me this year, that’s all. I’m not sure that the horses are there in the passing game to get us to the SB like in the other years.

Well, tough start for the passing attack for the first four games - missing Edelman, Burkhead missing a lot, Gordon coming in late - then Gronk being dinged up and OUT for three games. Tough to get in sync. And it's not as if they've been playing all tomato cans in passing defense (top-10 rankings in bold; Pats losses in red):

TEAM . yds/gm . comp% ...... TDs .... INTs ...... SCK .... RTG ..... yds/att

BUF .. 202(1) . 64.4%(16) .. 14(3) .... 8(20) ... 25(19) . 86.7(5) .. 6.5(2)
JAX .. 210(3) . 61.2%(4) ... 14(3) .... 8(20) .... 21(27) . 86.4(4) .. 7.0(6)
GBY .. 223(5) . 62.5%(7) ... 16(10) ... 6(24) ... 34(3) .. 94.5(19) . 7.6(19)
HOU .. 235(8) . 62.8%(8) ... 17(15) ... 9(18) ... 28(14) . 88.2(9) .. 6.9(5)
TEN .. 235(8) . 65.3%(18) .. 14(3) .... 6(24) ... 23(24) . 93.8(17) . 7.4(13)
CHI .. 235(8) . 63.9%(14) .. 19(20) .. 20(1) .... 34(3) .. 78.3(1) .. 6.7(3)

Tomato cans, relatively speaking:
DET .. 238(13). 69.2%(29) .. 24(28) ... 4(29) ... 32(6) . 115.1(31) . 8.6(30)
MIA .. 250(19). 65.3%(18) .. 18(17) .. 15(2) .... 17(29) . 89.6(12) . 8.1(27)
IND .. 259(23). 72.0%(31) .. 16(10) .. 11(4) .... 26(16) . 96.4(21) . 7.7(22)
KCY .. 297(32). 63.2%(10) .. 20(22) .. 11(4) .... 36(2) .. 90.6(13) . 7.5(14)

Coming up (doesn't get easier):
NYJ .. 242(16). 62.3%(5) ... 17(15) .. 10(10) ... 22(26) . 88.0(7) .. 7.2(7)
MIN .. 226(6) . 64.2%(15) .. 13(1) ... 10(10) ... 32(2) .. 87.5(6) .. 7.5(14)
PIT ... 227(7) . 63.0%(9) ... 19(20) ... 6(24) ... 37(1) .. 93.6(16) . 6.9(5)

... Jete twice, plus BUF again, and MIA.