Brady IS the Patriots System

[MassPats38]

I can't believe what Patriots fans are saying here about Brady.

Like you've totally forgotten the previous 18 years, just because he's having a so-so year this year.

What I said had nothing to do with this year. I am not down on Brady at all. He is still the same Brady in my eyes. Statistics often reflect the supporting cast, and there has been a good deal of flux this year.

If you honestly believe Brady, a 199 draft pick, would have inevitably blossomed in the NFL regardless of the situation, then you have a right to that opinion. I would suggest there are far more stories of non-elite draft picks languishing on rosters behind high draft picks while career lights flickered out, or played for awful teams and were beaten out of the NFL by injury and inferior statistics, than there are stories like Kurt Warner (who was associated with Delhomme and Bulger in one system). Likely many players we never even heard of because they were never given the chance to showcase their skills.

Warner was cut outright by the Packers and sent to oblivion (3 arena league years). After a tortured path (one which necessitated NFL Europe, which no longer exists, as a resume builder), he got a chance to play when Trent Green went down and the Rams needed him. The Rams released him after a fumble issue, then the Giants dumped him for Eli, and then he went as a Cardinals backup. The fortuitous nature of his climb alone suggests luck plays a role in how careers unfold, and if any one of those tumblers fell out of place he is a career arena league player who never sniffs the NFL, let alone finds the Hall of Fame.

The Brady we know now is not the Brady of 2001 and 2002 (part of his greatness is he constantly works on mechanics and has willed himself to improve), and that is the version of Brady who set his career path. If you remember your history, then you remember his long throwing accuracy issues in 2002 and the "gloves on, gloves off" discussion that seemed to drag on throughout the year. Brady did not carry that offense to greatness, and the passing offense ranked 12th despite the need to throw with a running offense that ranked 28th. The Boston media and fans were chirping about the decision to trade Bledsoe, who actually had a better year with the Bills than Brady did in 2002. If you recall a general love of Brady in 2002 during that 9-7 season or a perception of "Tom Terrific" (i.e., just put the ball in his hands and things will turn out fine), then our respective memories differ. He was still developing his skill set, and needed time and opportunity to do so.

Outcomes of wars often turn on a single fortuitous event. If you actually believe Brady to the Hall of Fame was pre-ordained in 2000 with or without BB, then I would recommend another look at what had to happen to get Warner there. It is not sacrilege to suggest that events may have unfolded differently for Brady without the Pats. If you bristle at the suggestion BB had a hand in that outcome, then we can agree to disagree.

 

[upstater1]

What I said had nothing to do with this year. I am not down on Brady at all. He is still the same Brady in my eyes. Statistics often reflect the supporting cast, and there has been a good deal of flux this year.

If you honestly believe Brady, a 199 draft pick, would have inevitably blossomed in the NFL regardless of the situation, then you have a right to that opinion. I would suggest there are far more stories of non-elite draft picks languishing on rosters behind high draft picks while career lights flickered out, or played for awful teams and were beaten out of the NFL by injury and inferior statistics, than there are stories like Kurt Warner (who was associated with Delhomme and Bulger in one system). Likely many players we never even heard of because they were never given the chance to showcase their skills.

Warner was cut outright by the Packers and sent to oblivion (3 arena league years). After a tortured path (one which necessitated NFL Europe, which no longer exists, as a resume builder), he got a chance to play when Trent Green went down and the Rams needed him. The Rams released him after a fumble issue, then the Giants dumped him for Eli, and then he went as a Cardinals backup. The fortuitous nature of his climb alone suggests luck plays a role in how careers unfold, and if any one of those tumblers fell out of place he is a career arena league player who never sniffs the NFL, let alone finds the Hall of Fame.

The Brady we know now is not the Brady of 2001 and 2002 (part of his greatness is he constantly works on mechanics and has willed himself to improve), and that is the version of Brady who set his career path. If you remember your history, then you remember his long throwing accuracy issues in 2002 and the "gloves on, gloves off" discussion that seemed to drag on throughout the year. Brady did not carry that offense to greatness, and the passing offense ranked 12th despite the need to throw with a running offense that ranked 28th. The Boston media and fans were chirping about the decision to trade Bledsoe, who actually had a better year with the Bills than Brady did in 2002. If you recall a general love of Brady in 2002 during that 9-7 season or a perception of "Tom Terrific" (i.e., just put the ball in his hands and things will turn out fine), then our respective memories differ. He was still developing his skill set, and needed time and opportunity to do so.

Outcomes of wars often turn on a single fortuitous event. If you actually believe Brady to the Hall of Fame was pre-ordained in 2000 with or without BB, then I would recommend another look at what had to happen to get Warner there. It is not sacrilege to suggest that events may have unfolded differently for Brady without the Pats. If you bristle at the suggestion BB had a hand in that outcome, then we can agree to disagree.

My point is that every year we see mediocrities starting in the NFL. We also see mediocrities with long running NFL careers, like Derek Anderson, Fitzpatrick, McCown, and many many more.

Brady would have gotten his chance.

He was magical in 2001. He was a sea change from Drew Bledsoe. And as for 2002--I already wrote that Brady was Brady already in 2003. In fact, I'm hearing this week about how the defense and Belichick carried him through his early Super Bowls. True in 2001. But in 2003, that defense gave up a point a minute from the 29th minute of the first half until the end. Brady threw for 350+ yards that day, and he threw deep bombs too, and that was the 2nd or 3rd best all-time performance at the time. Also heard about how Vinatieri made the guy with clutch kicking. If it's clutch to miss two chip shot field goals, then I guess we can give Vinatieri the credit. Me? It's Brady. That performance in 2003 was not so easily reproducible, especially in an era prior to the rules changes.

 

[PatsDeb]

Thank you Colin Cowherd.

 

[Shockt327]

If you remember your history, then you remember his long throwing accuracy issues in 2002 and the "gloves on, gloves off" discussion that seemed to drag on throughout the year. Brady did not carry that offense to greatness, and the passing offense ranked 12th despite the need to throw with a running offense that ranked 28th.

...yes, I remember this. I also remember discussion over whether 2001 was a miracle (by far, the majority opinion), or if Brady really was on his way to being the next Joe Montana, and the Pats could possibly win another SB (minority opinion).

The Boston media and fans were chirping about the decision to trade Bledsoe

Uhh...What? No one wanted Bledsoe back, nor were they ever questioning the decision at all. This, flat-out, never happened.

(Bledsoe),who actually had a better year with the Bills than Brady did in 2002.

Ok, now it's you who cannot remember your history...

Bledsoe went 8-8, had 24 TDs, 15 INTs, 4359 yards, 85.0 rating
Brady went 9-7, had 28 TDs, 14 INTs, 3764 yards, 85.7 rating

Both went to the Pro Bowl & Brady's 28 TDs was most in the league.

If you recall a general love of Brady in 2002 during that 9-7 season or a perception of "Tom Terrific" (i.e., just put the ball in his hands and things will turn out fine), then our respective memories differ. He was still developing his skill set, and needed time and opportunity to do so.

Yes, but despite these flaws in 2002, it was still abundantly clear that Brady was clearly for real. No fluke. Not a miracle time/place in 01. In fact, in that following off-season, especially after the '03 draft and FA, the Patriots were AFC favorites to go back to the SB. That's how strongly people felt about Brady post-2002. It was no miracle, he was for real.

 

[PatsWSB47]

In 2001 Brady didn't know all the answers to the test yet, but he came through time after time in clutch situations. Even then his cool head under pressure was being compared to Montana's. Players felt reassured and confident in the huddle with him. You can argue all you want that the defense is what led to a Superbowl then but that wasn't happening with Bledsoe or Huard

 

[DaBronxPats14]

In 2001 Brady didn't know all the answers to the test yet, but he came through time after time in clutch situations. Even then his cool head under pressure was being compared to Montana's. Players felt reassured and confident in the huddle with him. You can argue all you want that the defense is what led to a Superbowl then but that wasn't happening with Bledsoe or Huard

It made John Madden eat his words in SB36.

 

[MassPats38]

Uhh...What? No one wanted Bledsoe back, nor were they ever questioning the decision at all. This, flat-out, never happened.

I am old enough to say I was there, but I'll humor your calling out the accuracy of my memory.

From Bill Simmons (Oct. 1, 2002): "People spent the entire offseason questioning Brady, wondering if he was a flash in the pan like David Caruso or Edie Brickell, wondering if the Pats made the right move in keeping him over Drew Bledsoe ... and it never made sense to me. "

Yes, it did happen. But I won't debate your memory as you didn't offer anything of substance to dispute in terms of an actual contemporaneous link to an article or video. I'm sure Bill Simmons just made that up during the 2002 season. Or you can read this Globe article that just happens to compare Brady and Bledsoe (with Brady failing against a weak defense and Bledsoe succeeding).

I checked the stats before I stated that, but thanks for posting the stats in questioning my recollection. Pro Football Reference has Bledsoe with a rating of 86 and Brady with 85.7. Nice tweak with the 85 rating for Bledsoe, though, placing him below Brady. You dropped a point somewhere. I checked my handy rating calculator, and Pro Football Reference is correct in that. You are not. I was comparing respective ratings, as that seems to be the neutral measure of performance for QBs. I wasn't looking for a metrics debate after that. The Bills and Patriots offenses were comparable to within 2 points (Pats 2 more points, Bills a few hundred more yards) and 1 win on the season, which doesn't exactly point to a clear winner in Brady as you suggest.

And one more factual correction. Brady was in the Pro Bowl for the 2001 season (he did not return until 2004). Bledsoe was in the Pro Bowl for the 2002 season (the season I was discussing). The asterisk next to the season in Pro Football Reference shows the Pro Bowl seasons. You can look that up for yourself.

 

[nabwong]

 

[DarrylS]

Brady is the GOAT, Rodgers could be, Manning could also etc.... but the difference is that BB creates an environment where #12 excels, there are other teams that might have him on their team but not know how to use him or know how to create a team around him.

This is an argument that can go around in circles, but as much as we are told different this is a team sport.. not denying that #12 is the Goat, but without a great team and great coaches he may have been a JAG... often not discussed is the consistent coaching, McDaniels for example after his hiatus in Denver he came back and never missed a beat. How many of the other QB's have had that consistency??

To say every coach has failed is somewhat erroneous, as the success rate for NFL Coaches is not all that great ( except for the acceptance of mediocrity in Cincinnati) .. Vrabel in Tenn seems to be doing ok, O'Brien in Houston seems to be doing alright.. then there are the front office folks like Dimitrof in Atl. Of course there are a lot of position coaches that come from this coaching tree as well...

 

[captain stone]

This thread was supposed to be around ripping Aaron "We beat ourselves" Rodgers a new one. Now it's turned into who needed the other more, Brady or BB. Come on guys!

Amen...


...besides, we already know the answer to that one...

 

[libra957]

Its one thing to do it 1 year and completely another to do it every single year even after team have you on tape...so yes he is.

 

[Seacoast Fan]

It made John Madden eat his words in SB36.

I know I am in a distinct minority on this, but I never really cared for John Madden as an announcer. And I distinctly remember him saying that the patriots had to take a knee and I was thinking, why would you possibly want to do that? So when the Pats went down the field like that, I was laughing at him.

 

[captain stone]

I know I am in a distinct minority on this, but I never really cared for John Madden as an announcer. And I distinctly remember him saying that the patriots had to take a knee and I was thinking, why would you possibly want to do that? So when the Pats went down the field like that, I was laughing at him.

Yeah, during his last few (or so?) years in the broadcast booth, Madden became almost a caricature of himself, as if he were imitating Frank Caliende imitating John Madden. His man-love for the over-rated Brett Favre was particularly embarrassing. He was better during his first few years in the booth.
Regarding ex-coaches moving to the anal-yst chair, the late great Frank Stram was much, much better.

 

[Coolade2]

Yeah the system is basically the coaching structure and strategy details of winning football games in all 3 complimentary phases over 60 minutes of playing time, 3 hours of actual time. ..

Cowherd kinda myopic on the QBs. The question is what would Patriots record be with Rodgers.? So the system and coaching does matter but this was just one game and it was in foxboro.

 

[Soliel]

The whole system quarterback thing is stupid. All teams have systems

Except like Ohio teams

 

[sean10mm]

It's of course not literally true that the Patriots don't have an offensive system.

What's true is that nobody gave a damn about it until Brady came along, even though the Patriots have been using the system since Patriots coaches devised it in the beepin' 1970s.

The mysterious "Patriots system" has been something that was around before most of the people talking about the system were even BORN.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It's of course not literally true that the Patriots don't have an offensive system.

What's true is that nobody gave a damn about it until Brady came along, even though the Patriots have been using the system since Patriots coaches devised it in the beepin' 1970s.

The mysterious "Patriots system" has been something that was around before most of the people talking about the system were even BORN.

The "Patriots system" you're talking about is the terminological system (i.e. how they name & call plays and concepts).
The actual offensive system itself (i.e. offensive philosophy and what the plays are) has nothing to do with that (other than using it for playcalls).

 

[zoostation]

If this was a system, you would think, like the West Coast offense and others over time, that some team, any team would have copied it by now

Your question is the core reason why players excel in New England. The answer is, other teams don't have Bill Belichick. And they can't copy something that constantly evolves. Teams can try and try to emulate what we have here but they are typically 3 steps behind (playing checkers while Pats dominating chess). The 'system' is not about an offensive style of play (west coast offense). Matter of fact X's and O's are only a small % of 'the system'. I expect a thousand and one 'disagrees' on this but it's all good. Folks get emotional about this subject. I always say 'what's wrong with having the GOAT QB -AND- the GOAT HC ?

 

[captain stone]

...Teams can try and try to emulate what we have here but they are typically 3 steps behind (playing checkers while Pats dominating chess)...

Mike Vrabel was playing chess while Little Billy was playing tiddly-winks.

 

[Mack Herron]