Brady IS the Patriots System

[sb1]

Not in the sense Brady is some fiction of a king-making system (he is not), but he is a product of a system that identifies and rewards excellence outside game day. He has benefited from that system in regard to some of the players around him who have played roles in its success. It is a team sport, an no player himself can win titles (if that were true, then Brady would have 18 rings, not 5).

The genius of BB was not drafting Brady (that was pure luck akin to spending $1 on a winning lottery ticket) but demonstrating a willingness to reward that player's practice play with a starting role and displace a high profile starter in Bledsoe. That is the type of risk that gets you fired if it fails, and few head coaches have the balls to do that. Without that leap of faith, we may have never known Brady.

I don't believe there would be a Brady without BB. I am not convinced there would be a BB without Brady (2001 likely would have gone much differently without Brady, as a lesser QB may have tanked the season leaving BB with two consecutive losing seasons).

It is true Brady is less physically gifted than QBs like Rodgers, Newton, Luck, etc., but they are midgets next to him in field IQ, work ethic, leadership, durability, and personal drive. The regular season is not the combine, which is why all of these immeasurable qualities create the success Brady has enjoyed, and why he is unquestionably the GOAT.

Yeah, if Belichick was a genius for drafting Brady, he would have been picked with their first selection and certainly not passed over 5 times. In a way it would have been fun to see Borges's reaction.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I don't believe there would be a Brady without BB. I am not convinced there would be a BB without Brady (2001 likely would have gone much differently without Brady, as a lesser QB may have tanked the season leaving BB with two consecutive losing seasons).

Exactly on both counts.

As for the Brady half, never underestimate the stupidity of NFL coaches and the way they favor draft status over effort. Many many other coaches would have just cut him, or put in Huard when Bledsoe went down, or gave the starter's job back to Bledsoe when he healed up.

Absent BB Brady would have had at best an average career because too many coaches are too dumb or insecure to have given him a proper chance, and even if they had, too many would try to make Brady fit their system rather than building the system around him.

Also, don't underestimate the immense benefit there has been to Brady of being in the same offensive system his entire career, with the same head coach, and big stability at OC as well. On most teams there would be churn, churn, churn and learning new systems every few years.

 

[upstater1]

The "system" is Belichick builds the offense every year around Brady's strengths - they've almost always had one (sometimes two) tight ends who can block AND positively affect the passing game - Fauria, Graham, Watson, Gronkowski, Hernandez, Bennett...they've always had a top 3 slot guy - Brown, Welker, Edelman...and they've always had backs who can catch the ball and make people miss - Faulk, Vereen, White, Woodhead. They've focused on these type of passing game weapons and not the "take the top off" guys with the exception of Moss. Brady is deadly accurate and incredible from the LOS to about 20 yards downfield between the #s. His accuracy wanes on other throws, so Belichick focuses on his strengths....

Stats totally undercut everything you said here. Look at them again. He is deadly accurate on longer throws.

 

[sb1]

Exactly on both counts.

As for the Brady half, never underestimate the stupidity of NFL coaches and the way they favor draft status over effort. Many many other coaches would have just cut him, or put in Huard when Bledsoe went down, or gave the starter's job back to Bledsoe when he healed up.

Absent BB Brady would have had at best an average career because too many coaches are too dumb or insecure to have given him a proper chance, and even if they had, too many would try to make Brady fit their system rather than building the system around him.

Also, don't underestimate the immense benefit there has been to Brady of being in the same offensive system his entire career, with the same head coach, and big stability at OC as well. On most teams there would be churn, churn, churn and learning new systems every few years.

It's very possible that Brady would have been out of the league quickly had he remained UDFA or another team picked him. Perhaps he would have decided to turn back to baseball where he was drafted by the Expos. History would have been very different for sure.

To be fair, Brady did play and excel in some very different offensive systems. The system Brady ran in 01-02 is very different than 07, which was also very different than 2014, and even this year the system has changed again, now focusing on White and Michel.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I hear too many ignorant analysts try to say Brady is great because of the Patriots system

Colin Cowherd debunks this myth totally in the best way I’ve heard.

I don’t watch sports talk shows, and I know a ton of people don’t like Cowherd (kind of goes with the territory), but I enjoy his YouTube clips. He is like the biggest Brady fan there is. Same with Skip Bayless.

 

[sb1]

Stats totally undercut everything you said here. Look at them again. He is deadly accurate on longer throws.

He wasn't always accurate on long throws. I think a lot of those issues early on actually came from his built in motion of a catcher (which Brady was and that's where he was drafted by the Expos) throwing a strike to 2nd base. That "rising" throw can nail a runner stealing but it's not what you want from your QB throwing a precise deep ball.

 

[Simpelton]

If this was a system, you would think, like the West Coast offense and others over time, that some team, any team would have copied it by now

Because it isn't a system. What it is, is a strategic genius teamed up with a quarterback and onfield tactician that's good enough to execute his strategies.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It's very possible that Brady would have been out of the league quickly had he remained UDFA or another team picked him. Perhaps he would have decided to turn back to baseball where he was drafted by the Expos. History would have been very different for sure.

Yup. I'm not saying that would have happened, or was even likely to happen, but a distinct possibility.

To be fair, Brady did play and excel in some very different offensive systems. The system Brady ran in 01-02 is very different than 07, which was also very different than 2014, and even this year the system has changed again, now focusing on White and Michel.

But those are systematic changes that happened in an orderly, evolutionarily way from within, not "owner fires everyone, time to start over from scratch again", and were done by people who know Brady very well. And even with those changes there are lots of things (such as playcalling concepts) that remained constant.

 

[upstater1]

I can't believe what Patriots fans are saying here about Brady.

Like you've totally forgotten the previous 18 years, just because he's having a so-so year this year.

Let's go backward in time on this.

1. The offensive system is one Erhardt/Perkins/Weis/McDaniels/O'Brien have overseen.

2. Belichick was a great defensive coach, and no one prepares better than him, but it is a system that long preceded him coming to the Patriots, a system installed by Weis initially.

3. All those coaches prior to Brady/Weis did not have anywhere near the success with this system that Brady has had, nor have McDaniels, Weis and O'Brien had the same success when they implemented the system elsewhere. The one intangible is Brady.

4. If the idea here is that Brady wouldn't have been given the chance because he was not highly sought when he came into the league, then you're going to have to explain to me Kurt Warner, Warren Moon, and many many others who were given a chance to succeed.

4a. The difference between Brady and Bledsoe in 2001 was night and day. We all saw it. It was not a mystery. When Drew came in against the Steelers in the AFCCG, he did what Drew does, slung the ball around without much caring if it was going to be intercepted.

4c. Post 2007, we have seen Brady play with a slate of defenses that frankly were not capable of shutting the opponents down. It's been all Brady since then.

5. QB'ing is much more than having a big arm (no one had a bigger arm than Jamarcus Russell), or an ability to run out of the pocket. It is as much about, a. Willingness to stand strong in the pocket and look downfield in the face of a rush, b. Quick release, c. Footwork in the pocket, sidestepping rushers, d. Helping your OL identify rushers and setting the scheme presnap, e. Accuracy, f. Smarts, intelligence, making the throw to the open man without getting too greedy, g. Throwing the ball away, stats be damned, h. Audibling to a run near the goalline, stats be damned, h. Leadership, i. Remaining calm even when behind, j. Being able to make any kind of throw (Elway, for instance, with his big arm, sucked at short throws), k. Reading the coverage, l. Moving the defense with your eyes and fooling them, m. running play action well, hiding the ball, n. Running the 2 minute offense well, o. Toughness, the ability to take big hits, p. Being coachable, making sacrifices for the team.

I'm sure there are many many other variables. Some of these are more important than others (reading Ds, quick release, accuracy, moving around the pocket, keeping eyes downfield) but at the end of the day, if you're dinging Brady because he can't run, I don't think you know much about the QB position. The best QB I ever saw before Brady was Marino, and the guy was even more immobile than Brady, but no one has ever moved better in the pocket than Dan Marino, not even Brady. Marino's incredible skill (moving around the pocket, avoiding the rush, incredible accuracy, strong arm) made him the most fearsome QB I've ever seen the Patriots go up against, and it had nothing to do with the other variables (guy couldn't run, he was a horrible leader, always screaming at teammates, etc.).

 

[upstater1]

He wasn't always accurate on long throws. I think a lot of those issues early on actually came from his built in motion of a catcher (which Brady was and that's where he was drafted by the Expos) throwing a strike to 2nd base. That "rising" throw can nail a runner stealing but it's not what you want from your QB throwing a precise deep ball.

By 2003, he was deadly accurate on long throws.

Think back to his bombs to Brown, Patten, Branch, etc.

 

[upstater1]

Yup. I'm not saying that would have happened, or was even likely to happen, but a distinct possibility.

I'm trying to figure out if you're even serious here.

I mean, this is a league with Nathan Peterman getting starts. Derek Anderson has started in this league for years. McCown.

There is not an alternate universe in which anything of the sort happens to Brady.

Distinct possibility? No freakin' way. Come on--can't even believe the crud I am reading from you. Ridiculous. Preposterous.

 

[sb1]

Yup. I'm not saying that would have happened, or was even likely to happen, but a distinct possibility.


But those are systematic changes that happened in an orderly, evolutionarily way from within, not "owner fires everyone, time to start over from scratch again", and were done by people who know Brady very well. And even with those changes there are lots of things (such as playcalling concepts) that remained constant.

That's very true, Brady never had to go through a real "reset" like many organizations do. Though not too many QBs jobs even survive such a reset either...

 

[sb1]

I'm trying to figure out if you're even serious here.

I mean, this is a league with Nathan Peterman getting starts. Derek Anderson has started in this league for years. McCown.

There is not an alternate universe in which anything of the sort happens to Brady.

Distinct possibility? No freakin' way. Come on--can't even believe the crud I am reading from you. Ridiculous. Preposterous.

Peterman wasn't in the NFL in 2000 and it's much easier in today's league with rules favoring passing for guys like that to start than it would have been in 2000. We're talking about what would have happened to Brady if he went UDFA or another team picked him up and he was never paired with Belichick. Highly unlikely he would have developed into anything resembling what he is today. His scouting report concluded he may be just a system QB. Very possible that another team picks him up as camp fodder and most of those QBs don't make the team.

He got picked by probably the only team and coach who would pay attention when he would tell the owner that he's the best decision they've ever made.

 

[upstater1]

Peterman wasn't in the NFL in 2000 and it's much easier in today's league with rules favoring passing for guys like that to start than it would have been in 2000. We're talking about what would have happened to Brady if he went UDFA or another team picked him up and he was never paired with Belichick. Highly unlikely he would have developed into anything resembling what he is today. His scouting report concluded he may be just a system QB. Very possible that another team picks him up as camp fodder and most of those QBs don't make the team.

He got picked by probably the only team to pay attention when he would tell the owner that he's the best decision they've ever made and the right coach to allow that to be proven correct.

Do I have to name the guys in 2000 and afterward who started despite not being heralded when they came into the league? There are so so so many of them. Lots of them. I named Anderson and McCown because they actually played in the 2000s. There are many many like them. Fitzpatrick. I mean, I could go on Brady would not have been cut, or simply considered camp fodder. There are a ton QBs that get a chance to play in this league. We see them all the time.

The idea that only the Patriots could have made use of his tools is just preposterous. Put Brady on the Ravens, and the Ravens win 3 more Super Bowls, and the Patriots win 2 less (with a good QB that is, they win ZILCH with Flacco).

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Ok, so what I'm getting here is that Any QB could do what Brady has accomplished throughout his career because of BB, Offensive Co - CW, B'O & Josh.
Any QB could have worked SB 36 GWFG in less than a min ( Starting First Year No Less)
Any QB could have pulled off another SB Win in 2006 with our receiving corp led by Reche (I thought I saw a Ghost) Caldwell and was leading that game at half time.
Any QB could throw multiple TDs in Wind & Snow Blizzards, System of course.
Any QB can comeback vs Legion Of Boom (see P.Manning SB50, Right!) largest deficit 10 pts.
Any QB can comeback in SB51 down 3-28 and WIN 34-28 throwing for like 466 yds SB Record, ****z & giggles, check out his stats in 4th Qtr & OT.
Any QB can throw over 500 yds in SB52 breaking his own record oh yeah and 40 years old against NO 1 Defense, System Right?
And now this year, ever changing revolving Offense of backs and receivers and injuries and now at 41, all TB does is just keep rollin and getting it done with what he has and beating Flavor of'da Month Mohomes Powered Chiefs and TB put up over 40 pts and won. Which leads us to Big Showdown with ARod. Now here is when this GOAT BS Stops! Rodgers is a phenomenal QB, magician like but has had better offensive weapons in his past with Defs but couldn't get it done. TB wins more with less and as we all know carried our Defenses in POs & SB Wins. Brady is not a system QB, System is him.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Ok, so what I'm getting here is that Any QB could do what Brady has accomplished...

Saying that "if Brady hadn't ended up with BB he would have had a much worse career and probably wouldn't have been anything special" is NOT equivalent to saying "any QB could have done the things Brady has done". If Brady hadn't ended up under BB I don't think any QB (or at most a couple of QBs) could have done what Brady has done here.

 

[DaBronxPats14]

Saying that "if Brady hadn't ended up with BB he would have had a much worse career and probably wouldn't have been anything special" is NOT equivalent to saying "any QB could have done the things Brady has done". If Brady hadn't ended up under BB I don't think any QB (or at most a couple of QBs) could have done what Brady has done here.

Yup and I'm addressing mediots*haters* that say BB can plug any QB in his system and they would have just as much success or even more than TB and that is Total BS! TB goes out and gets it done. PERIOD .

 

[Wheelman]

This thread was supposed to be around ripping Aaron "We beat ourselves" Rodgers a new one. Now it's turned into who needed the other more, Brady or BB. Come on guys!

 

[Palm Beach Pats Fan]

He seems to be talking about the offense. To say there is no system is silly and uninformed.

The Erhardt Perkins offense that the Patriots adopted under Belichick and Charlie Weiss has been molded and morphed over the years and is a fantastic system that adapts to personnel and adjusts seamlessly to attacking opponent's weaknesses. Brady runs the system and I can't imagine anyone doing it better. Josh has a deep understanding of how to fit the system to a game plan and to available personnel. 18 years of continuity through Belichick and Brady, and their skills, are aspects that can't be duplicated.

 

[Angelpats]

That's very true, Brady never had to go through a real "reset" like many organizations do. Though not too many QBs jobs even survive such a reset either...

There’s a very good reason why we never resetted. It’s because Brady keeps winning. He has earned the right to stay in this system. Don’t fault him when other teams have to reset offensively because they lose so much.