Bodden has season-ending back surgery

[Betterthanmost]

OK, I'm not a MD but missing this significant condition makes me wonder about the capability of the Pats medical staff. I hope that more capable analysis has been given to SeaBass' bad back issues.

Good point and I have the same concern too. I think when you complain about pain, they might address it based on who they think you are instead of what you are actually saying. I can bet if Vince said he had back pain, they will go from A to Z to find the solution.

 

[pdangle]

Chalk it up to the ol "90% of communication is non-verbal" human interaction study we see on PBS every month. What's that show called... <crickets>... PBS... anyone... <crickets> anyway...

It's frickin' weird. Try this. Re-read either of these initial posts with different assumptions of tone (innocent vs. angry+sarcastic) and you come out with totally different feel for each. Like REALLY different. Crazy. Maybe that's why this place turns into a pissing match half the time.

So I guess by cutting him this year, the Pats are only on the hook for this years money. And instead of IR'ing Bodden, the Pats basically ripped up his contract?
How is that legal?

Are you saying any player cut by any team before their contract is up should be paid the entire thing if another team doesn't pick them up? Man I'd love to sign a contract and get myself cut for being a ****bag. Probably be set for life.

Then...

WTF? Wow, calm down dude. I was only asking a question. Bodden cleared waivers so the Pats are on the hook for this years money, I believe? But Bodden's years remaining they are not, right? If the Pats new about Bodden's injury is that legal?

...what part of my post came off as me being angry and needing to calm down? I don't see it.

Anyway, time to end this dull Nova(ahah!)-esque post of my own... GO PATS! F*CK YEAH!!!!! KILL THE JETS!!!! WOoOOO HOoooo!

 

[Mike the Brit]

Well then I'll say it again. (1) Because we would be open to risk of paying him more ($4M in salary and workout money or even more in the form of an injury settlement in 2012 based on his remaining $8M in contractual salary) if he again cannot play and (2) because we would have to carry his full 2012 cap hit rather than cut it substantially in advance of what promises to be a fairly flat cap over the next 2 seasons...

I think Bill has finally come to grips with the fact that Bodden isn't a talent you can count on. That said, if he's healthy again in 2012 we could always sign him to a prove it deal again, the only kind he seems to play well during, for probably a lot less than $4M... Otherwise (not healthy or still eating up $5.5M in cap) you don't want him taking up valuable roster or cap space.

Well, I'm obviously slow about this, but, re (1), isn't that assuming that he's a veteran on the roster for the opening week. Surely they'll have had all of training camp to assess that risk.

As for (2), I'm assuming that we just talking about the cap hit from the signing bonus. The $1.5m pro-rated for this year has got to be paid one way or the other. As does the $3m next season (Bodden was signed till the end of 2013). How does the "cut it substantially in advance" work? Does the team take some of the 2012/2013 signing bonus as a hit this year? In that case, I can see that there'd be a cap benefit in freeing space for next season (750,000, if it's spread evenly). Otherwise, I'm still in the dark.

 

[ctpatsfan1]

God damn it BB. A little heads up would have been nice you know. How many DB's is that now that the Patriots have had on the books who have had season ending injuries?

Best of luck to Bodden in his recovery.

you do realize there are HIPPA laws and employers can not talk about employee or former employee health issues in public without permission and if they do they can be sued? Not only is BB one of the most secretice HC's in the league like the injury report he has consistently followed the health information rules to the letter of the law.

 

[Deus Irae]

OK, I'm not a MD but missing this significant condition makes me wonder about the capability of the Pats medical staff. I hope that more capable analysis has been given to SeaBass' bad back issues.

Yep.... You'd think the team doctors and team brass of the local pro teams would have learned their lessons by seeing the Ellsbury and Buckholtz situations unfold. Apparently not...

 

[Dutchmaster617]

No, but being a free-lancing, pathetic excuse for a Safety excuses releasing Meriweather.

Is Sergio Brown not pathetic? I highly disagree with you here.

 

[TruthSeeker]

Why should people stop complaining about his release? They signed him to a 4 year contract, not a "until you get a second injury" contract.

Actually, those are often the same thing in the NFL...

That being said, feel free to complain (not like you need more permission or anything )

 

[TruthSeeker]

This thread doesn't excuse releasing Sanders and Merriweather.

But then again, this thread isn't about Sanders or Meriweather.

 

[Deus Irae]

Actually, those are often the same thing in the NFL...

In your NFL, perhaps. In the one that plays on Sundays, not so much.

 

[Patjew]

At least he can still tweet.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Well, I'm obviously slow about this, but, re (1), isn't that assuming that he's a veteran on the roster for the opening week. Surely they'll have had all of training camp to assess that risk.

As for (2), I'm assuming that we just talking about the cap hit from the signing bonus. The $1.5m pro-rated for this year has got to be paid one way or the other. As does the $3m next season (Bodden was signed till the end of 2013). How does the "cut it substantially in advance" work? Does the team take some of the 2012/2013 signing bonus as a hit this year? In that case, I can see that there'd be a cap benefit in freeing space for next season (750,000, if it's spread evenly). Otherwise, I'm still in the dark.

If he is still here in March he is on the roster and eligible for his $100K workout bonus and he could be injured again at any point or come to the point where camp is opening and he's still not right and they cut him (as opposed to IRing him perhaps even after PUPing him through pre season) but then he applies for an injury settlement contending it's his health and not loss of skill that resulted in his being cut since it's not likely anyone else is going to take a flyer on him under the circumstances... Players can apply for an injury settlement under those circumstances and will if they fear they may not catch on for anything approaching what they were scheduled to make in salary or might have made in FA had they been healthy ever again. This way they are done with him, he got paid for the year and he's an UFA... And he only counts as $3M against the cap in 2012 rather than $5.5M throughout the off season whereas if he were released prior to the season he would count at $3M plus $100K plus whatever potential injury settlement he might receive.

I also think there is something just a little fishy about the entire situation that harkens back to the Duane Starks experiment. Many here thought his ineffectiveness was related to his being injured... And in fact he made a point of having surgery on his shoulder after he was released. Only that still didn't seem to fix what ailed him.

 

[RxJock1120]

Couldn't Bodden sue the Pats for cutting him with an injury?

I highly doubt it. As soon as Bodden was cut, his agent made a public comment about how Bodden is healthy and has no medical limitations.

It would be very hard for them to make a case that Bodden was injured, the Pats knew it, and that's why they cut him.

 

[Mike the Brit]

If he is still here in March he is on the roster and eligible for his $100K workout bonus and he could be injured again at any point or come to the point where camp is opening and he's still not right and they cut him (as opposed to IRing him perhaps even after PUPing him through pre season) but then he applies for an injury settlement contending it's his health and not loss of skill that resulted in his being cut since it's not likely anyone else is going to take a flyer on him under the circumstances... Players can apply for an injury settlement under those circumstances and will if they fear they may not catch on for anything approaching what they were scheduled to make in salary or might have made in FA had they been healthy ever again. This way they are done with him, he got paid for the year and he's an UFA... And he only counts as $3M against the cap in 2012 rather than $5.5M throughout the off season whereas if he were released prior to the season he would count at $3M plus $100K plus whatever potential injury settlement he might receive.

I also think there is something just a little fishy about the entire situation that harkens back to the Duane Starks experiment. Many here thought his ineffectiveness was related to his being injured... And in fact he made a point of having surgery on his shoulder after he was released. Only that still didn't seem to fix what ailed him.

I see. Still, it doesn't look like a huge downside risk, given that he has been a very good player at a position of need.

I can't take the Starks comparison. Starks looked like a guy who knows no Japanese trying to find the right platform in Tokyo Station -- he had no idea what was going on. When Brady says "Leigh is a friend of mine but it's not my business to make those decisions" he's more or less saying "WTF? Who knows what's going on round here?"

I think that Reiss may have his finger on things in this story:

Context on Leigh Bodden release - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

In other words, he says "I'm injured", they say "you're not giving it full effort". That sounds like the NFL to me.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I see. Still, it doesn't look like a huge downside risk, given that he has been a very good player at a position of need. I can't take theStarks comparison.Starks looked like a guy who knows no Japanese trying to find the right platform in Tokyo Station -- he had no idea what was going on. When Brady says "Leigh is a friend of mine but it's not my business to make those decisions" he's more or less saying "WTF? Who knows what's going on round here?" I think that Reiss may have his finger on things in this story: Context on Leigh Bodden release - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston In other words, he says "I'm injured", they say "you're not giving it full effort". That sounds like theNFL to me.

Young Chung spoke to the difference between injured and hurt or hurting with Rapsheet yesterday.

And Leigh wasn't a very good player at a position of need. He came with some red flags and had one good season as a RCB on a team that was struggling to develop some younger talent. He was at best a stop gap, and since they are still searching not a very good one. He was here for 3 seasons and unavailable or MIA in two of them. He didn't get a huge deal, but he likely got considerably more than he was worth. Belichick has a thing about guys who get paid and then coast. Probably dislikes them more than guys who simply never try...Perhaps he believed that Bodden had become one of those guys and perhaps he also felt that if he was hurting that was part of the reason he was... Kind of like Ty Warren...and Richard Seymour and Duane Starks, who actually did have some talent once upon a time but seemingly lost interest in maxing it out once he'd gotten paid.

Bodden seemed to become a mentor to Butler after his rookie season - at least according to twitter. Maybe what he really was was just a pal. They showed up every day for off season workouts. But just showing up isn't half the battle even if you are an elite talent, which neither of them were. Tom used to say that Randy was his good friend. Somehow I never assumed that meant he and Gisele had him over for dinner on Monday nights nor that it would save his ass here once he stopped being wildly productive and began becoming a headache...

 

[supafly]

No, but being a free-lancing, pathetic excuse for a Safety excuses releasing Meriweather.

Is Sergio Brown not pathetic? I highly disagree with you here.

It would seem from many yrs and patterns that Belichick does not equate the 2 things as being related, and that is certainly one of the knocks on him lately; cutting/failing to re-sign without adequate replacement.

That seems to be his way...he either wants you on the team, or he doesn't. Case closed.

He does not care at all about who is there to take the place, or maybe he just feels as though a lesser talent who gives 100% is always better than the more talented player who does not give his all and buy into the team.

Therefore, yes--it seems as though Brown pretty much sucks; but that does not excuse the poor play, freelancing, and other knocks on Meriweather either.

Ultimately, there should be some kind of better balance; but it appears as though that is Belichick's way.

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

It would seem from many yrs and patterns that Belichick does not equate the 2 things as being related, and that is certainly one of the knocks on him lately; cutting/failing to re-sign without adequate replacement.

That seems to be his way...he either wants you on the team, or he doesn't. Case closed.

He does not care at all about who is there to take the place, or maybe he just feels as though a lesser talent who gives 100% is always better than the more talented player who does not give his all and buy into the team.

Therefore, yes--it seems as though Brown pretty much sucks; but that does not excuse the poor play, freelancing, and other knocks on Meriweather either.

Ultimately, there should be some kind of better balance; but it appears as though that is Belichick's way.

Seems so to me too.
I wonder if this attitude is an extreme over reaction to the post Willie-Bruschi-Harrison era when guys like AD were supposed to be the new cornerstones of the D and BB to his surprise found a poisonous bad attitude that was anathema to the SB winning team culture? In reaction to this he seemingly has purged anyone who is not committed (but how does this coincide with signing AH?) regardless of whether he has an NFL capable backup. I'm grasping at straws because I cannot adequately come up with a conceptual model of what I think BB is thinking recently.

 

[ausbacker]

At least he can still tweet.

It's important to have one's priorities set straight in today's environment of instant gratification and social connectivity PJ. I don't know what I'd do without my daily Beiber fix.

 

[Zeus]

Yep.... You'd think the team doctors and team brass of the local pro teams would have learned their lessons by seeing the Ellsbury and Buckholtz situations unfold. Apparently not...

Fair point. The Red Sox situation is actually worse than you indicate here if you consider Pedroia's foot in 2010 and Lackey's recently diagnosed elbow. (Not to mention the fact that they tried to run Ellsbury out of town as a malingerer.)

I suppose part of the question is - are there other situations with Patriots players that give rise to further concerns about the medical staff?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

That was my initial thought too, but that's not the case; it works out the same. He gets the same amount of money this year whether he's on IR or on the 53-man roster. NFL contracts (i.e., annual salaries) are not guaranteed; the Pats did not pull a fast one by cutting him rather than IR'ing him. All 32 NFL teams 'rip up' a contract with dozens of players every year. If players are cut due to an injury there is an avenue for them to get an injury settlement.

More accurately:

(1) They are not routinely guaranteed as they are in, say, baseball. (The new CBA basically sets the contract values in stone; the main negotiating point is on how much gets guaranteed.)

(2) A veteran eligible for UFA who is on a team's Week 1 roster can, once in his career, claim the remainder of his salary for that season if cut (i.e., Bodden can get this year's salary, but then if he gets cut by someone next year, he can't).

 

[jmt57]

A short update from Bodden's agent, Alvin Keels:


Link: Leigh Bodden had successful surgery this morning to correct a herniated disk in his lower back that he injured week 1 against the Dolphins

Link: It was a routine operation and he is expected to make a full recovery. No time table has been set yet for his recovery

Link: The injury is not career threatening, however he could not play any longer this season with out getting the condition corrected by surgery

Remember that Keels had initially said “He’s enjoyed this time in New England, but after meeting with coach (Bill) Belichick this morning, both parties agreed it was time to move on. Leigh still has a strong desire to play football and welcomes his next opportunity to compete for a Super Bowl. Leigh is totally healthy and can contribute right away” when Bodden was released. He also had this to say in regards to that comment:

Link: We were told it was just back spasms. Sorry if I mislead the public