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Bob's big board and draft grades 2019

Discussion in 'Patriots Draft Talk' started by BobDigital, Mar 19, 2019.

  1. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    Julian Love – CB Notre Dame

    5'11 195lbs. Love had an okay combine but his 40 time of 4.54 could have been better. He did have an excellent 3CT and 20YS time. His BJ and VJ were good enough but not overly impressive. Judging from these numbers he may be better served as a slot CB due to his quickness over speed. Love has played heavily for Notre Dame the last 3 years but has really been a starter full time for the last 2 and posted good numbers.

    The good. Very good with the play in front of him. One of the best zone CBs in this draft. Good sideline to sideline ability. Good anticipation on short throws. Man skills are decent enough.

    The bad. Reads the QB too much at times. Will occasionally bite on a double move and let the WR get behind him. May have issues with bigger physical WRs. Sometimes is too flat footed when he expects a certain kind of pass at the down marker. When the play gets behind him he can panic.

    Overall. One of the more balanced CB prospects. Well suited to play both inside and outside in many situations. Doesn't have long speed and can sometimes let the play get behind him. He becomes a much worse CB when his back is to the QB. He didn't play much press but his man skills were okay. To me his strength is in the short area of the zone and sideline to sideline. I want him within 15 yard of the LOS and trying reacting to the plays in front of him. If asked to take a guy on the outside he can do it a little (depending on the guy) but it isn't ideal for him. I see a few parts of his game that should instantly translate and other things he can work on so I think he's a safe pick as a CB who can either fill your nickle or the #2 outside spot if you need him to. I would feel more comfortable with him as your #2 if your team ran a lot of zone as opposed to man, not that he's absolute trash a it. Grade 5.8
     
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  2. SirApropos

    SirApropos On the Game Day Roster

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    Other players I'd be interested in your take on are Riley Ridley, Isaiah Johnson and Lonnie Johnson Jr..
     
  3. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    He reminds me a bit of Logan Ryan. Similar size and testing. Good production. Will tackle. Could do a lot worse as a #2 or slot guy. Plus I like his name. :cool:
     
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  4. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    Miles Boykin – WR Notre Dame

    6'4 220lbs. Boykin had a very good combine to say the least. He placed near the top in pretty much everything besides bench. Long speed, explosion and quickness. He projects to have them all in spades going by the combine. Add that to his height and size and he should be everything you'd look for in a WR. Given all those great test numbers it's a bit surprising he didn't do much before this year that he didn't manage more than 872 yards in 13 games with his QBs being fairly generous with chances. He faced a pretty good schedule this year so we have good data to judge him against.

    The Good. Can hang on well through contact. Overall seems to be a smart player. At times you see his talent fully transfer onto the field and it looks really good. Is an okay run blocker. Able to utilize his big catch radius most of the time.

    The Bad. Not the run blocker he should be when you consider his size. Loses track of the boundaries too often. On film he often plays slower than his tested times. Lacks physicality in his game. Rarely pushes off or uses his body to bully CBs. When contacted a bit he doesn't power through and come down with the catch often.

    Overall. Boykin is an example of a super talented player that doesn't understand how to fully play his position yet. The good news is I think he showed a fair amount of improvement over the course of the year and became more consistent. That stats reflect that too. He's shown the ability to be coached up and improve. Has a lot of areas to improve on and I expect a rocky year 1. He just doesn't seem to understand the position well enough and I think the college game proved a little too fast for him at times. He has the talent to the a #1 WR but I don't see him every being that, and I honestly can't tell you the exact reason why. I think part of it comes from the lack of 'dog' in his game. He doesn't fight for the ball or gets in the other player's face. That isn't the only reason but just one of the little things I'm not seeing. I think he can be a talented #2 but I also see bust potential. Grade 5.1
     
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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019
  5. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    I already did Riley Ridley :)

    I'll get done what I can but I want to get other players done first. I think I can get to Isaiah and Lonnie though.
     
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  6. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    Ben Banogu – OLB/Edge Texas Christian

    6'3 250lbs, He had one of the best combines among all edge players. Arguably the best one. His worst event was probably the bench but he was still top 10 in it. The thing which stuck out the most were the BJ and VJ. He was the best in both and so arguably has the best burst of the edge players. At 250lbs the question does he fit better at DE or an OLB? Statistically he had pretty consistent back to back junior and senior years. That is both good and bad depending on what you're looking for. Over the last 2 years he's faced solid competition. While he didn't have this issue last year it is worth pointing out this year he ran a little hot and cold.

    The Good. The test results show up at times. Can play all over the line depending on the down and distance. When he gets his very quick first step into a gap he's hard to stop. Has the ability to beat a tackle both inside and outside.

    The bad. Either to small or too weak to hold up in run defense. Lacks pass rush moves. His trademarks are lining up deep and using his speed to set guys up or getting free on stunts. It is rather inconsistent and he has little left if it doesn't work. The athleticism doesn't show up on the field as much as you'd like. Not a great tackler or finisher. If he converts to OLB I worry about his coverage as I didn't see much of it on tape.

    Overall. A talented guy but not a great or even particularly good football player at this point. On average I’ll say he makes 1-2 plays a game where he shows first round level talent and he simply can't seem to put it together for the other snaps. There's certainly something to coach here but I wouldn't be excited to try. The fact he kind of stagnated this year is a very big deal to me in this case. A guy with his potential should have taken at least a half step forward, but he didn't. That is highly concerning. As is his size. I don't think he can play DE and I don't know about his ability to cover. He'd have to learn that. Right now he projects only as a pass rushing specialist OLB, and not even that good. He has too much talent to just be that forever I would think but after last year it is reasonable to question how much he can improve and how long It will take. I see bust potential with upside that isn't that tempting. Grade 4.5
     
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  7. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    Juan Thornhill – FS Virginia

    6'0 205lbs. He had a very good combine in the 4 events he competed in. A 4.42 40, the 2nd best bench, the best VJ and BJ. He apparently did the agility drills at his pro day but I'm having trouble finding the results. To the tape. In this case I wanna link a game.



    1:19 – Just a fun play to watch. The thing about this play which is important is it demonstrates his ability to read multiple objects in motion at the same time. He seems to be able to navigate it like a returner.

    3:55 – I've talked time and again about those little tricks DBs and WRs need to do to succeed at the next level. This little pull is a perfect example. Yes it might get called sometimes but it's the kind of tiny pull you dare them to call. I loved this play. A combo of athleticism, technique and savvy.

    The Good. The fact he's a former CB really shows in his game. Very good at staying clear of the trash when in the box and getting to an open lane to pursue. Both quickness and speed show up on film. Tackling is usually pretty good. Plays all over the defense. Man, single high, in the box as an SS. Consistently shows big play ability.

    The Bad. Lack of focus in any one area does at times show up with simple mistakes. Takes some questionable angles at times. Needs to react a little faster when playing single deep still.

    Overall. A very talented player. He's improved every year which you like to see and he still has room to grow. While he played in the box a fair amount he transitions better as a FS who plays the intermediate/short and coverage IMO. There's very little reason not to draft him as he can work in pretty much any kind of system and looks ready to play in at least a limited role on day one. His game tape included splash plays as well as consistently good play, which is perhaps more important. Probably the best safety in this class. 6.6
     
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    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  8. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    Anthony Nelson – DE Iowa

    6'7 271 lbs. A good combine. The only thing Nelson did badly on was the bench press. In everything else he was at or near the top. Statistically he's started for about 3 years and has shown slight improvement each year. The only issue statically is he has multiple games without any splash plays. Not unusual but not ideal either. On to the tape.

    It was surprising to watch. He looks closer to 290 than 270 on the field. The exact opposite of his test scores, his style looks more power based than speed based. His quickness and speed shows through, but not usually as fast. The first step burst shows up at times. His length and arms usually makeup for a lack of fluidity. I'm curious how those traits will translate to in the NFL when he faces tackles who are his own size consistently.

    After his initial burst is spent he has a hard time getting off his block On the plus side he's naturally a good run defender. I don't find his technique or strength or lateral quickness to be anything special, he's just hard to get around and push back. At least most of the time. His height probably works against him sometimes. He has a few ways to pass rush but none of them are truly impressive alone. His bull rush, edge rush and inside rush are all decent as are a few pass rush moves.

    On the whole there are some issues that will probably not be fixable and some give and take you'll have to accept with his strengths and weaknesses. However there's a fair amount of untapped upside and you see it flash enough that it gives you hope of it developing further. I wouldn't doubt he's still growing into his body. Year 1 may be a challenge but he has a good chance to develop into an every down player. I see a bit of bust potential, but no bright red flags. Grade 5.3
     
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  9. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    4.20 shuttle, 6.86 cone (per the very handy new DraftScout spreadsheet, which I shelled out 10 bucks for to support them)
     
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  10. manxman2601

    manxman2601 Hall of Fame Poster

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    He’s been climbing my personal rankings for a while now. Seems like an ideal Devin McCourty replacement. He compares very favourably to Byron Jones athletically and I loved Jones. However, I always thought Jones was better as an outside corner whereas Thornhill fits better as a safety that could play corner if needed.
     
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  11. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    Kaden Smith – TE Stanford

    6'5 255lbs. Smith had a bad combine besides the 3CT. Going by the combine he is one of the worst athletes at the TE position this year. His production took a nice jump up his junior year going from 414 yards to 635 yards. He was a bit inconsistent and also has health issues potentially. However overall given the small sample size of games he put up impressive numbers. Some of his best games were against some of the best defenses in college. He basically tied for the #2 option on his team.

    The Good. A bit faster than his tested 40 speed on tape. He's a good run blocker. Has very good body control and looks fluid considering his size. Usually has solid hands. His catch radius is pretty big and looks natural catching high point balls, balls behind him and at his knees. When he gets a free release he is very good at setting up his man and using body position to give his QB a window. Often falls forward to gain a few more yards after contact.

    The Bad. Clearly has limited upside. When he is pressed he has a hard time dealing with it. Will never big a big YAC player. Goes down easier than you would hope for a man his size. When the defense is allowed to play a bit more physical down field he has no chance of ever getting open in man. Pushes and holds off the line and in coverage slow him down more than you'd like, even when it is much smaller DBs doing it.

    I understand the knock on Smith. In a league obsessed about the upside of prospects Smith offers little. He has a few areas he can improve on as a run blocker and more tricks he can learn as a pass catcher but there is a clear bottleneck. So what? Upside in many cases is overrated. We often see teams draft players looking for stars; cause you need stars to win. But most players after the first 10-15 picks in the draft never reach that status anyway. Smith can be a solid TE in this league. He should translate quickly and be dependable. In a league where everyone is hoping to snag the next 1,000 yard TE we forget the 32nd best pass catching TE last year only got 281 yards. You don't need to have truly great upside to help out a team in the NFL. You just need to be dependable and block well. Smith can do those things. When looking back on this draft the team who takes him will be glad they did I believe. Grade 4.7
     
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  12. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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    Sounds like the perfect candidate for the back side of a TE double-dip, because I wouldn't touch him within the top 100 nor have him be the first TE I select, but he would complement somebody like Fant, Sternberger, Warring, Oliver etc very nicely.
     
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  13. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    Jaylon Ferguson – DE Louisiana Tech

    6'5 271lbs. He didn't compete at the combine. He did test at his pro day. His 40 time, BJ and VJ were good. His Bench was okay. His 20YS and 3CT were really bad. His stats over the last 4 years have been good but had wide swings. For instance his sack total went from 6 to 14.5 to 7 to 17.5. That is inconsistency you don't like like to see, particularly in his junior year. But maybe he was playing injured for part of it? Overall you have to like the experience. He rarely played against higher competition, but when he did he did okay. A fair amount of inconsistency though. 7.5 of his sacks came in 2 games. Not ideal but there is always some level padding your stats on weaker teams in college. At least he had decent showings vs the highest ranked teams he played. Also it's worth noting apparently he played between about 255-260lbs last year.

    The Good. Has a variety of ways to get to the QB. Shows good bend around the corner. Is an excellent hand fighter. Can bull rush effectively at times. Has played in different spots on the line. Has a lot of untapped upside. Long arms can abuse short armed OTs. First round level talent.

    The bad. The reason he has a lot of untapped upside is cause he was wildly inconsistent. Lacks effort on many plays. Gets lazy with his hand fighting at times. If the play is away from him he's quick to lose interest. Very inconsistent run defender.

    Overall. He has the chance to be a great NFL player but the one thing I hate to see at the college level is laziness. People don't often suddenly stop taking plays off. He did well against LSU which proves he could have had similar output against elite competition but he seems to be like a player who is really only interested when called upon to get to the QB. Jaylon 'sack daddy' Ferguson seems to think plays where he needs to pursue are not worthy of his effort and I think that will turn a lot of coaches off as will his snap to snap effort. I don't see him being an every down player. More of a pass rushing specialist and rotational guy. But he will be great in that role. Grade 5.8
     
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  14. TommyBrady12

    TommyBrady12 Pro Bowl Player

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  15. captain stone

    captain stone Pro Bowl Player

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  16. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Agreed--I'm actually a little more concerned at OT than DE, but I don't see any OT likely to be worth the pick at 32.
     
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  17. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    I never hold my nose up at taking an OT. It is such an important position and if you believe you're getting value you have to do it.

    If they believe in Greg Little that's fine by me. All I'll say is if they leave this draft without 2 play makers in the first 3 rounds I'll be very disappointed.
     
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  18. kennyb

    kennyb In the Starting Line-Up

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    I believe Max Scharping of northern illinois is the OT for the pats. Smart, strong durable. But maybe not the best athlete?
     
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  19. reamer

    reamer Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I like Scharping. He actually tested above average in agility drills and jumps, and all that at nearly 330, so I think he's a better athlete than credited. One of my favorite mid round guys that just screams Patriots OL.
     
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  20. BobDigital

    BobDigital Pro Bowl Player

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    Rock Ya-sin – CB Temple

    6'0 192lbs. His combine was a mixed bag. A bad 3CT, BJ and 20YS. A good VJ and Bench and an okay 40 time. It seems quickness is his weakness, which is fine for an outside CB. Explosion is inconclusive and his long speed is serviceable. A late transfer to temple after his old school stepped down from Division 1. Didn't have to face any top draft prospects at WR or QB this year. I was so conflicted with this prospect. When you put on his game against Buffalo you see the reason why. We get to see the best and worst parts of this player. It is also the best competition he faced all year.



    0:14 – One of two times I saw a play like this. Once his back is turned to the QB he seems a little lost. Not uncommon but not ideal.

    0:40 – The lack of quickness shows up here. Once he commits to one direction a hard stop or turn by the WR gives him tons of space.

    3:03 – He is made to look absolutely silly in open space. We saw him stumble a bit at 0:14 too. This is an issue with him. Is really is that bad in trying to do anything in the open field.

    3:18 – For a guy named Rock he is incredibly soft in run defense. Maybe he couldn't have done anything about this play but the horrible angle and lack of effort and interest in getting involved in this play was the single rep I hated the most.

    3:30 – IDK what you can take from this but it is fun to watch.

    7:38 – One of a number of very good man to man plays he made on this tape. He can very easily stay vertically on a guys hip. When he gets his eyes back to the QB he makes a nice straight line sharp break and the pass has no chance.

    8:34 – Absolutely filthy. It shows how dangerous Rock can be when he gets to eye the QB the whole way and break on the ball. He can eat these vertical routes for breakfast all day.

    9:46 – The one time he was beat with his back turned. While you hate to give up a TD I want you to look at what it took to beat him on this play. That ball was thrown in nearly the perfect spot and the WR made a diving catch on it. Rock still almost defended it.

    Some good and bad. His run blocking is suspect. Needs to get his head around more. Against quicker WRs in the open field he looks like hes on a slip and slide. Put him on the outside against WRs who want to get up the field and he will stay on their hip and dare the QB to fit it in. Needs to be coached up better so he doesn't give up easy underneath stuff, but I think that's fixable as are his ball tracking skills and getting his head around more. Right now I see him as a match up based #2 CB will room to grow into a full time #2 CB. Even if that is true he will always be a playing who has certain strengths and holes in his game which can't be fixed. It makes me hesitant to call him a future every down player. The holes in his game may also just be too big period. I like the upside but see some minor red flags here. Grade 5.2
     
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    Last edited: Apr 17, 2019

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