Belichick's record without Brady since the Brady era began

[Rob0729]

So much of the discussion during the offseason and early this season was that Belichick has a losing record without Brady. But I just heard on Felger and Mazz (yeah, I know. I know. Why am I listening to them?), a emailer pointed out that Belichick has a winning record in games without Brady since Mo Lewis took out Bledsoe. I think that is a fair way of judging Belichick as a stand alone coach without Brady and not what he did 25 years ago.

So here we go:

2008 - 11-5 (I am counting the game Brady went down since he only played a series)
2018 - 3-1 (two games starting their third string QB)
2020 - 7-9
2021 - 7-4

Total: 28-19 or 59.6% winning percentage.

It isn't as good with Brady obviously, but it isn't all that bad. Odds are decent that that winning percentage will go up by the end of this year the way they are playing. And the only time he didn't win more games than he lost was last year with a mediocre QB and them rebuilding after the Brady era. And even then, they were only one game away from going .500.

Also, note all the seasons he played QBs he drafted, he has winning records.

 

[Pats1971]

So much of the discussion during the offseason and early this season was that Belichick has a losing record without Brady. But I just heard on Felger and Mazz (yeah, I know. I know. Why am I listening to them?), a emailer pointed out that Belichick has a winning record in games without Brady since Mo Lewis took out Bledsoe. I think that is a fair way of judging Belichick as a stand alone coach without Brady and not what he did 25 years ago.

So here we go:

2008 - 11-5 (I am counting the game Brady went down since he only played a series)
2018 - 3-1 (two games starting their third string QB)
2020 - 7-9
2021 - 7-4

Total: 28-19 or 59.6% winning percentage.

It isn't as good with Brady obviously, but it isn't all that bad. Odds are decent that that winning percentage will go up by the end of this year the way they are playing. And the only time he didn't win more games than he lost was last year with a mediocre QB and them rebuilding after the Brady era.

Why dont they count 2000? Brady was on the team. Bill was the coach and brady was on the team, seems like that should count. I guess if people want to ignore 18 games Bill was coach and Brady was not starting and not count that, then we can just change anything we want. Bill as the head coach of the patriots without Brady starting at QB is 33-32....thats his record on the patritos as the head coach when someone besides Brady is starting.

 

[Ivan]

All that really matters is Belichick’s record without Brady and Jones, and without the 11-5 season in Cleveland. Just stating the facts.

 

[Pats1971]

All that really matters is Belichick’s record without Brady and Jones, and without the 11-5 season in Cleveland. Just stating the facts.

No, count it all. Yeah he had a 11-5 season in cloe, he also had 3 losing seasons in Cle. Count it all. Fact is with Brady his winning pct is up around .730 without Brady its below .500. No cherry picking, no, well lets not count this. with and without. I know its shocking and might upset people,. but coaches tend to have better records with hall of fame QB'.......shhhh dont let this secret get out.

 

[Rob0729]

Why dont they count 2000? Brady was on the team. Bill was the coach and brady was on the team, seems like that should count. I mean you gave Bill a win that Brady started the game in 2008, but not the 2 games in 01 they lost when Brady started on the same team. I guess if we push the numbers around enough we can make it so Bill never lost a game ever. Bills record is what it is with and without Brady. With Brady is miles better, thats it, end of discussion. I mean why you just not count games that Bill lost. on the patriots without Brady? Explain why those dont count?

I'll give you the 2008 argument. Let's take that one away. Belichick was 10-5 in 2008. Brady played like 3 plays that game. But I will give it to you. Doesn't change anything.

And in 2000 Belichick didn't have system in place and didn't have many of his type of players. There were some hold overs from the Parcells era, but whole lot. We should look at the Patriots after he installed his system completely and got players to buy into the Patriot way.

 

[Rob0729]

No, count it all. Yeah he had a 11-5 season in cloe, he also had 3 losing seasons in Cle. Count it all. Fact is with Brady his winning pct is up around .730 without Brady its below .500. No cherry picking, no, well lets not count this. with and without. I know its shocking and might upset people,. but coaches tend to have better records with hall of fame QB'.......shhhh dont let this secret get out.

Why? Other than to push the agenda of Belichick is a mediocre head coach and was just a product of Brady.

Seriously, the Cleveland years was a totally different era and Belichick has admitted that he learned from his mistakes of that era. He is clearly not the same coach he was back in Cleveland in the mid 1990s.

 

[Pats1971]

I'll give you the 2008 argument. Let's take that one away. Belichick was 10-5 in 2008. Brady played like 3 plays that game. But I will give it to you. Doesn't change anything.

And in 2000 Belichick didn't have system in place and didn't have many of his type of players. We should look at the Patriots after he installed his system completely and got players to buy into the Patriot way.

Belichick didnt have what system in place? Of his players? Most of the star players on the 2001 team were there before Bill go here. Bruschi Law Milloy, etc. Sorry but he has a record with brady and without him. He installed his "system" when he got to NE, it just didnt work until he got a QB that could run it.

 

[Pats1971]

Why? Other than to push the agenda of Belichick is a mediocre head coach and was just a product of Brady.

Seriously, the Cleveland years was a totally different era and Belichick has admitted that he learned from his mistakes of that era. He is clearly not the same coach he was back in Cleveland in the mid 1990s.

I didnt say anything about mediocre coach, but why do you have to ignore actual games that he was head coach in to make him look better without Brady? As I said, he has a record with and without Brady. Its really that simple.

 

[Rob0729]

Belichick didnt have what system in place? Of his players? Most of the star players on the 2001 team were there before Bill go here. Bruschi Law Milloy, etc. Sorry but he has a record with brady and without him. He installed his "system" when he got to NE, it just didnt work until he got a QB that could run it.

That isn't true. It was four years in between the Parcells era and 2000. There were some players left, but it wasn't nearly as many you are make it.

I know you think Belichick is a mediocre head coach and a product of Brady. But are you going to argue Belichick can't win without HOFers like Matt Cassel and Jacoby Brissett?

 

[amfootball]

So much of the discussion during the offseason and early this season was that Belichick has a losing record without Brady.

He still does.

 

[Rob0729]

I didnt say anything about mediocre coach, but why do you have to ignore actual games that he was head coach in to make him look better without Brady? As I said, he has a record with and without Brady. Its really that simple.

No I am looking at Belichick in modern times and ancient history. And when he got his system in place.

And whether you think Belichick is a mediocre head coach or just another good head coach who probably wouldn't have a championship or no more than one or so without Brady, the agenda is clear.

 

[amfootball]

No I am looking at Belichick in modern times and ancient history. And when he got his system in place.

And whether you think Belichick is a mediocre head coach or just another good head coach who probably wouldn't have a championship or no more than one or so without Brady, the agenda is clear.

I think what is clear with Bill is he is a defensive genius. I agree that it took time for him to figure things out as a HC but that was because he never had a QB like Brady who made everything simple and clear. It is no accident that he picked Jones who is a replica of Brady's game and mental make up.

 

[Pats1971]

That isn't true. It was four years in between the Parcells era and 2000. There were some players left, but it wasn't nearly as many you are make it.

I know you think Belichick is a mediocre head coach and a product of Brady. But are you going to argue Belichick can't win without HOFers like Matt Cassel and Jacoby Brissett?

I didnt make it out to be any number. I said a lot of the stars that were on the team in the early superbowls were already here. I never said a word about Bill being anything, you said that, I am just giving facts. If you have to throw out full seasons to make him look better go ahead, I do not really care about the stupid Bill vs Brady argument. No I will say Bill cannot win any superbowls without Cassel. I will say this, whoever the coach was for KC when cassel went there must be pretty good because Cassel took them to the playoffs and couldnt take a 16-0 super team.

But no, I didnt say what Bill would have or what he is or anything like that, you did. I am giving actual reality things. You are the one that is tossing out entire seasons that Bill was head coach of the pats. lol. I am for counting everything, you are not. You seem to be the one with the agenda. I am not the one throwing out seasons.

By the way, players that were on the 2000 pats when Brady didnt play and were also on the superbowl 2001 pats when he did...

Kevin Faulk
Troy Brown
Patrick Pass
Wiggins
Milloy
Bruschi
Law
McGinnist
Adam V

I would say yeah those players were pretty important to the 2001 patriots that were on the team before Bill.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

All Bill needs is a steady QB and he'll win games. He has proven that over and over again. Even if you count 2000, Bill is 33-30 without Brady as HC of the Patriots. It should be noted that a lot of the losses in 2000 were by one score or less and he inherited a bad team from Carroll/Grier.

 

[Ivan]

No, count it all. Yeah he had a 11-5 season in cloe, he also had 3 losing seasons in Cle. Count it all. Fact is with Brady his winning pct is up around .730 without Brady its below .500. No cherry picking, no, well lets not count this. with and without. I know its shocking and might upset people,. but coaches tend to have better records with hall of fame QB'.......shhhh dont let this secret get out.

No, count only the losses, that’s the right way to do it. The Brady and Jones wins don’t count, only the losing counts. You know, you do it all the time.

 

[Rob0729]

I think what is clear with Bill is he is a defensive genius. I agree that it took time for him to figure things out as a HC but that was because he never had a QB like Brady who made everything simple and clear. It is no accident that he picked Jones who is a replica of Brady's game and mental make up.

And he won the Super Bowl in 2001 and Brady was a game manager then and clearly not remotely close to the elite QB he is.

And Jones has the skill set that fits the Patriots system. Although Belichick would love Jones to be a Brady clone and be just as good, he didn't draft him because he thinks he cannot win without a HOF/ Top QB of all time. Any GM with brain knows you draft players who fit your system unless you want to revamp your entire system to fit that player. Belichick was never going to revamp his offense around his QB like Fields unless he was sure that he was going to be a HOF QB.

 

[Pats1971]

All Bill needs is a steady QB and he'll win games. He has proven that over and over again.

he has? A steady QB? lol. You can win games with a "steady" QB, you have to have a special Qb to win for two decades and 6 titles. If the pats make the playoffs this year it will be the first year he has without Brady. So saying all he needs is that to win, well thats false based on actual facts.

 

[tasmlab]

The problem with this "comparing W/L records analysis" pretends like the only data we have is the W/L record.

I, for example, like everyone else here, watched the 350 or so games Belichick coached since 2001. Like really watched them: like every minute of every game, intently, sometimes more than once.

Bill is a really good coach.

 

[Pats1971]

No, count only the losses, that’s the right way to do it. The Brady and Jones wins don’t count, only the losing counts. You know, you do it all the time.

I counted all of them, for some reason you folks wont. Count them all and let me know how it turns out.

 

[lancerman]

These comparisons don’t mean anything when you cherry pick out things you don’t like. We are doing well now, let’s just be happy for that without picking and choosing what we want to count in our analysis.