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Belichick's record without Brady since the Brady era began

2021 Patriots Season:
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Next Up: at Bills
Pick Results: NE: 83.1% at BUF: 16.9%

Mon
Dec 6th

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ashley1992

Moderator
Staff member
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It really does not matter who said it. Bill has lost to Tua twice too. See how ridiculous that is?
Yeah, the last time was because our rb fumbled heading into the end zone......let's knock it off..you don't have to get on our train, it's been rolling for a few weeks now.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
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Believe me, I am on the train. :)
I wouldn't take Lazar too seriously with these takes. He does good research and analysis but also has takes that are a bit off.

Historically Bill does a good job on rookie/young QBs. It's the disciplined, patient vets that present problems.

Hebert has had his problems with BB and Tua has a 76.5 Qb rating throwing for 177ypg. Not exactly lighting it up.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I wouldn't take Lazar too seriously with these takes. He does good research and analysis but also has takes that are a bit off.

Historically Bill does a good job on rookie/young QBs. It's the disciplined, patient vets that present problems.

Hebert has had his problems with BB and Tua has a 76.5 Qb rating throwing for 177ypg. Not exactly lighting it up.
Lazar is a bit of a tool but overall provides some good insights. Like I said, I thought the take was dumb. Bill does not need anyone pumping his tires with silly statements like that. Herbert was a rookie last year with a clown show for a coaching staff. I mean there is reason we blew their doors off with Cam throwing for less 100 yards. lol
 

PatsDeb

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Let's just enjoy what's happening now. I am on record in many threads prior to this one as being mad at BB for letting Brady go. As some radio talking head said the other day, "We are not even thinking about Brady now." and I thought, "Wow. That's true. Even for diehard Brady fans like me." I am eating some crow, but nothing makes it taste better than a winning record. Go Patriots!
 

ashley1992

Moderator
Staff member
PatsFans.com Supporter
I wouldn't take Lazar too seriously with these takes. He does good research and analysis but also has takes that are a bit off.

Historically Bill does a good job on rookie/young QBs. It's the disciplined, patient vets that present problems.

Hebert has had his problems with BB and Tua has a 76.5 Qb rating throwing for 177ypg. Not exactly lighting it up.
I think that's why if there was a team that I would be the most worried about in the AFC, it would be the Chiefs, simply because of the qb and his experience, although he usually doesn't do as well against us as he does against other teams, but he's still does better than most.
 

sb1

Hall of Fame Poster
I don't know if it's "anti-BB" but more of a misunderstanding of what he means to the franchise.

I think a lot of us feel that an all time great QB is more valuable than an all time great coach. That's not anti-BB.

I don't think anyone here really thinks Bill sucks or at least I'd hope not. BB right now has a rebuilding team on a rookie QB whose window realistically should not be open yet - in the conversation among the best in the AFC. That's remarkable.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I think a lot of us feel that an all time great QB is more valuable than an all time great coach. That's not anti-BB.

I don't think anyone here really thinks Bill sucks or at least I'd hope not. BB right now has a rebuilding team on a rookie QB whose window realistically should not be open yet - in the conversation among the best in the AFC. That's remarkable.
Spot on. What this season has proven as compared to last is Bill needs good QBing just like every other HC/GM.
 

jdlboot14

On the Game Day Roster
I had a thought recently about BB's longevity as coach. I could see a situation where, say we win a SB again in the next couple years, and BB steps down as coach to hand off to JMD or Patricia or Steve Jr. and stays on as the GM or "senior advisor" role. That would be a great scenario in my mind. But even if we get the 2nd round of the playoffs this year would be a massive accomplishment, and enough to silence the stupid "Pats dynasty was all Brady" talk. Because the Bucs aren't winning anything this year, and I'm ecstatic about that.
 

RobertWeathers

Author of the Port Huron Statement
PatsFans.com Supporter
I think a lot of us feel that an all time great QB is more valuable than an all time great coach. That's not anti-BB.
Yep. You and I have debated that position before. I have no interest in doing it again. The horse is dead.

I will do it with someone else :p
I don't think anyone here really thinks Bill sucks or at least I'd hope not. BB right now has a rebuilding team on a rookie QB whose window realistically should not be open yet - in the conversation among the best in the AFC. That's remarkable.
Sure the hell is.
 

Rob0729

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Eh I don't see any anti-BB crowd. Other than maybe one poster but he hasn't posted in a while.

I don't want to turn this into a Brady discussion (or more than it has). A lot of the pro-Brady crowd are somewhat anti-Belichick, On the flip side a lot of the pro-Belichick are somewhat anti- Brady. It isn't that they are overtly anti-Belchick, but they don't give Belichick some of the credit he deserves probably because they feel it will take away from Brady's accomplishments. These people focus a lot of the 2000 season and his Cleveland years even though they were upwards to 25 years ago. But again, it works both ways.
 

Rob0729

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To address the many posts that players are the ones who make the difference and the coach doesn't have that much effect. I think this year shows that Belichick can affect wins and losses than a lot of people say. The Patriots' defense has become so dominant, not just because the talent on the field, but because the Belichicks and Mayo retooled the defense to play to the talent they had's strengths and put them in the best position to win. A lot of coaches would probably just kept running their same defense and try to get the players to excel in it. Many coaches are very inflexible that way.

I think this defense could be a good to great defense without their current coaching based on the talent, but they are dominant defense because of Belichick.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
To address the many posts that players are the ones who make the difference and the coach doesn't have that much effect. I think this year shows that Belichick can affect wins and losses than a lot of people say. The Patriots' defense has become so dominant, not just because the talent on the field, but because the Belichicks and Mayo retooled the defense to play to the talent they had's strengths and put them in the best position to win. A lot of coaches would probably just kept running their same defense and try to get the players to excel in it. Many coaches are very inflexible that way.

I think this defense could be a good to great defense without their current coaching based on the talent, but they are dominant defense because of Belichick.
Sure it is the coaching and not all the FA money he spent and draft picks? I mean, this is the nonsense that gets irritating. Is Bill a defensive savant? Of course. Does he need talent like every other HC/DC? Of course. His defense last year got obliterated by the Rams, Miami and Bills in successive weeks. He then went out and spent a ton of money and also draft capital to get much better players.
 

Rob0729

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Sure it is the coaching and not all the FA money he spent and draft picks? I mean, this is the nonsense that gets irritating. Is Bill a defensive savant? Of course. Does he need talent like every other HC/DC? Of course. His defense last year got obliterated by the Rams, Miami and Bills in successive weeks. He then went out and spent a ton of money and also draft capital to get much better players.

I said this defense would be good or great without Belichick, but Belichick did a lot of major tweaks to this defense to maximize the talent on this team. The Pats went from a man defense to a cover-2 zone base midseason. Few coaches would make that move. Most coaches will try to make players work in their system or only make minor tweaks.

I agree the nonsense is irritating that people don't recognize how much coach has impacted this defense. When are you guys going to give Belichick the credit he deserves?

You claim Belichick is a defensive savant, but then think it is ridiculous to say that his coaching can help make a good or great defense a dominant defense. Then who cares if he is a defensive savant then? By your logic any coach could be coaching this team and the defense would still be dominant.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I said this defense would be good or great without Belichick, but Belichick did a lot of major tweaks to this defense to maximize the talent on this team. The Pats went from a man defense to a cover-2 zone base midseason. Few coaches would make that move. Most coaches will try to make players work in their system or only make minor tweaks.

I agree the nonsense is irritating that people don't recognize how much coach has impacted this defense. When are you guys going to give Belichick the credit he deserves?

You claim Belichick is a defensive savant, but then think it is ridiculous to say that his coaching can help make a good or great defense a dominant defense. Then who cares if he is a defensive savant then? By your logic any coach could be coaching this team and the defense would still be dominant.
I am just pushing back against the notion that his coaching supersedes player talent. It doesn't. We learned that last year and this off-season when he spent $165 mil upgrading the team.
 

Rob0729

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I am just pushing back against the notion that his coaching supersedes player talent. It doesn't. We learned that last year and this off-season when he spent $165 mil upgrading the team.

I specifically stated that based on the talent that they would be good to great without Belichick. Where did I say coaching supersedes talent? But coaching can make a good or great team into an elite team. Coaching cannot make a bad team into an elite team.
 

amfootball

In the Starting Line-Up
I specifically stated that based on the talent that they would be good to great without Belichick. Where did I say coaching supersedes talent? But coaching can make a good or great team into an elite team. Coaching cannot make a bad team into an elite team.
I agree then.
 

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