Belichick's 'prove it' time table.

[PatsFanInVa]

The funny thing is I think they are minimizing Brady in the process. Part of what makes Brady special is he came into the league as a skinny kid with a doughy physique with not a lot of college experience due to an unique situation in Michigan and then proceeded to work his ass off to become the greatest QB of all time. But it took years and years of hard work for Brady to get there. Brady was the first one at Gillette in the morning and the last one to leave at night.

Unlike Manning, Brady didn't come into the league as a near finished product. Brady worked harder than everyone else and that is how he became that once in a millenial QB.

A perfect blend of nature and nurture - I don't think everybody who works as hard as Brady could succeed like he did. He's not a 1-in-7-billion guys worker. But out of the few guys with the potential, his was hidden in a weird way. For most QBs, by the time they're in the NFL, they're mainly not going to be "projects," physically. TFB came in and played the game into submission, making it slow down for him... and then all his work on strength etc. began to pay off... and surprisingly ended up with this insanely high ceiling.

 

[1960Pats]

And Belichick had nothing to do with it? People forget there was a serious debate after the 2001 season on whether the Pats should trade Bledsoe or Brady and there a lot of rational sane people saying to trade Brady.

Brady was good his first few years. He wasn't a great QB yet. He certainly wasn't elite. And the era where defenses won championships and the Pats won their first two Super Bowls primarily on the backs of their defenses. To say it was Brady that was the difference between winning the Super Bowl and fighting for a playoff spot in 2001 and 2003 is re-writing history.

I was an AOLe at the time but I remember the Brady-Bledsoe wars very well. Apparently you were one of the "rational" and "sane" Bledsholes. Thankfully Bill was not.

It was obvious to me (and Belichick as well) that Brady was the better QB. That's why Bill didn't go back to Drew after he came back until he was forced to when ****sburgh tried to end Brady's season/career in the AFCCG. But by the time the SB rolled around Bill went back to Brady.

To say that Brady wasn't the difference during the first dynasty is not only a re-write of history, it's an insult to history as well as to Brady and Belichick.

 

[1960Pats]

Can someone please explain to me why a post that should be about Bill Belichick (the current Patriots head coach) was moved to the 'Tom Brady' Forum? I don't understand how that works.

I think it's because Team Bill needs to downgrade Brady's accomplishments to make their points about Bill.

 

[1960Pats]

Anyway, to move off the Brady thing. Which this post is not about; BB having 5 years to rebuild his program seems more than fair to me. No other coach as far as I know has been given 5 years in a long time. Can anyone think of one? All but 7 of the current HCs have been at their current team for 4 years or less. The only one of those coaches that has been with their team longer that hasn't run a super bowl is Mike Zimmer for the Vikings.

At least they managed to make a conference championship in 2017, which probably saved his job for a while IMO. He's the only coach that has been at his job for more than 4 years who hasn't won an SB championship. The only SB he ever won was as a position coach with Dallas 25 years ago. Interestingly enough, he is the example you can point to for the minimum amount of success an NFL coach needs to keep his job.

I don't know what that means compared to BB who has already won championships, but I think it is worth noting. If in 7-8 years he has pretty much duplicated what Zimmer has done and nothing more (or even less) I wonder if that will start to change opinions about him as the GOAT coach.

After what Bill has accomplished here in the last 20 years I'll give him as long as he wants, at least until he shows signs of being too old to get the job done.

 

[SVN]

I hope bb retires this offseason , just to see the reaction on this board. We have the most fickle minded fans. Last yr brady wasnt the same player. This yr BB isnt the same coach.

 

[Kontradiction]

I hope bb retires this offseason , just to see the reaction on this board. We have the most fickle minded fans. Last yr brady wasnt the same player. This yr BB isnt the same coach.

Northeastern US fans, in general, are horrible. We are among them.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

Belichick can go 3-13 for 3 years and get fired and in 10-15-20 years it won't even be mentioned, when was the last time you heard someone talk about Chuck Nolls record without Terry Bradshaw.

All of this is in the moment media fodder, he doesn't have anything to prove except maybe to his own ego.

No one calls Chuck Noll the GOAT and said Bradshaw was a system QB

 

[Rob0729]

I was an AOLe at the time but I remember the Brady-Bledsoe wars very well. Apparently you were one of the "rational" and "sane" Bledsholes. Thankfully Bill was not.

It was obvious to me (and Belichick as well) that Brady was the better QB. That's why Bill didn't go back to Drew after he came back until he was forced to when ****sburgh tried to end Brady's season/career in the AFCCG. But by the time the SB rolled around Bill went back to Brady.

To say that Brady wasn't the difference during the first dynasty is not only a re-write of history, it's an insult to history as well as to Brady and Belichick.

In 2001, I felt Bledsoe was more talented, but Brady was the far better fit for the Patriots' offense and they needed to trade Bledsoe.

The problem with Bledsoe wasn't talent. It was that he was a product of a QB system that became obsolete in the 21st century. He was a seven step drop QB with a cannon arm. In the 21st century, that leads to about 5-7 sacks a game. In the modern NFL, QBs have to get rid of the ball quickly unless they are a mobile QB or a QB who can move around the pocket. And even back when QBs like Bledsoe flourished in the 80s and 90s, they still wouldn't work in the Erhardt-Perkins system which the Patriots' offense was based off of in 2001.

I have no idea if Belichick thought Brady was clearly more talented than Bledsoe. Neither do you. We do know he didn't think Bledsoe was more suited for the Patriots' system or going up against the defenses of the time.

But if Marino (who is arguably the best seven step drop QB in NFL history) was in his prime and playing in the 21st century, he probably would have been nothing more than an above average QB if that. The NFL had already passed Bledsoe by by 2001. You don't see any seven step drop QBs in the NFL for a reason.

I am not recreating history. I am just looking at situation the way it was. Bledsoe was just not a fit for the Patriots' offense. It had nothing to do with how talent he or Brady had, it was just Bledsoe was bad match. It would be like if Belichick had Troy Brown running deep routes all game or Ted Johnson playing mostly in coverage.

 

[1960Pats]

In 2001, I felt Bledsoe was more talented, but Brady was the far better fit for the Patriots' offense and they needed to trade Bledsoe.

The problem with Bledsoe wasn't talent. It was that he was a product of a QB system that became obsolete in the 21st century. He was a seven step drop QB with a cannon arm. In the 21st century, that leads to about 5-7 sacks a game. In the modern NFL, QBs have to get rid of the ball quickly unless they are a mobile QB or a QB who can move around the pocket. And even back when QBs like Bledsoe flourished in the 80s and 90s, they still wouldn't work in the Erhardt-Perkins system which the Patriots' offense was based off of in 2001.

I have no idea if Belichick thought Brady was clearly more talented than Bledsoe. Neither do you. We do know he didn't think Bledsoe was more suited for the Patriots' system or going up against the defenses of the time.

But if Marino (who is arguably the best seven step drop QB in NFL history) was in his prime and playing in the 21st century, he probably would have been nothing more than an above average QB if that. The NFL had already passed Bledsoe by by 2001. You don't see any seven step drop QBs in the NFL for a reason.

I am not recreating history. I am just looking at situation the way it was. Bledsoe was just not a fit for the Patriots' offense. It had nothing to do with how talent he or Brady had, it was just Bledsoe was bad match. It would be like if Belichick had Troy Brown running deep routes all game or Ted Johnson playing mostly in coverage.

IMO you are recreating history, especially when claiming that Marino would be "nothing more than an above average QB if that." I don't recall a QB who could get rid of the ball so quickly and so accurately, even when rushers came in untouched. That would work well now.

Brady did many things better than Drew and it wasn't just because of the system. Brady didn't force passes, felt pressure coming, read defenses and hit the RBs on swing passes in stride, all much better than Drew.

If it was simply a matter of Drew not fitting into the offense then why was he starting after a 5-11 season the year before and why wasn't the system changed?

 

[Rob0729]

I was an AOLe at the time but I remember the Brady-Bledsoe wars very well. Apparently you were one of the "rational" and "sane" Bledsholes. Thankfully Bill was not.

It was obvious to me (and Belichick as well) that Brady was the better QB. That's why Bill didn't go back to Drew after he came back until he was forced to when ****sburgh tried to end Brady's season/career in the AFCCG. But by the time the SB rolled around Bill went back to Brady.

To say that Brady wasn't the difference during the first dynasty is not only a re-write of history, it's an insult to history as well as to Brady and Belichick.

Again, Bledsoe's downfall wasn't his talent. It was his inability to take three steps back and get rid of the ball quickly. Belichick knew his style of QB was coming to an end and within a few years after he was traded to the Bills, the five to seven step drop QB was all but gone from the NFL other than Bledsoe who had a few decent years in Dallas.

And Brady wasn't THE DIFFERENCE in the first dynasty. That is an insult to Belichick, McGinest, Law, Bruschi, and all defense especially in 2003 when they were easily a top 10 of all time. Brady played a key roll, but the defense was far more instrumental in the first dynasty than Brady. It was the way the team was designed.

 

[Rob0729]

IMO you are recreating history, especially when claiming that Marino would be "nothing more than an above average QB if that." I don't recall a QB who could get rid of the ball so quickly and so accurately, even when rushers came in untouched. That would work well now.

Brady did many things better than Drew and it wasn't just because of the system. Brady didn't force passes, felt pressure coming, read defenses and hit the RBs on swing passes in stride, all much better than Drew.

If it was simply a matter of Drew not fitting into the offense then why was he starting after a 5-11 season the year before and why wasn't the system changed?

Marino had a fast release for the 80s and early 90s, not for the modern NFL. And yes, he was great at stepping up in the pocket, but that again was a different era. The game is much faster now than it was then.

And I said Brady was far more suited for the Pats' offense right off the bat. It just took him a good 3-4 years to grow into an elite QB. Bledsoe was an awful fit for the Pats' offense. He was a great QB if he could step back 5-7 steps, survey the field, and throw it down the field. He was awful when he took the snap, take one or two steps and throw a screen pass. He was awful at it. It wasn't his game. Unfortunately, for him, that was the direction the NFL was moving.