Belichick's 'prove it' time table.

[PatsWSB47]

Brady's elite status is internal. It's always been there...at least I dont know when it began but you could see it at Michigan. Before he knew the answers to all test in the NFL he had the obsession to be great when he had to be. He's always been unathletic enough to know that he had to perfect and maximize what abilities he did have in order to be great. Weve seen shiny new quarterbacks with best arms and the best legs
beat out Brady this year or that year only to fade away as Brady kept winning. So while others had the "elite" fantasy style points, Brady had the elite heart, drive and winning results. He listened to coaching and learned. He understood he had to keep learning. Belichick obsession to be prepared for every situation was just the guy Brady needed feed his obsession to do the same. Brady and Belichick together made a 20 year dynasty. Without each other we get what every other franchise gets. A once in a while run.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I don't get why people have to make Brady elite from day one.

Because of the ever-present danger that guys they want to suck had something to do with developing him. He had to come into the league straight out of Zeus' split-open cranium, in full pads and helmet, or else it's possible that football's a team sport, that The Greatest might just be different for playing in New England than in other circumstances. Those are opinions with their own online armies these days.

 

[Rob0729]

Because he was an elite player who always did what it takes to win, even then. Go back and look at the 4th quarter of SB in 2003. The Pats defense that was so good all year basically fell apart, but Brady turned it up a notch and led them to the win. It’s thing like that, that made him elite and separated him from players like Manning

I am sorry he wasn't elite in 2003. That is rewriting history. He was a very good QB, but he wasn't elite yet. You are pointing to one game. Where was that eliteness when the Pats beat Cleveland 9-3 or Dallas 12-0 or Miami 12-0 that season? He was showing flashes of eliteness, but he wasn't there yet. The guy worked his ass off to get there.

 

[lancerman]

I am sorry he wasn't elite in 2003. That is rewriting history. He was a very good QB, but he wasn't elite yet. You are pointing to one game. Where was that eliteness when the Pats beat Cleveland 9-3 or Dallas 12-0 or Miami 12-0 that season? He was showing flashes of eliteness, but he wasn't there yet. The guy worked his ass off to get there.

He was 3rd in MVP votes....

 

[Rob0729]

Because of the ever-present danger that guys they want to suck had something to do with developing him. He had to come into the league straight out of Zeus' split-open cranium, in full pads and helmet, or else it's possible that football's a team sport, that The Greatest might just be different for playing in New England than in other circumstances. Those are opinions with their own online armies these days.

The funny thing is I think they are minimizing Brady in the process. Part of what makes Brady special is he came into the league as a skinny kid with a doughy physique with not a lot of college experience due to an unique situation in Michigan and then proceeded to work his ass off to become the greatest QB of all time. But it took years and years of hard work for Brady to get there. Brady was the first one at Gillette in the morning and the last one to leave at night.

Unlike Manning, Brady didn't come into the league as a near finished product. Brady worked harder than everyone else and that is how he became that once in a millenial QB.

 

[Rob0729]

He was 3rd in MVP votes....

And three years ago, Carson Wentz was. Is he elite. He might be available this offseason. You want him to be your QB of the future?

That means nothing to me. The Pats were 14-2. Of Brady is going get a lot of credit for that whether he deserved it or not. If you think he was in same stratosphere as Manning or McNair that season, you are crazy.

 

[TheRainMaker]

I am sorry he wasn't elite in 2003. That is rewriting history. He was a very good QB, but he wasn't elite yet. You are pointing to one game. Where was that eliteness when the Pats beat Cleveland 9-3 or Dallas 12-0 or Miami 12-0 that season? He was showing flashes of eliteness, but he wasn't there yet. The guy worked his ass off to get there.

He led the league in TD's his second season starting and 6th in yards (2002). He was 6th in TD's in 2003 and 10th in yards. While it wasn't pretty, he and the D were in control of almost every game the 2003 season. Rose to the occasion for the shoot out with Manning in their first meeting at the RCA dome. He lit up the Panthers stacked D in the Super Bowl. He was elite.

 

[DaBruinz]

If Brady wins the Super Bowl and Belichick doesn't at least make it back to the AFCCG in the next few years, his legacy and mystique definitely takes a good hit. People are already going at it which I don't think is fair. But it is so obvious that Brady was the driving force behind our success.

The defenses of 2003 and 2004 were the driving forces behind the early success. And that is totally on BB. Heck, the Pats have lived and died by his personnel moves or lack thereof.

Belichick is also mostly responsible for Brady's development on the field. Brady get's credit for recognizing the need for plyometrics to extend his longevity and for his off-season habits.

But as many people have said, it was a symbiotic relationship. It took both of them to get to the 9 SBs and the 6 wins.

 

[lancerman]

And three years ago, Carson Wentz was. Is he elite. He might be available this offseason. You want him to be your QB of the future?

That means nothing to me. The Pats were 14-2. Of Brady is going get a lot of credit for that whether he deserved it or not. If you think he was in same stratosphere as Manning or Moon that season, you are crazy.

Brady led the league in TD's in 2002, he was getting MVP votes in 2003, he was clearly considered elite ever since and was in conversations against Manning who was winning MVP's as that's around the time that debate started, All Pro in 05.

Wentz had one good season ever period

 

[DaBruinz]

The funny thing is I think they are minimizing Brady in the process. Part of what makes Brady special is he came into the league as a skinny kid with a doughy physique with not a lot of college experience due to an unique situation in Michigan and then proceeded to work his ass off to become the greatest QB of all time. But years and years of hard work for Brady to get there. Brady was the first one at Gillette in the morning and the last one to leave at night.

Unlike Manning, Brady didn't come into the league as a near finished product. Brady worked harder than everyone else and that is how he became that once in a millenial QB.

But without Belichick being amenable to Brady's unique training with a guy who many have called a "health charlatan", Brady doesn't become the guy he is today. How many people really think other teams would have been as amenable to Brady training with the guy, let alone going into business with him with a facility right next to their Stadium?

 

[SVN]

The defenses of 2003 and 2004 were the driving forces behind the early success. And that is totally on BB. Heck, the Pats have lived and died by his personnel moves or lack thereof.

Belichick is also mostly responsible for Brady's development on the field. Brady get's credit for recognizing the need for plyometrics to extend his longevity and for his off-season habits.

But as many people have said, it was a symbiotic relationship. It took both of them to get to the 9 SBs and the 6 wins.

Its so myopic to view the current version of brady as the same from 20 yrs ago. People forget how much BB/josh have changed the offense around brady. Brady made everything work but its they who said we are going to try this. From conventional to spread in 2007 , to two TE in early 2010 and then to PA with heavy running game, they have done it all. And brady has grown and soaked it all in and executed it to perfection.

 

[Rob0729]

Brady led the league in TD's in 2002, he was getting MVP votes in 2003, he was clearly considered elite ever since and was in conversations against Manning who was winning MVP's as that's around the time that debate started, All Pro in 05.

Wentz had one good season ever period

He led the league in TD's his second season starting and 6th in yards (2002). He was 6th in TD's in 2003 and 10th in yards. While it wasn't pretty, he and the D were in control of almost every game the 2003 season. Rose to the occasion for the shoot out with Manning in their first meeting at the RCA dome. He lit up the Panthers stacked D in the Super Bowl. He was elite.

Are we just going to cherry pick stats to create an argument. Brady was third in passing attempts in 2002. He was eighth in completion percentage. He was eighth in TD % in terms of attempts. He 24th in YPA. He was seventh in YPG. He was 9th in QB rating. Just because he had the most TDs doesn't make him elite. He was good, but he also had to throw a lot because the Pats' defense fell apart in 2002 and so did the running game.

Last year, Jameis Winston was second in the league in TDs. He will be available this offseason. Want him to be the Pats' starting QB next year?

 

[SVN]

Brady led the league in TD's in 2002, he was getting MVP votes in 2003, he was clearly considered elite ever since and was in conversations against Manning who was winning MVP's as that's around the time that debate started, All Pro in 05.

Wentz had one good season ever period

if you listened to the mediots back then, it was all about manning . Can manning beat the pats, can manning win in the post season. Brady was a begrudging acknowledgement surrounded by a good team and coaches. It was quite unfair to brady but thats how it was. it boggled my mind how much manning lovefest went on.

 

[Rob0729]

But without Belichick being amenable to Brady's unique training with a guy who many have called a "health charlatan", Brady doesn't become the guy he is today. How many people really think other teams would have been as amenable to Brady training with the guy, let alone going into business with him with a facility right next to their Stadium?

I think Belichick played a big role in Brady's development, but I think plenty of teams would have put up with Alex Guerrero for Brady. Hell, Green Bay let Favre have his own private locker room because he was too good to shower with his teammates.

 

[DaBruinz]

Not too get all hyperbolic but a once loved wife who becomes neglected, unappreciated and mistreated just because shes getting older is going to seek comfort elsewhere. Why would anyone accuse her of being disloyal for seeing the writing on the wall?

How was Brady being "neglected, unappreciated and mistreated"? Because Belichick didn't want to take a chance that a 40+ something Brady wouldn't last through a guaranteed 3 year contract? Mind you. No 40 something QB had won the SB prior to Brady in 2018. BB was more than willing to go year by year at near market value with Brady, but guaranteeing 3 years would have hamstrung this team if Brady suffered another injury like the ACL, the Foot, or the shoulder.

People see to have forgotten that Brady was given a lot of special treatment during his time in NE. From the team allowing him to train with his own personal trainer (Alex Guerrero) to allowing said trainer and QB to open a Physical Therapy business right next to Gillette thereby ensuring name recognition.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think Belichick played a big role in Brady's development, but I think plenty of teams would have put up with Alex Guerrero for Brady. Hell, Green Bay let Favre have his own private locker room because he was too good to shower with his teammates.

But I don't believe that Brady would have been as successful in his development with another franchise. Hence, I don't believe he'd have the perks that he had with the Patriots. And it's very questionable whether or not another team would have tolerated Guerrero.

 

[Redman443]

BB looks silly here, he thought Brady was washed up, we all did late last year so he didnt try as hard to keep him

 

[PatsWSB47]

How was Brady being "neglected, unappreciated and mistreated"? Because Belichick didn't want to take a chance that a 40+ something Brady wouldn't last through a guaranteed 3 year contract? Mind you. No 40 something QB had won the SB prior to Brady in 2018. BB was more than willing to go year by year at near market value with Brady, but guaranteeing 3 years would have hamstrung this team if Brady suffered another injury like the ACL, the Foot, or the shoulder.

People see to have forgotten that Brady was given a lot of special treatment during his time in NE. From the team allowing him to train with his own personal trainer (Alex Guerrero) to allowing said trainer and QB to open a Physical Therapy business right next to Gillette thereby ensuring name recognition.

Well that's the debate. You can't see how a guy who knows hes still loaded with fuel in the tank couldn't get a multi year deal or sufficient weapons to make his skill useful? Clearly Brady can still play at a high level. Brady believed it. Belichick didn't. I can't blame him for thinking he couldn't and I cant blame Brady for knowing he could.

 

[lancerman]

Are we just going to cherry pick stats to create an argument. Brady was third in passing attempts in 2002. He was eighth in completion percentage. He was eighth in TD % in terms of attempts. He 24th in YPA. He was seventh in YPG. He was 9th in QB rating. Just because he had the most TDs doesn't make him elite. He was good, but he also had to throw a lot because the Pats' defense fell apart in 2002 and so did the running game.

Last year, Jameis Winston was second in the league in TDs. He will be available this offseason. Want him to be the Pats' starting QB next year?

You just listed 5 additional stats where he was in the top 10... of course that plus leading the league in TD's is elite. This year he was 19th completion percentage, 6th in TD%, 11th in YPA, 9th in rating.... are we going to say he's not considered elite right now?

 

[DaBruinz]

Its so myopic to view the current version of brady as the same from 20 yrs ago. People forget how much BB/josh have changed the offense around brady. Brady made everything work but its they who said we are going to try this. From conventional to spread in 2007 , to two TE in early 2010 and then to PA with heavy running game, they have done it all. And brady has grown and soaked it all in and executed it to perfection.

So true.. Which is why I stated that it was a symbiotic relationship. Brady was the perfect QB to get the others on the offense to buy into it what the coaches were selling. I honestly wish that the two sides had been able to reach a compromise like 2 years guaranteed and the 3rd guaranteed for injury only. That way both sides were protected.

It clearly wasn't meant to be. So we move on. We relish the 6 SB wins. We thank Brady for what he brought. We hope that he's successful, just not against us. He's in a win it now situation in Tampa. As I mentioned before, they only have 31 players under contract next season and $30M in cap space before players earned some NLTBE incentives. That cap space is down to 24M according to OTC. That's not a lot of space. And with the likes of Lavonte David, Suh, and Gronk as UFA, they're going to be hard-pressed to bring them back