Belichick should trade the 1st rounder for Garoppolo

[oceansizer]

Fitzpatrick as a bridge QB and mentor for a young QB taken in draft sounds not bad. Mariota or JG for reasonable price I can live with that. On the other hand Newton back to the town would be unacceptable to me. The only way I can see Cam again is similar role to Hill from the Saints.

 

[RIpats88]

Bill may not want to roll the dice and wait for Jimmy or a draft pick falling to them in round 1 so I see him going after Dalton or Fitzgerald as I'm sure he aspires to play for every AFC East team.

You could sign one of those guys and still get Jimmy technically if he becomes available.

Mike reiss was saying this.

 

[captain stone]

I'm not trading ANYTHING for Grop's contract, never mind a 1st-rounder.

 

[carmelo15]

Tom wouldn't have won a Super Bowl this season if he was a Patriot

TB has an A roster ... NE has a C- roster .. its not that hard to see

You're mad Brady left? Why? He wouldn't have won anything on the 2020 Pats roster

Wed be in the playoffs every year with a chance to win all we had to do was trade for Diggs. Look at the garbage we got for the picks to trade for him

 

[TheRainMaker]

You could sign one of those guys and still get Jimmy technically if he becomes available.

Mike reiss was saying this.

Yes, however, I was thinking that Jimmy wouldn't want to return with another veteran already on the roster.

 

[ChrisR2223]

I'm not trading ANYTHING for Grop's contract, never mind a 1st-rounder.

See if Bill agrees.
Maybe we trade and Jimmy reworks his deal for games played that protects us from a injury situation.
At this point I don’t want to play musical chairs and be left with Cam Newton.
I say eff it go for Mariota and then see if we can get Jimmy G later

 

[Deus Irae]

Tom wouldn't have won a Super Bowl this season if he was a Patriot

TB has an A roster ... NE has a C- roster .. its not that hard to see

You're mad Brady left? Why? He wouldn't have won anything on the 2020 Pats roster

Just to point out:

Brady took the Patriots to 12 wins last year, even as the OL became a complete dumpster fire, and the WR corps collapsed. Brady would likely have been in position to improve upon 12-4 and a 1st round bounce this year, because the line was better.

 

[Sicilian]

Just to point out:

Brady took the Patriots to 12 wins last year, even as the OL became a complete dumpster fire, and the WR corps collapsed. Brady would likely have been in position to improve upon 12-4 and a 1st round bounce this year, because the line was better.

He'd improve the offense without a doubt, but the defense this year suffered a LOT of losses and the schedule was harder. So I'm not convinced we win 12 again in 2020.

 

[Deus Irae]

He'd improve the offense without a doubt, but the defense this year suffered a LOT of losses and the schedule was harder. So I'm not convinced we win 12 again in 2020.

Brady, when he's able to lead a functional offense, improves defenses, as well. Just ask the Bucs about that.

 

[Sicilian]

Brady, when he's able to lead a functional offense, improves defenses, as well. Just ask the Bucs about that.

I agree, when he takes over for a QB who turned the ball over 31 times, he helps put that defense into a better situation. But Newton only turned the ball over 11 times last year. Tampa already had the #1 run defense in the league and a number of young players. I'm not going to give Tom Brady credit for everything.

 

[sb1]

Tom wouldn't have won a Super Bowl this season if he was a Patriot

TB has an A roster ... NE has a C- roster .. its not that hard to see

You're mad Brady left? Why? He wouldn't have won anything on the 2020 Pats roster

A QB who can throw a football would have turned a C- roster into C+ or more.

 

[RIpats88]

Brady, when he's able to lead a functional offense, improves defenses, as well. Just ask the Bucs about that.

Except our offense is not functional. Meyers was our top receiver. No tight ends, Edelman injured most of the year.

At least last year we had dorsett, Edelman, gordon(for some games) and AB for a game.

I'm not sure we go 12-4 and more than a wildcard loss again

 

[Deus Irae]

I agree, when he takes over for a QB who turned the ball over 31 times, he helps put that defense into a better situation. But Newton only turned the ball over 11 times last year. Tampa already had the #1 run defense in the league and a number of young players. I'm not going to give Tom Brady credit for everything.

Newton sucked. The offense with Newton sucked. Is it your position that Brady wouldn't have been able to get more points, keep the offense more competitive and, therefore, on the field more, and given the defense more minutes in a beneficial position?

Come on......

 

[Deus Irae]

Except our offense is not functional. Meyers was our top receiver. No tight ends, Edelman injured most of the year.

At least last year we had dorsett, Edelman, gordon(for some games) and AB for a game.

I'm not sure we go 12-4 and more than a wildcard loss again

The OL was better last year than in 2019. All I've read about on this site when I've gone back and looked threads over is how many times Cam supposedly missed seeing wide open receivers, or put the ball in the dirt 5 yards away from those supposedly open receivers. Well, y'all can't have it both ways, no matter how hard you try. If Newton was the problem, and the OL was better, and the WRs were getting open, then "But Brady couldn't have" fails miserably as an argument.


Sorry, but that's just logic and reality.

 

[Sicilian]

Newton sucked. The offense with Newton sucked. Is it your position that Brady wouldn't have been able to get more points, keep the offense more competitive and, therefore, on the field more, and given the defense more minutes in a beneficial position?

Come on......

Not my position at all. But if you want me to say that Brady makes up for the loss of your top four linebackers, starting SS, NT, and a dropoff in play from Gilmore (not knocking him, it's hard to recreate a DPOY season), I simply disagree. This defense was taking a major step back this year, especially on run defense which put us in extremely difficult 3rd downs all year, and Brady wasn't going to fix that. But do you honestly think the 2020 roster outside of QB was better than the 2019 one? Better OL, yes. Possibly better WRs? At least when Edelman was still playing, but not after that. TE was a wash. Defense was significantly worse, and schedule was harder. It's not outlandish to suggest they don't win 12 games again given those circumstances.

 

[Deus Irae]

In 2011, Tom Brady took a football team who's defensive secondary was so bat that the team barely belonged in the playoffs all the way to within less than 5 minutes from winning a Super Bowl championship. In 2017, Tom Brady took a football team with a wildly overrated defense to within a head coach pout on SB day from winning a SB championship. In 2019, Tom Brady took a football team that had no business finishing with a winning record to a 12-4 season and a playoff berth. In 2020, Tom Brady took a football team that hadn't had a winning season in 4 years, hadn't won double digit games in 10 years, hadn't made the playoffs in 13 years, and hadn't won a playoff game in 18 years, and won the Super Bowl.

Yet, somehow, we've got people here who continue to try arguing that he couldn't have gotten the 2020 Patriots team to be a playoff team or any type of contender.

 

[RIpats88]

In 2011, Tom Brady took a football team who's defensive secondary was so bat that the team barely belonged in the playoffs all the way to within less than 5 minutes from winning a Super Bowl championship. In 2017, Tom Brady took a football team with a wildly overrated defense to within a head coach pout on SB day from winning a SB championship. In 2019, Tom Brady took a football team that had no business finishing with a winning record to a 12-4 season and a playoff berth. In 2020, Tom Brady took a football team that hadn't had a winning season in 4 years, hadn't won double digit games in 10 years, hadn't made the playoffs in 13 years, and hadn't won a playoff game in 18 years, and won the Super Bowl.

Yet, somehow, we've got people here who continue to try arguing that he couldn't have gotten the 2020 Patriots team to be a playoff team or any type of contender.

Playoff team sure. Cam threw 8 tds, 8! Contender, absolutely not. You really think brady would win a championship throwing to jakobi meyers and byrd?

I am not disagreeing that brady improves teams. But he only can so much. The fact that he threw 25 tds in 2019 and then 40 with tampa shows that the receivers were holding him back.

2011 and 2017 he had Gronk and legit receivers like Edelman, Welker, cooks, Hernandez, amendola.

 

[RIpats88]

The OL was better last year than in 2019. All I've read about on this site when I've gone back and looked threads over is how many times Cam supposedly missed seeing wide open receivers, or put the ball in the dirt 5 yards away from those supposedly open receivers. Well, y'all can't have it both ways, no matter how hard you try. If Newton was the problem, and the OL was better, and the WRs were getting open, then "But Brady couldn't have" fails miserably as an argument.


Sorry, but that's just logic and reality.

Both were the problem. I don't think cam newton had the best situation to succeed.

But also you can still see his mechanics were off when guys were open. Just like with Brady in 2019 the media said you could tell guys weren't getting separation.

 

[sb1]

Not my position at all. But if you want me to say that Brady makes up for the loss of your top four linebackers, starting SS, NT, and a dropoff in play from Gilmore (not knocking him, it's hard to recreate a DPOY season), I simply disagree. This defense was taking a major step back this year, especially on run defense which put us in extremely difficult 3rd downs all year, and Brady wasn't going to fix that. But do you honestly think the 2020 roster outside of QB was better than the 2019 one? Better OL, yes. Possibly better WRs? At least when Edelman was still playing, but not after that. TE was a wash. Defense was significantly worse, and schedule was harder. It's not outlandish to suggest they don't win 12 games again given those circumstances.

Yeah. OL was better and running game was better in 2020 than 2019.

Front 7 was much worse, secondary was worse, WR was worse. Coaching was worse too- it wasn’t a great year for Bill or Josh.

The odds Brady gets the 2020 Patriots team to 12 wins are as close to zero as it gets. To be fair that’s the GM’s fault more than Brady’s and Brady’s absence shone a spotlight on the deficient roster.

 

[Deus Irae]

Playoff team sure. Cam threw 8 tds, 8! Contender, absolutely not. You really think brady would win a championship throwing to jakobi meyers and byrd?

Brady won a championship throwing to just two WRs in 2001. Brady basically made a career out of throwing to less than stellar WR corps. But suddenly we're supposed to assume that he couldn't have made Meyers and Byrd better than they were with Newton?

Why do people on this (and far too many other) board just chuck logical consistency out the window just because they want to make some dubious point?