BB awarded NFL Executive of the Year

[RobertWeathers]

No. We’ve had plenty of players on great deals where they were arguably underpaid. Gronk springs to mind. Or Brady. Or Edelman. Even Gilmore more than lived up to his big contract

I question if you understand what overpaying and underpaying is relative to the market and performance.

 

[Biffins]

I question if you understand what overpaying and underpaying is relative to the market and performance.

Sure you can question, but I’ll explain.

To me locking in Gronk for 8 years was amazing. And he had to live by that contract. And the market for TEs as a whole was underpaid relative to WRs which were arguably overpaid. The catches per $ or yards per $ for Gronk were far cheaper than a True number one receiver, almost half infact. Gronk’s YPC were phenomenal and comparable to any true receiver. And his total yards were similar. And he blocked on top. And we were getting all that for $8-9m. Top Receivers like megatron and others were close to $20m. We were able to make Gronk the highest paid TE and still getting him for peanuts relative to production compared to mediocre WRs make mid teens etc.

So to me Gronk was severely underpaid for his production and we were able to take advantage of market dynamics as well as his own injury history to lock him long term at a very cheap price (even if that cheap price made him the highest paid TE).

I can make another and similar case for Brady. Infact Brady at $25m per year for an MVP season is also ridiculously cheap.

Gronk was great value, for $9m. Brady was great value. Edelman was great value. It’s not enough to just pay whatever price to get the player. It’s about receiving good value.

“Price is what you pay, value is what you get” Warren Buffett.

 

[1960Pats]

Sure you can question, but I’ll explain.

To me locking in Gronk for 8 years was amazing. And he had to live by that contract. And the market for TEs as a whole was underpaid relative to WRs which were arguably overpaid. The catches per $ or yards per $ for Gronk were far cheaper than a True number one receiver, almost half infact. Gronk’s YPC were phenomenal and comparable to any true receiver. And his total yards were similar. And he blocked on top. And we were getting all that for $8-9m. Top Receivers like megatron and others were close to $20m. We were able to make Gronk the highest paid TE and still getting him for peanuts relative to production compared to mediocre WRs make mid teens etc.

So to me Gronk was severely underpaid for his production and we were able to take advantage of market dynamics as well as his own injury history to lock him long term at a very cheap price (even if that cheap price made him the highest paid TE).

I can make another and similar case for Brady. Infact Brady at $25m per year for an MVP season is also ridiculously cheap.

Gronk was great value, for $9m. Brady was great value. Edelman was great value. It’s not enough to just pay whatever price to get the player. It’s about receiving good value.

“Price is what you pay, value is what you get” Warren Buffett.

The opposite end of that is Nelson Algholor.

 

[upstater1]

For all this talk about spending a bundle in FA, look at the contracts. I realize Jonnu's doesn't look good, but that's the only one. Bourne is a bargain. Henry is already outperforming. Judon is getting paid less than what a top pass rusher is getting elsewhere. And even algholor, whatever money he's making, the guy was given a 2 year contract. He is literally in his LAST year.

So what are people talking about when they reference this FA splurge?

 

[PatsWickedPissah]

Will this award cost the Patriots a draft pick?

 

[borg]

Sure you can question, but I’ll explain.

To me locking in Gronk for 8 years was amazing. And he had to live by that contract. And the market for TEs as a whole was underpaid relative to WRs which were arguably overpaid. The catches per $ or yards per $ for Gronk were far cheaper than a True number one receiver, almost half infact. Gronk’s YPC were phenomenal and comparable to any true receiver. And his total yards were similar. And he blocked on top. And we were getting all that for $8-9m. Top Receivers like megatron and others were close to $20m. We were able to make Gronk the highest paid TE and still getting him for peanuts relative to production compared to mediocre WRs make mid teens etc.

So to me Gronk was severely underpaid for his production and we were able to take advantage of market dynamics as well as his own injury history to lock him long term at a very cheap price (even if that cheap price made him the highest paid TE).

I can make another and similar case for Brady. Infact Brady at $25m per year for an MVP season is also ridiculously cheap.

Gronk was great value, for $9m. Brady was great value. Edelman was great value. It’s not enough to just pay whatever price to get the player. It’s about receiving good value.

“Price is what you pay, value is what you get” Warren Buffett.

Bill has been the best at exploiting NFL market aberrations......TE, slot WR, FB

Bill has also been the best at calculating 'diminishing marginal return' when factoring salary vs production that correlates to winning.
Ex: Teams wildly overpay for sacks, a statistic that doesn't necessarily correlate to winning. Bill refused to overpay (until this year).
He used to value depth.

Gotta also give Bill props for his ability to use player insecurities against them contractually and as a tool to motivate. The guy can leverage with the best of them though his fastball has lost velocity in recent years and he's been relying on the knuckle-curve and Kraft-bucks of late

 

[PatsDeb]

Obviously they didn't check first with all the geniuses on Patsfans.com. Congrats BB. If Mack is anything close to TFB going forward, that pick alone should win him the award.

 

[Ring 6]

Bill has been the best at exploiting NFL market aberrations......TE, slot WR, FB

Bill has also been the best at calculating 'diminishing marginal return' when factoring salary vs production that correlates to winning.
Ex: Teams wildly overpay for sacks, a statistic that doesn't necessarily correlate to winning. Bill refused to overpay (until this year).
He used to value depth.

Gotta also give Bill props for his ability to use player insecurities against them contractually and as a tool to motivate. The guy can leverage with the best of them though his fastball has lost velocity in recent years and he's been relying on the knuckle-curve and Kraft-bucks of late

He spent more because he had more, not because he changed his philosophy.

 

[goheels22002]

It's meaningless to say he spent $165 million. We all know why.

Look at the contracts relative to this year's cap and next year's cap. They're not bad. We're paying Kendrick Bourne $3m a year for the next 5 years in a league trending toward a $250m cap.

17 years ago we lost David Givens to a contract twice as big as that and the cap at the time was 1/3rd of what it will be next year.

Belichick knows what he's doing with these contracts. I would not like to negotiate across the table from him. Just wait to see the contracts that will be doled out for players in the next 2 years. It will blow your mind.

I agree with you. The previous poster's crack about Belichick spending $165 million is uninformed. The key to the turnaround was getting to a point where the cap killing dead money from 2020 was gone and the Patriots could bring in some talent while starting out with a cap-friendly QB group.

Your last comment is the one where it gets interesting. This year he's got a small amount of money to work with ($16M) and some very tough decisions on several veterans. He'll make those calls and open up some more room to continue the re-build. With all the shuffling on the coaching staff and the front office, I hope he has another good to great year with the draft.

 

[upstater1]

I agree with you. The previous poster's crack about Belichick spending $165 million is uninformed. The key to the turnaround was getting to a point where the cap killing dead money from 2020 was gone and the Patriots could bring in some talent while starting out with a cap-friendly QB group.

Your last comment is the one where it gets interesting. This year he's got a small amount of money to work with ($16M) and some very tough decisions on several veterans. He'll make those calls and open up some more room to continue the re-build. With all the shuffling on the coaching staff and the front office, I hope he has another good to great year with the draft.

Yes, we need a talent overhaul still, especially on defense. Not a wholesale 11 players, but we need new blood in every unit. DE, CB, S, DT and at least 2 LBs. 6 new guys needed. On offense, I really only see a need for a top WR and maybe a tackle.

 

[venecol]

I agree with you. The previous poster's crack about Belichick spending $165 million is uninformed. The key to the turnaround was getting to a point where the cap killing dead money from 2020 was gone and the Patriots could bring in some talent while starting out with a cap-friendly QB group.

Your last comment is the one where it gets interesting. This year he's got a small amount of money to work with ($16M) and some very tough decisions on several veterans. He'll make those calls and open up some more room to continue the re-build. With all the shuffling on the coaching staff and the front office, I hope he has another good to great year with the draft.

The $165M was just in guarantees, they spent way more than that. Both set NFL records. Kraft acknowledged it was a risky move usually taken by desperate teams. Guaranteed money means Kraft had to dish out real money upfront. I wonder how he feels about his investment after seeing the team go 1-4 to end the season and getting smoked in the WC. He also said they're in the business of winning. That means SBs.

 

[JarOfMayo51]

So what are people talking about when they reference this FA splurge?

Well, they did spend like a quarter of a billion dollars in FA

I'd call that a splurge hehe

 

[Ring 6]

The $165M was just in guarantees, they spent way more than that. Both set NFL records. Kraft acknowledged it was a risky move usually taken by desperate teams. Guaranteed money means Kraft had to dish out real money upfront. I wonder how he feels about his investment after seeing the team go 1-4 to end the season and getting smoked in the WC. He also said they're in the business of winning. That means SBs.

They spend to the cap every year. Bob Krafts money gets spent in the same amount regardless of how it is spent.
This was the year that a lot of cap money was available for free agency.
I would assume Kraft sees a playoff berth in year 1 of a rebuild as a good step.

 

[venecol]

They spend to the cap every year. Bob Krafts money gets spent in the same amount regardless of how it is spent.
This was the year that a lot of cap money was available for free agency.
I would assume Kraft sees a playoff berth in year 1 of a rebuild as a good step.

You keep on saying this is what they always do but you're lying. The Patriots never gave out so much guaranteed money before. Ever. The guaranteed money is actually paid out, so no, Kraft dished out way more money than ever before. In fact, more money than anyone in the league had spent before.

Patriots team owner Robert Kraft tells King, "I've never had to come up with so much capital before."

As Kraft told Sports Illustrated: "I just want to compliment our staff, our organization, Bill, all the scouting and personnel people, for a real team effort. Look, we're not going to know 'til the fall. We always used to make fun of the people who won the headlines in March, but here, I believe we really improved our team."

Consider that from 2016 to 2020, the team that spent the most guaranteed money in NFL free agency improved by an average of 5.4 wins that season, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. The issue was the following season, as teams that spent the most guaranteed money in free agency from 2016 to 2019 had an average decline of 5.5 wins in Year 2.

Will New England Patriots see results after spending $163 million in free agency?

Recent history suggests the Patriots will get a boost after finishing 7-9 in 2020, but the hard part will be sustaining success after splurging.

www.espn.com.au

Despite the record millions spent, the Pats improved by only 3 wins, well below the 5.4 average. Kraft must be dissapointed.

 

[Ring 6]

You keep on saying this is what they always do but you're lying. The Patriots never gave out so much guaranteed money before. Ever. The guaranteed money is actually paid out, so no, Kraft dished out way more money than ever before. In fact, more money than anyone in the league had spent before.

Patriots team owner Robert Kraft tells King, "I've never had to come up with so much capital before."

As Kraft told Sports Illustrated: "I just want to compliment our staff, our organization, Bill, all the scouting and personnel people, for a real team effort. Look, we're not going to know 'til the fall. We always used to make fun of the people who won the headlines in March, but here, I believe we really improved our team."

Consider that from 2016 to 2020, the team that spent the most guaranteed money in NFL free agency improved by an average of 5.4 wins that season, according to ESPN Stats & Information research. The issue was the following season, as teams that spent the most guaranteed money in free agency from 2016 to 2019 had an average decline of 5.5 wins in Year 2.

Will New England Patriots see results after spending $163 million in free agency?

Recent history suggests the Patriots will get a boost after finishing 7-9 in 2020, but the hard part will be sustaining success after splurging.

www.espn.com.au

Despite the record millions spent, the Pats improved by only 3 wins, well below the 5.4 average. Kraft must be dissapointed.

They spend to the cap every year. That is a fact.
This year they had more cap room, so they signed more, and more expensive players.
Guaranteed money is under the cap just like non guaranteed money.
It’s not that complicated.

Ideally you have less money to spend because yuh spent more of keeping players, but it changes year to year.
Had Brady agreed to stay and/or players didn’t opt out last year there would have been less spent on free agency, but the cap expenditures would have been the same.
Over time, it all costs the same thing.

“Coming up with capital” one year means you spend less actual cash in later years, but over a period of time everyone spends the same thing because the cap controls what you spend. The CBA dictates which season cash payments get applied to the cap, which causes uneven year to year cash cost.

 

[venecol]

They spend to the cap every year. That is a fact.
This year they had more cap room, so they signed more, and more expensive players.
Guaranteed money is under the cap just like non guaranteed money.
It’s not that complicated.

Ideally you have less money to spend because yuh spent more of keeping players, but it changes year to year.
Had Brady agreed to stay and/or players didn’t opt out last year there would have been less spent on free agency, but the cap expenditures would have been the same.
Over time, it all costs the same thing.

“Coming up with capital” one year means you spend less actual cash in later years, but over a period of time everyone spends the same thing because the cap controls what you spend. The CBA dictates which season cash payments get applied to the cap, which causes uneven year to year cash cost.

Non guaranteed money isn't always paid out. You realize that don't you?

 

[Patjew]

Forum improvement idea (and no offense to anyone because they're both cool to me): Ring 6 and Venecol are no longer allowed to see the other's posts.

 

[Ring 6]

Non guaranteed money isn't always paid out. You realize that don't you?

Then it’s paid to someone else. It still is all under the cap.

 

[Ring 6]

Forum improvement idea (and no offense to anyone because they're both cool to me): Ring 6 and Venecol are no longer allowed to see the other's posts.

You don’t have to tell me twice to stop banging my head against a brick wall. Thanks for the advice

 

[upstater1]

The $165M was just in guarantees, they spent way more than that. Both set NFL records. Kraft acknowledged it was a risky move usually taken by desperate teams. Guaranteed money means Kraft had to dish out real money upfront. I wonder how he feels about his investment after seeing the team go 1-4 to end the season and getting smoked in the WC. He also said they're in the business of winning. That means SBs.

It all seems to reasonable to me. Like, if you're not paying these players that much, you're paying others. Only Jonnu's contract in retrospect seems like too much. It was just the fact that we signed so many that made it unusual.

But you're going to pay layers that much regardless if they're your own or someone else's. In fact, Belichick took advantage of a year in which the cap decreased, strapped a lot of teams, and if anything depressed contracts on the open market.

Just wait