Are Patriots Tanking or is this a “Bridge Year”?

[signbabybrady]

No non-qb free agent has a first year cap hit of 25 million.

There were over 70 players available that would have improved this team. We could have upgraded 8-10 starters. You can’t tell me improving almost half the starters makes it impossible to contend.
Houston last year is a perfect example. Every year teams overhaul their roster and become competitive.

Did the Texans have a huge free agent class last year? I don't recall.

Or did they just have a killer draft?

 

[lancerman]

Those 3 would have to get us to the SB because those 3 contracts don't remain fixed at their 2024 cost. Next year their combined cost goes to @ $84M of the Pats @ $98M in anticipated cap space. Effectively precluding any 2025 additions via FA, making them and the 2025 draft the full extent of the rebuild.

Exactly. They are horrible contracts if you don't think the team is capable of winning a SB this year or next year.

 

[VrabelJr]

Did the Texans have a huge free agent class last year? I don't recall.

Or did they just have a killer draft?

Decent drafting for a couple years but also a pretty easy schedule due to sucking. We’ll see how they do this year.

 

[p8ryts]

Exactly. They are horrible contracts if you don't think the team is capable of winning a SB this year or next year.

You aren't winning any Super Bowls with Brissett, rookie Maye, Zappe or Milton.

 

[lancerman]

You aren't winning any Super Bowls with Brissett, rookie Maye, Zappe or Milton.

Exactly, which is why we should be signing guys who can be core players long term. Not short term guys who are meant to make the team look prettier in a losing season

 

[Ring 6]

Exactly, which is why we should be signing guys who can be core players long term. Not short term guys who are meant to make the team look prettier in a losing season

Which is not what we did

 

[Ring 6]

Exactly. They are horrible contracts if you don't think the team is capable of winning a SB this year or next year.

You picked them.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Exactly, which is why we should be signing guys who can be core players long term. Not short term guys who are meant to make the team look prettier in a losing season

And who exactly are they? Signing Barmore prematurely has severely backfired already. Dugger? Another decision that backfired. They transittion tagged him, yet nobody had any interest in him. So the Pats sign him to more money than they tagged him for. Very bizarre. Owenu was a desperation signing given it would've created an even more massive hole along the OL. Signing Bourne a week into FA was beyond weird.

There's a reason Bill would drag it out with these players because he knew his system would trump the player.

 

[mgteich]

Exactly, which is why we should be signing guys who can be core players long term. Not short term guys who are meant to make the team look prettier in a losing season

I agree that we didn't sign any long-term core players other than Gibson. We also made sure that we didn't lose any.
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It is not at all clear that anyone that folks here think that we should have signed as free agents had any intention of playing for the patriots.

The surprise increase in cap money for each team made it easier for everyone to keep their own. Also, those who were available could ignore terrible teams without quarterbacks.
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Yes, we signed the usual transitional vets on one-year contracts.
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What would have been terrible was overpaying for core players, paying them for 2024 availability. Sure, we could have spent another $20M AAV on a couple of $10M AAV players starting in 2024. More of them will be available next year, and $20M of 2024 compensation will have been saved.

That being said, I would have overpaid for a LT, perhaps even now. That would NOT have been about 2024. That would be allowing Maye to be play earlier and be better protected. $10M for a one-year LT would have been worth it.

 

[StrawHatPatriot]

It's both. It all depends on how Drake Maye plays

 

[Wozzy]

You aren't winning any Super Bowls with Brissett, rookie Maye, Zappe or Milton.

But Nick Foles or Trent Dilfer can? They're not winning any Super Bowls with these two starting offensive tackles.

The Eagles OLine was best in the league in 2017, if you have that you can win with average/good at QB... the Patriots offensive line will be lucky if they don't outright suck. QB seems like the least of their troubles.

 

[lancerman]

But Nick Foles or Trent Dilfer can? They're not winning any Super Bowls with these two starting offensive tackles. The Eagles OLine was best in the league in 2017, if you have that you can win with average/good at QB... the Patriots offensive line will be lucky if they don't outright suck.

Nick Foles is streaky and when he goes on one of his streaks he plays at an elite level. He did it once on a stacked team that made Wentz look like an MVP and it equalled a Super Bowl.

Dilfer had one of the greatest defenses in history.

 

[Wozzy]

Nick Foles is streaky and when he goes on one of his streaks he plays at an elite level. He did it once on a stacked team that made Wentz look like an MVP and it equalled a Super Bowl.

Dilfer had one of the greatest defenses in history.

Exactly my point, Foles, Wentz... no different from Brissett, and none possibly as good as Maye could be.

A merely average/good QB behind a dominant line can win a ring. We’ve all seen Mahomes and Brady run for their lives behind a bad line.

If the Pats don’t have a shot at a ring this year, QB is probably not the first reason why. Maye might be outstanding for all we know.

 

[TommyD4207]

Oh they’re tanking all right.

As yet another example: Gilmore signs with Vikings and not with NEP.

They wouldn't even pay 50 cents on the dollar for Judon. You think they're going to spend any money on Steph Gilmore?

 

[TommyD4207]

So what if they are new or not. Actually not being new means they should already fit in so less concern too.

Would you rather those players were not retained creating more holes?

If they were tanking why invest at all they only serve to hurt your tanking chances.

Because the old players won 4 games last year.

 

[Wozzy]

Because the old players won 4 games last year.

It’s a team sport, this ^ isn’t really an argument.

Randy Moss played on the worst team in the league 2 win Raiders… it didn’t mean he sucked. BB traded a 4th for him and he posted the single greatest WR season in history. He’s the second greatest WR in history after Jerry Rice and the best athlete to ever play the position.

A team can have great and good players on it and still not execute. Coaching, poor scheme, injuries, horrid play at a critical position like QB can make a team terrible. This team had a top five defense along with the 32nd worst offense last year.

This team had good talent, talent that needed to be retained if they wanted to turn it around quickly. The collaboration didn’t address the OT position and if they suck this season, beyond injuries, that will be the reason why.

Suggesting they’d “tank” is a joke. Nobody tanks until the season is almost over. Due to divisional setup teams with sub 500 records can make the playoffs and earn that playoff money. Absolutely nobody is thinking “tank” in August… it’s a silly notion.

 

[signbabybrady]

Because the old players won 4 games last year.

Subtracting some of the few good players from a 4 win team accomplishes what exactly?

 

[lancerman]

Exactly my point, Foles, Wentz... no different from Brissett, and none possibly as good as Maye could be.

A merely average/good QB behind a dominant line can win a ring. We’ve all seen Mahomes and Brady run for their lives behind a bad line.

If the Pats don’t have a shot at a ring this year, QB is probably not the first reason why. Maye might be outstanding for all we know.

Brissett has never shown the ability to hit the high end levels of Foles and Wentz.

Dilfer is a better expectation for Brissett. Even then you are talking about one of the best defenses ever being neccessary.

Maye is the variable. But again, the Pats won't have the 2000 Ravens defense or the stacked roster the Eagles had. So yes you are correct that QB isn't the primary reason why they don't have a shot. But until we know we have a competent QB, we probably would be held up by it even with an above average roster.

 

[AQPE]

You tank for a chance at Caleb, Daniels, or Maye. You don't tank for a LT.

If the LT position is a fiasco - as I think it is for this team - and there is no realistic way to markedly improve next year at that position through free agency or trades - and I don’t see anyone great projected to be there next FA - then I personally have no issue with them “tanking” this season to get their future LT1 in the draft rather than overspending and tying themselves to a mediocre player. I say that as a ST holder who loves going to the games but is not particularly excited to sit there watching them suck again

With that said, I can’t think of too many LTs in the league right now that I think are great players other than the aging Trent Williams. Ronnie Stanley is pretty good, so is Wirfs in TB and Armstead in Miami. The Pats can win without a great LT, if they have good enough coaching and elite talent elsewhere. They don’t have the elite talent and the jury’s out on their coaching.

So for me if they are not able to be competitive for the playoffs this year - and I simply don’t think they will be now with Judon gone and no Barmore - I’d rather see them drafting in the top 5 next spring looking at a potentially elite player. We will see whether someone like Will Campbell looks potentially elite but if he doesn’t or if he may not be available at their spot then I’d be happy to see them take anyone at literally any position that can perform at a higher level than the guys they have.

 

[Wozzy]

Brissett has never shown the ability to hit the high end levels of Foles and Wentz.

Dilfer is a better expectation for Brissett. Even then you are talking about one of the best defenses ever being neccessary.

Maye is the variable. But again, the Pats won't have the 2000 Ravens defense or the stacked roster the Eagles had. So yes you are correct that QB isn't the primary reason why they don't have a shot. But until we know we have a competent QB, we probably would be held up by it even with an above average roster.

Foles and Wentz did not show the ability to hit the high levels until they played behind the best offensive line in the league.

The same can be said for Jared Goff, he was written off as a salary dump to Detroit. They built arguably the best line in the NFL and nod suddenly Goff has magical abilities again.

A majority of fans attribute a lot of success by QB’s that is really the result of a great team around them. Put Brissett on Detroit and his numbers look similar to Goff. We saw that last season in Cleveland, he had a 146 QB Rating behind the Browns great line. Football is won in the trenches.