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fair catch fryar

In the Starting Line-Up
This is such a dumb debate. Of course he's going to decline every year he gets older. He knows that, which is why he is committed to playing as long as he can by preparing to the best of his ability. As long as he can compete, he will play. I think Brady will be the first to know when he has crossed that threshold of which he knows it's time to hang it up. All these dumbasses that keep writing these articles are just hoping that their article is at the right time so they can say they saw it first, not to mention the millions of other team's fans that want him to retire so they might have a chance that will read their article as a sign of hope. I know this ride is almost done, but as long as it keeps going I'm going to try to enjoy every minute of it. It's a phucking gravy at this point for Pats fans.
 

patsfan13

Hall of Fame Poster
PatsFans.com Supporter
We can evaluate him better when he has more of a complete cast. As pointed out above huge number of injuries during the preseason to WR and Edleman suspension, integrating Gordon ect.
We wil know when the body of work for this year is complete.

I have seen more balls thrown away when nothing is there.
 

upstater1

Pro Bowl Player
It's the footwork. He's throwing off his back foot too much. He's not comfortable back there.

But--when he is comfortable? Did anyone look at that absolute rope he threw to Edelman in the 4th? That was fired in there. A laser. He still has it.

For whatever reason, he's gotten in the habit of throwing off his back foot on short to intermediate throws.
 

Deus Irae

PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club
PatsFans.com Supporter
5 games with a QB rating over 100, and 6 games with a QB rating over 90 despite

  • No Edelman for 4 games
  • No Burkhead for 5 games
  • Gronk out for a game and obviously not right for several others
  • No Gordon for 3 games, and a Gordon who's had to slowly ramp up his game
  • Hogan pulling a no-show for the first few games of the season
  • A lead RB1 who's a rookie, missed much of training camp, and is out again
  • A backup RB1 who was lost for the season in game 1, when he was taken out by his own teammate
  • WRs tipping the ball off to opponents as if it's Christmas gift time
  • RB corps so depleted that Patterson is serving as an actual RB
  • Pass catching TE2 that can't even get on the field
  • Starting RT who can't stay healthy
  • Backup RT who seems to have completely lost the ability to play the position
That's just the offense issues list, and not even all of that. And Brady's still got this team 4th in points.


But let's jump to premature conversations about declines and cliffs!
 

TheBostonStraggler

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
This talk's been going on since 2009. Every time we see Brady at less that optimum for a week or two, we get this crap. It almost never takes external factors into account or accepts that players have ups and downs.

Media/people have been projecting an absurd idolized perfection onto Brady for some years now. Yes, Brady's the best QB to play the game, period. Longevity, consistency, results -- there's no argument IMHO. But he has never been perfect as there's no such thing as a QB who makes the right read every pass play, makes the perfect throw or perfect decision every time, who can't be temporarily made 'off' kilter by D scheming, affected by crappy O line play, lack of complimentary parts or a lack of team balance. And there isn't a season that can't be pointed to where Brady hasn't had a bad game or bad half (a triple negative? :)). An off game/span, a down point, has been happening to the GOAT back when he was still fresh faced (and happened to Montana and the rest of those in that GOAT category).

"Players have ups and downs" is 100% correct. Yes he's in the far upper range of normal QB retirement age, however, one small down sample during an otherwise solid performance, 6-2 season is proof of nothing even for someone in that upper age range.

So ultimately why does media and some fans make it, laughably, inconceivable that he could have a down game or half or quarter except that he has lost the ability to play at a high level (something they've been doing that for 5+ year at least)? My best explanation for that is: in the 1860s Census there were check boxes for "can read", "can write", and no kidding there was a check box to indicate "idiotic". If they included that check box for the 2020 census, I suspect there'll be a lot of check marks.
 

TheBostonStraggler

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Thank You is a higher compliment than Winner, Straggs...FYI...I despise today's ADHD riddled "knowers of things!"...they ruin everyone's enjoyment of the game

A shout out to the Godfather of Patriot fans and all of the 20 degree Aluminum fandom. Much respect to those who were diehards when BB, TB, a comfortable stadium seat and back to back winning seasons were just a dream. That is "fan" purity. So I know "Thank You is a higher compliment than Winner" comes from experience that likely FAR outstrips fans that have been around only since TB,BB and know only entitlement (to be fair that certainly does not apply to every new fan). Except for a few crushing last minute SB losses, being a BB-TB era Patriot fan has been about as easy as it comes.

I'll tell ya this Joe, deflategate and seeing/listening to Roger was a catharsis for me. Since I've tuned out virtually all sports media with the exception of Patsfans. And I'll tell ya, it made the sky seem clearer and for sure the air smells a whole lot better :).
 

TheBostonStraggler

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Brady has been, and continues to be, gold. He keeps winning and guiding NE to some amazing wins and excellent records. Just this year he outscored KC, who many thought was the class of the League at the time. I still have much trust in him and if NE does NOT win the championship this February, I’m fairly certain Brady won’t be the weakest link.

Having said that : I’m open to the possibility Brady « isn’t what he once was ». What he once was hasn’t been seen before.

Long story short : though I still consider Brady to be amongst the best in the NFL, I am not blinded enough to say « he is every bit as good he always was ». And - as has been stated by many posters on here - eventually one of these writers will publish the cliff-story and be right. We just have no idea how far in the future that will be....

Yes, 2007 Brady, for example, and 2018 Brady aren't the same QB or person comparatively speaking. And yes it is always possible Brady is all of a sudden dropping off a cliff due to age. However, the sample size is extremely small and the evidence is far too thin. It isn't even in the realm of 'maybe' that Brady hitting a down spot is something new. It isn't new and isn't even out of a every seasonal norm. And unless we see a prolonged 'down' sample, this is just more of the same sports media blathering hysterics.

From a general perspective, even if age has caused him to slip to some measurable degree, Brady doesn't need to be superman, 2007 Brady or even 2018's best QB. Providing a level of X consistency that is 'good' is plenty good enough to get the 'prize' (IMHG his 2018 performance will be above that). It's BB and staff's job to recognize what consistency TB can provide (week to week and as the season progresses) and prepare plans and prepare other positions to provide Y in order for X+Y to equal victory. I also have faith BB and staff can provide that but maybe BB is dropping off a cliff too :).

Side note: I've always thought inability to recoup from injury and general wear, and/or losing the white hot fire needed to compete at the NFL level was the primary reason for retirement. It wasn't simply hitting an age that you can't think-decide-act quickly and in sync. Is there any reason to believe Brady has wear and tear that isn't getting better and/or has lost that critical fire to compete? If not IMHO Brady isn't and won't drop off a cliff. IMHO Brady is likely, probably in the relatively near future, to simply lose the fire versus dropping off a cliff (you got mega millions, you got family, your perspective changes as you age - you ultimately want to do something else with your time). It takes A LOT of time and hard work to compete at that level. Hard to imagine Brady, given all he has accomplished and accrued, will want to put that insane amount of time and effort in as the seasons go on. I just don't think that applies to 2018.
 

KontradictioN

Probably the nicest guy on the forum
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
He’s got two of his top targets on the mend, nursing injuries, or both. His starting RB has spent multiple games on the shelf and is a rookie and injuries took out the other two. Brady is fine. Watch the footwork and the legs.
 

DarrylS

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I have noticed a slight decline, but that decline still allows him to be the best QB in the NFL. Have wondered from the onset if missing the OTA's has impacted some of his timing..

The end is coming sooner rather than later for #12 and hopefully he knows when it is time to walk away on his terms...
 

PatriotsReign

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
This talk's been going on since 2009. Every time we see Brady at less that optimum for a week or two, we get this crap. It almost never takes external factors into account or accepts that players have ups and downs.
Fair points Dues, but we need to accept that it will be impossible for Brady to remain at last years level every year until he retires

The fact is, he will be worse as time moves forward from today. Not game by game but more overall year to year. He is not Superman.

As his fans, we can not allow ourselves to get into denial. We won’t get angry or frustrated because he’s given us the greatest performance at QB in NFL history. there will be some sadness, that’s just natural.

The only player I’ve seen retire without a decline was Big Papi. But I think he was just 40
 

Clonamery

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Fair points Dues, but we need to accept that it will be impossible for Brady to remain at last years level every year until he retires

The fact is, he will be worse as time moves forward from today. Not game by game but more overall year to year. He is not Superman.

As his fans, we can not allow ourselves to get into denial. We won’t get angry or frustrated because he’s given us the greatest performance at QB in NFL history. there will be some sadness, that’s just natural.

The only player I’ve seen retire without a decline was Big Papi. But I think he was just 40
You should write for the Lifetime Channel. Because I want to say while stamping my foot, "Don't tell me how I'm supposed to feel!"
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
It's the footwork. He's throwing off his back foot too much. He's not comfortable back there.

But--when he is comfortable? Did anyone look at that absolute rope he threw to Edelman in the 4th? That was fired in there. A laser. He still has it.

For whatever reason, he's gotten in the habit of throwing off his back foot on short to intermediate throws.

So, maybe an issue with his mechanics that he has yet to work out? Perhaps some annoying minor injury with his left leg? Maybe a timing issue with his receiving targets? Maybe anticipated pressure preventing him from stepping into throws a bit more often?
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Brady is on pace to make 590 pass attempts this season - about average for him. Keeping in mind that one of the 8 games he's played so far this season (wk-3 in DET) was one of the least productive of his entire career ...

-- his completion rate (67.5%) is higher than last year, slightly higher than in 2016, and significantly higher than 2014. In fact, it's his highest completion rate since 2007.
-- he's on pace for 32 TDs - same as last season and just about his average for the post-2008 period
-- his yds/game is 20 lower than 2016 and 20 higher than 2014
-- his sack rate is way down from last season, on a par with 2014
-- subtracting the three passes that were "caught", and then handed to a defender by the receiver, Brady's INT rate is identical to last season (1.4%) and below his career average

If he is inaccurate (a subjective judgement) on a higher percentage of his passes this season, he appears somehow to be compensating for it quite well. And, if he "fixes" whatever issue he may (or may not) be having, it will be terrifyingly awesome to watch.
 

Triumph

Hall of Fame Poster
I have noticed a slight decline, but that decline still allows him to be the best QB in the NFL. Have wondered from the onset if missing the OTA's has impacted some of his timing..

The end is coming sooner rather than later for #12 and hopefully he knows when it is time to walk away on his terms...

Are you saying after an 18 year career it might be over?
 
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