2020 Patriots Season:
Upcoming Opponent:
Next Up: at Chargers
Pick Results: NE: 88.3% at LAC: 11.7%

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Dec 6th

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archstanton543

In the Starting Line-Up
If Brady is hurt then why isn't he on the injury report with consistency? If they League catches wind of that you can bet that the Pats will be kissing another first rounder goodbye.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I honestly think Brady just doesn't care. He quits on some plays at light speed and loses focus once we are in the redzone. It is sad to say but Brady is playing at a near jag level. I really think his mind is going before his body.

Weirdly, I think it works in our favor when our offense doesn't have clear threats. It makes us unpredictable and forces McDaniels to be more creative. Our running game took a possible hit when Allen and Patterson got hurt and we may see a forced passing attack next week.

Our defense was pretty good and I liked what I saw from Shelton and the new guy #97. I prefer pure power upfront.

Brady was awful @DET in WK-3 (with barely anybody to throw to), awful @TEN in WK-10, and awful yesterday v. BUF. He was below average @PIT last week, and @BUF in WK-8.

However, he's been good to very good in the other 10 games, and his overall season stats are still on a par with the previous four years (aside from INT% and TD%), in spite of the five "below average" and "awful" games.
 

everlong

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
IDK. Butler's had a pretty sh itty first season over there. There was even talk of benching him in mid-season. He rallied from there, though, and I can imagine that maybe his pick-six was something of a "F**k this sh*t! I'm taking this one!" sorta thing. It was only his 3rd INT and 10th PD of the season with no guarantee of another opportunity this year.

Maybe it was frustration but if he picked it and ran out of bounds or took a knee like Harmon or Jones have immediately it could have had the same joy.
 

TB_Helmet

In the Starting Line-Up
2019 Weekly Picks Winner
BTW, this is as good a place as any......not sure who saw the Titans game but in spite of Deon Lewis I've been rooting for them because of Vrabel. However when Butler picked off a pass with no time on the clock and proceeded to run it in for a TD I was praying for him to fumble it and have the Redskins return it for a TD. What a glory hound, stat monger move, selfish move.

Lay off Malcolm. He made the greatest play in Patriots history. He gets a lifetime pass from me especially for something as innocent as what you’re upset about.
 

IllegalContact

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Regarding QB, I hate to say it, but I told you so......the good news is that this team is not nearly as dependent on a goat as we thought
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Maybe it was frustration but if he picked it and ran out of bounds or took a knee like Harmon or Jones have immediately it could have had the same joy.

Maybe.

We're both just speculating on what's going on in the head of someone we don't even know.
 

woolster22

PatsFans.com Supporter
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2019 Weekly Picks Winner
I noticed Shelton a few times in his limited snaps yesterday. He was playing with violence and intensity. More than once he dominated the middle, collapsing the pocket/blowing up the interior while playing some solid 2 gap.

It was exactly what this team needed after the watching the front 7 play on skates the last few weeks. If he keeps that up, even on 18 snaps a game, it will pay dividends. That said, the defense has quietly been putting together some solid performances lately (look at pts allowed!).

With all the high flying offensive outputs this year, the Pat's seem to have realized they can dominate against some of these pass first (offense AND defense) units. There has been discussion on this board for years about the pendulum swinging back to normal regarding the way defenses are being built to stop the pass and when offenses would begin to exploit the lack of heft in the trenches. We could have ran for 400yds yesterday. It seemed to me we took our foot off the gas around the start of the 4th. The Bill's had no answer, and wanted no part of the ass kicking the oline, gronk, Allen and Dev were handing out. Hell, Hogan was jawing with people all day! I didnt notice CP blocking much, but I imagine he was getting in on the fun too. He seems to be the kind of guy that would enjoy man handling someone all day instead of just running by em. They simply came out and took what they wanted. Haven't seen football like that in Foxboro since deflategate. The difference between the two? The Bill's actually have a run defense! Have they quit? Maybe. But I doubt they enjoyed getting physically dominated like that. It was embarassing.
 

everlong

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Lay off Malcolm. He made the greatest play in Patriots history. He gets a lifetime pass from me especially for something as innocent as what you’re upset about.

I haven't been on Malcolm nor was this Malcolm specific. I would have been rooting for anybody to fumble in that spot. For me he should have known better than most to just get down though.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
I noticed Shelton a few times in his limited snaps yesterday. He was playing with violence and intensity. More than once he dominated the middle, collapsing the pocket/blowing up the interior while playing some solid 2 gap.

It was exactly what this team needed after the watching the front 7 play on skates the last few weeks. If he keeps that up, even on 18 snaps a game, it will pay dividends. That said, the defense has quietly been putting together some solid performances lately (look at pts allowed!).

With all the high flying offensive outputs this year, the Pat's seem to have realized they can dominate against some of these pass first (offense AND defense) units. There has been discussion on this board for years about the pendulum swinging back to normal regarding the way defenses are being built to stop the pass and when offenses would begin to exploit the lack of heft in the trenches. We could have ran for 400yds yesterday. It seemed to me we took our foot off the gas around the start of the 4th. The Bill's had no answer, and wanted no part of the ass kicking the oline, gronk, Allen and Dev were handing out. Hell, Hogan was jawing with people all day! I didnt notice CP blocking much, but I imagine he was getting in on the fun too. He seems to be the kind of guy that would enjoy man handling someone all day instead of just running by em. They simply came out and took what they wanted. Haven't seen football like that in Foxboro since deflategate. The difference between the two? The Bill's actually have a run defense! Have they quit? Maybe. But I doubt they enjoyed getting physically dominated like that. It was embarassing.

Now, imagine that kind of rushing attack backed by a mobile QB who can make all the throws. I think that's what most offenses in the league will be shooting for, sooner rather than later.
 

tasmlab

Starting QB, won 20 SBs, number is retired
PatsFans.com Supporter
Brady's possible injury aside, it seems to me that the Pats have been doing more than just "tinkering" with the personnel and schemes on both offense and defense since the BYE. In retrospect, it feels like they've been actively experimenting with a lot of different stuff.

Almost as if they were rehearsing different game plans.
 

Lavictoire

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
I honestly think Brady just doesn't care. He quits on some plays at light speed and loses focus once we are in the redzone. It is sad to say but Brady is playing at a near jag level. I really think his mind is going before his body.

Weirdly, I think it works in our favor when our offense doesn't have clear threats. It makes us unpredictable and forces McDaniels to be more creative. Our running game took a possible hit when Allen and Patterson got hurt and we may see a forced passing attack next week.

Our defense was pretty good and I liked what I saw from Shelton and the new guy #97. I prefer pure power upfront.

Mentally, it probably still eats at Brady how he and the Pats could have had #6 if they just would have played Butler. Physically, he must be hurting in some way. The passing game has disappeared. Hopefully after the bye he comes out slinging it. They might be minimizing his throws for now against the tomato cans.
 

ivanvamp

In the Starting Line-Up
Watched the Saints/Steelers game after the Pats, really good game that went down to the final minute... the Saints are clearly the favorite to win the Superbowl, unless the Pats figure it out.. it would be a great matchup.

It's entirely possible that Saints-Pats wouldn't be a good matchup at all, but would be a blowout for New Orleans. The Pats seem like they can defend either the pass OR the run, but not both. Against Pitt they did a very good job against an explosive pass offense, but they got shredded on the ground. Or they can key on the run but that opens up the passing game. Unfortunately, New Orleans is great at both. The Pats would have to key on the Saints' running game and hope the secondary, on its own, would be able to handle NO's great receivers.

And then there's the NO defense, which is really good....

Oh well, I guess I'll worry about that if/when that time comes.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Mentally, it probably still eats at Brady how he and the Pats could have had #6 if they just would have played Butler. Physically, he must be hurting in some way. The passing game has disappeared. Hopefully after the bye he comes out slinging it. They might be minimizing his throws for now against the tomato cans.

More "the Pats would have won the SB if they'd just played Butler".

I was sick of this bullsh it already 9 months ago. Let it go.
 

Lavictoire

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
More "the Pats would have won the SB if they'd just played Butler".

I was sick of this bullsh it already 9 months ago. Let it go.

Talking about Bradys frame of mind after that season and I think it may be relevant to what we are seeing. Everyone is trying to figure out whats wrong.
 

Hyped

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Comments:

1.) Good to see PFK on top of things this week. I honestly wondered if the Miami ST fiasco was the end of the line for PFK. LOL.

2.) @maineman209 is by far my fave poster on patsfans.com, always backing up **** with hard numbers.....I cannot tell you how many times I have clicked on “Useful” when reading his posts....

3.) Running the ball is “going against the grain” and Baltimore is doing the same thing with success in today’s pass happy NFL...just saying...

4.) Is Brady hurt? I don’t know...but I do know this...Brady is gonna drag himself out there to win a game. **** this BS, “He don’t care” talk. I saw the man win his 5th Super Bowl ring LIVE in person...and I will never ever forget that as long as I live on planet earth....28-3 mother****ers..... It is as his father said, “It will end ugly.....” Brady is going to give it 100%+ every snap for the rest of his career....lay off mother****ers! (OK, I am on like my 6th drink......excuse my ****ing French)

5.) Hope Patterson is OK......we need him badly.

6.) The Bills have an ACTUAL RUN D, BTW....and we ran for 270+ on them...if we can run it like that rest of the way...we most certainly can make some noise in the pose-season.

7.) I think I am in love with Nick Foles now....he took a hard hit from Clooney and still hit his guy down field.....I would ABSOLUTELY agree with whoever in this thread who said he should be signed as our bridge QB......

8.) OK, it is now past my bed time...g’nite peeps...and do leave our beer and pizza for Santa...not that cookies and milk, BS! Trust me...I know fat men!
 

Patsfanin Philly

Pro Bowl Player
Lay off Malcolm. He made the greatest play in Patriots history. He gets a lifetime pass from me especially for something as innocent as what you’re upset about.
It is not innocent. That type of play cost SD a playoff victory versus Pats a few years back. 4th down interception and DB ( d back or d bag- both fit) runs it back instead of dropping to ground. Troy brown strips and Pats have life and win game,
 

Patsfanin Philly

Pro Bowl Player
Comments:



7.) I think I am in love with Nick Foles now....he took a hard hit from Clooney and still hit his guy down field.....I would ABSOLUTELY agree with whoever in this thread who said he should be signed as our bridge QB......
en!
He will be a free agent and we know BB likes to sign guys who have had success against him ( Amendola,Weller,Hogan)......
If he leaves Philly it would have to be the perfect situation as he has seen lousy situations when he left before....
I too like the idea....Of him as a bridge QB...
----------------
EDIT
* He has the size BB likes (6'4 243)
* He can take a hit
Extremely humble, wrote a book after the Super Bowl and donated all profits.
Check out this article and you'll see why he may be a perfect fit..
Eagles QB Nick Foles to GMs turned off by his humility: 'I don't want to play for you'
 
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Nunchucks

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Well that one was interesting. Maybe not as interesting as a lot of other games this week, but in a parochial sense there is a lot to talk about annual Buffalo beat down in Foxboro. Same old beat down, but with a lot of different moving parts.

1. General Offensive Observations - Kind of sucked again, at least for what we are used to seeing for the last 15 or so years. Kind of a different look you might say.

b. Brady is clearly hurt, and least to my mind. He has zero mobility within the pocket. He was constantly throwing (inaccurately) off his back foot, and rarely stepped up in the pocket. He passing stats have been ugly and getting worse over the last few weeks. It is not a coincidence that it all started from the game where some people were thinking he dinged his knee.

There might be those who will ring the "cliff" bell, and hope that THIS time they are right, but I don't think so, despite the title of this tome. Rather it's less about the cliff, and more about the injury that we will never know about until well into the off season, and then maybe not even then. That makes next week's game so important. IIRC they can clinch a bye week with a win, and they are going to need to be able to score given the Jets put up 38 against GB. Brady will need the time, or at least I HOPE its the kind of injury that time can help.

c. As usual I watched bits of a few of the games today ( NO/Steeler, KC/Seattle, and Houston/Eagle games) and ONE thing stood out in all of them. Every team on both sides made big passing plays throwing the ball to well covered receivers and allowed their receivers to make plays on them. That is something the Pats have RARELY done over the years and it seems in particular THIS year. If you aren't clearly open, then Brady isn't throwing you the ball.

It's not like he CAN'T throw a back shoulder fade, or the like. We've seen him do it and more than once. Wilson threw for 2 TD's on throws that Brady would have never made and not just to big receivers. Baldwin and Lockett each pulled down a rainbow thrown by Wilson. Check out the replays if you want to see what I mean.

Gordon is gone, but Hogan, CP, and Gronk all have some size and have all caught their share of 50-50 balls in their times. I'm thinking that the Pats need to throw more of those kinds of balls if they are going to go far in this post season.

d. All that being said, I think Josh did a good job setting up his game plan. Clearly he protected Brady with a massive running attack, and just 24 very short pass attempts. The results were 24 points and a lot more left on the table. AND it should be noted that while the Bills are the Bills, they DO have the 2nd rated run D going into this game, and a top 5 defense overall. If they ever get some consistent offense going, that D will look even better.

2. QB - No much more to add. It looked as bad as it seemed. Brady has thrived over the years despite his physical limitations because he could make people miss with subtle moves within the pocket. Only Marino in his prime did it as well as Tom has over the years. We saw NONE of that today. Blitzing against Brady was usually a non-starter vs the Pats, because historically Brady's stats against the blitz was better than when you didn't. Well today the Bill Blitz was very successful in getting Brady off his mark and making him throw short and too often inaccurately. Frankly he looked like a QB protecting an injury (and so did the game plan) Brady is one of the toughest players in the league. He has been Grogin/Bledsoe tough and then some over the years. Today he gave up on the play any time he felt pressure. That just not natural.

3. OL - There were 3 holding calls, though 2 were on Gronk and Edelman. That needs to stop. 5 called penalties, so while not great, it was a great improvement over last week.....relatively,

The success of the run game starts with the domination of the OL. What makes that notable is that (again) it was against one of the better run defenses in the league. When there weren't gaping holes, there were plenty of soft spots for the runners to gain consistent yardage.

I don't think it was a coincidence that the success of the running attack showed up the same time DAllen returned to the line up.

4. RB- This was Sony's best game. Just 18 carries to rush for 116 yds was very efficient. He seemed to rush with a bit more oomph imo. He also ran with great patience. He still doesn't run with much power, but it was better.

White had a nice run for his TD, but the one complaint I had with Josh was on that last drive inside the Bills' 10 having White as the RB was just dumb. He just isn't a GL RB....as much as I like him. That just shouldn't be his role.

CP the runner was very effective with his motion sweeps. I'm still wishing we'd see him featured more in the regular passing attack. I noticed he got dinged late in the 3rd quarter. They are going to need him back if they are going to make a deep run.

5. Receivers - What receivers? Outside of Edelman, all the WR's TE's COMBINED had 5 targets and only ONE catch for the game. Hogan was spotted slamming his helmet in frustration over "something". It's something to watch in the future. It IS his contract year.

6. General Defensive observations - Generally good. This was the same defense that has been HORRENDOUS against the run the last 3 weeks did exactly what they needed to do to slow the Bills offense. They "held" Josh Allen to just 30 yds rushing That notable because they showed a graphic that had Allen being the 5th best rusher in the league over the last 5 or 6 weeks. They also did a pretty good job on McCoy who has been very effective against the Pats over the years, especially in the passing game. He was held in check with only 9 rushing yds and 10 in the passing game.

The only long drive the Bills made was in garbage time, and then only after Allen made a great play avoiding a sack to throw that meaningless TD pass.

The pressure was decent, I thought. Especially when you consider the rush had to be controlled given Allen's running and evasion skills. The Pass coverage and LB/Secondary tackling was good as usual. It will be interesting to see if Allen improves his accuracy and football IQ in his second year. He has a lot of talent, but it still looks VERY raw.

7. Front 7 - From being sieves to being formidable and it couldn't have happened at a better time. The Bills clearly wanted to run the ball this game and found out they couldn't. The Pats ended up giving up less than 50 yds to the Bills RB's and controlled Allen for most of the game (5 for 30).

It should be pointed out (again) most of the damage that RB's have done to the Pats in recent weeks have come against dime defenses and to a lesser degree, nickel D's. Clearly today the Pats were in more base fronts, and the results showed.

8. Secondary - Good as usual. Another nice play on the GL for JCJ, and several more from the "other" McCourty, who seems to be getting better as the season has gone on.

Bottom line this secondary has been CONSISTENTLY good the entire year,

9. ST's - With the exception of one long KO return, the ST's did a nice job. Allen was consistent in his punting, while Gotskowski made all of his FG's and Points. Slater added 2 punt catches inside the Bills 10, and they got another punt block.

General Comments -

a. I didn't think that Brady was at fault on either pick.

b. I thought the officials did a nice job.

c. CBS gave us the last 4 minutes of the Eagles/Texans game and it was a beaut. Watson made a miracle throw to put Houston ahead, but not before spinning out of TWO sack attempts. What a play! Only to have the Eagles drive from their own 10 to the Houston 20 for the game winner. Foles passed for almost 500 yds in this game. You'd think with all the big names the Texans have on defense that they'd be better than that.

d. Gumble and Green were marginally mediocre. Didn't love them ore hate them.

e. I called it the "Cliff edition" more for click bait than reality. ;)

f. I think we'd have to go back to 2009 for a time where there was as many questions about a superbowl run as the Pats have now. They in control to get yet ANOTHER bye week with a win over the Jets in the regular season finale. It will be interesting to see what the Pats will look like when they emerge to play their first playoff opponent. One game left to go in the regular season and with the exception of the secondary and winning 10 or more games, NOTHING has been consistent this season

I was at the game, but I believe one of the more overlooked pieces of the game was when Keniota Davis *sp) made a play in the running game.
 

maineman209

Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal
Talking about Bradys frame of mind after that season and I think it may be relevant to what we are seeing. Everyone is trying to figure out whats wrong.

It's a good bet that everyone on the team was disappointed about losing the SB. If Brady was, at the time, particularly upset about any one aspect of the loss, it seems to me that it's at least as likely that he was upset with himself about losing control of the football on the 4thQ sack as he might have been over the Butler "benching".

Is Brady still suffering from a SB "hangover"? It's been 10 months of practice and prep, and 15 actual games since then, so I highly doubt it. Even so, we're both merely speculating on what might be going on inside the head of someone we don't actually know aside from seeing him on the idiot box.

As far as what's "wrong", the Pats are one freakish, game-ending play by the 'Fins and one almost successful comeback attempt against the Steelers from being 12-3 (or 11-3-1). Sure, the Pats have been successful on many such comeback attempts in "the past" - perhaps even most of them - but not ALL of them.

As far as what's "wrong" with Brady in particular ... In spite of Edelman "leading the league" in dropped passes, in spite of Gronk's play "falling off a cliff" (even though he was fine for the first six games of the season before hurting his back in week-6), in spite of 4 interceptions that literally went through the hand of his receivers, in spite of all Brady's "bad throws", in spite of playing the first three games of the season with only three WRs dressed for each game (all of them "2nd-tier"), in spite of Brady having three games in which he completed only 54% of his passes or less, here are Brady's completion percentages for the past five seasons:

2014 = 64.1%
2015 = 64.4%
2016 = 67.4%
2017 = 66.3%
2018 = 65.4%

Turn those four "thru the hands" INTs into receptions (Develin, Hogan and Gronk twice), and Brady has 66.9% completions. Turn just four Edelman drops into four more completions, and Brady is at 67.6%.

Meanwhile, the Pats' 2018 ground game is the best they've had since 2013 or 2012.

The Pats are Division Champs (again), in the playoffs (again), and one game (against the Jete in Gillette) away from locking up the #2 seed and a week off.

What's "wrong"? F**k if I know.
 
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