2020 Patriots Season:
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Dec 6th

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robertweathers

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Not at all, just wondering if missing the OTA's has effected his timing and stating the obvious that the end of his career is coming sooner rather than later....
I don't think posters should be shy in speculating Tom is slowing down - even if it's milliseconds worth of time. It's natural for humans in their 40s to experience a degredation in reaction time. I have no doubt Tom's reaction time isn't what it was 20 years ago.

The debate is if his age and reaction time are imparing his performance. For me, I'm not ready to make that claim.

I'm much more concerned about Gronk slowing down than Tom.
 

TomPatriot

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I skipped the last 2 pages on this thread because it will just develop into a circlejerk about Brady at some point. While I am sure that a lot of people might have good thoughts about it at this point I don't see there enough of a sample size to say anything of substance about Brady.

People that have read my stuff in the last few weeks know where I stand on the entire matter. That being said its 8 games in with an offense that has morphed a lot and might finally find its identity soon (hopefully ?).

Lets see how all of this plays out..

I suspect Brady is about to go on a serious roll sometime in the next few weeks. Let’s just say I’d hate to be the Jets in week 12 (or any other time :eek:).
 

slam

In the Starting Line-Up
It's great that there's a cottage industry devoted to inventing statistics to make Brady look bad after a five game win streak in which his team scored 38, 38, 43, and 38 before last weeks devastatingly awful 16 offensive point performance. Remember last year's "next level stat" of "interceptable passes" which shockingly downgraded Brady's performance? I can't even find anything about interceptable passes this year. Maybe because it wouldn't make Brady look bad this year since you couldn't count the three or four interceptions which bounced off receivers hands into the air and into a defensive player's clutches?

I mean it makes perfect sense that the 2nd most "inaccurate' passer according to the article linked in the OP is #8 in completion percentage, #11 in passer rating, #13 in yards/attempt. I guess the receivers are so amazing they make up for Brady's inaccuracy?

The one thing I'm legitimately concerned with about Brady's performance so far this season is the number of fumbles he's had this year. Some of them seemed to be the result of unnecessary risk, or ball he would have held onto in the past. The rest I'm going to chalk it up to a receiving corps so unsettled they had to trade for loose cannon Josh Gordon and a running game so unsettled we had featured back Coradelle Patterson.
 

Deus Irae

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The one thing I'm legitimately concerned with about Brady's performance so far this season is the number of fumbles he's had this year. Some of them seemed to be the result of unnecessary risk, or ball he would have held onto in the past. The rest I'm going to chalk it up to a receiving corps so unsettled they had to trade for loose cannon Josh Gordon and a running game so unsettled we had featured back Coradelle Patterson.

I respond to this part of your post not to disagree with it, or to defend Brady, but to discuss a pet peeve of mine which runs along these lines...

  1. QB throws the ball away when first receiver is open = QB SHOULD HAVE LOOKED FOR AN OPEN MAN!
  2. QB doesn't throw to the #4 man in a route's hierarchy, regardless of 'why' = QB HAD A MAN OPEN AND BLEW IT!
  3. QB takes sack while in pocket and unable to just throw it away because of pressure location = QB HAS TO GET RID OF BALL!
  4. QB (especially elite QBs) in high pressure, must-score type situation throws ball away = QB HAS TO MOVE IN POCKET OR SCRAMBLE TO GIVE RECEIVERS A CHANCE TO GET OPEN!
  5. QB (especially elite QBs) in high pressure, must-score type situation extends play than gets hit for sack/fumble = QB CAN'T TAKE HIT THERE, HAS TO LIVE TO PLAY THE NEXT DOWN!

In short, people's relatively recent obsession with fantasy football and analytics has meant that every QB play has become very similar to the "should have run/should have passed/should have called deep/short pass" Kobayashi Maru test that we give to offensive coordinators on every single play they call.
 

Maho Hiyajo

Practice Squad Player
I think it has more to do with the fact that he had virtually no receivers in the first few weeks other than James White. Gronk is terrific, but even he's been banged up. Factor in receivers playing out of their "natural" roles (i.e Dorsett in the starting lineup, Hogan as a #2) and it's hard to acclimate to.

Tom's completion % in 2013 was 60.5, his lowest since 2003. We had a bunch of rookies that year plus Edelman. Gronk wasn't even there until mid-season (and went out for the year anyway). Very similar scenario although our o-line was really shaky too.
 

PatriotsReign

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That is an estimate based on 'he's older so he must drop off' isn't it? An expectation/estimate versus a fact?
There's primarily two things Brady needs to remain at a high level:
1.the fire to make everything else a distant second in order to zealously and very time consuming-ly practice & re-practice his craft (that pure fire to want to win no matter the physical, mental, time toll). To be a top performer in the NFL, when 5 o'clock rolls around it isn't Miller Time. It's mind and body training and retraining almost 24/7/300 (65 days off :)). I suspect that retirement for players -- besides injury/bodily wear that just can't heal to a sufficient degree -- is sometimes that bottom line feeling/decision of "I no longer want to put in the colossal, all time consuming, insane amount of effort another year".
2. a relatively healthy and functioning mind and body.


-Is there reason to believe Brady does not have 1? Hey, every off season it wouldn't surprise me if he decides he no longer has that require extreme fire. But it certainly seems like playing and winning still rages, no?
-Is there reason to believe his ankles-knees, his hands-elbows-shoulders, his mind isn't in good working order? IMHO being the pure pocket passer he is has been extremely helpful to not only keep him under center almost without fail, but to keep his body from accumulating the kind of wear that makes recoup time longer and ultimately too long (when the body can't recoup fast enough during the season -- definitely a big benefit of being young is the rapid recoup time -- the decision to hang it up is made for you).

Yes, Brady may not be precisely the same QB as last year, however, it's just as likely the difference is negligible instead of this proverbial cliff that some in the media can't wait to proclaim. Brady having an 'off game' is not new to 2018, 2017, 2012 or 2006.
Say that again...:p
 

Coolade2

Third String But Playing on Special Teams
Aside from a glaring curriosity... This discussion is kinda irrelevant since the QB position is what it is and it never is perfect so criticism is valid yet...um so what..?

The more relevant discussion was squashed with jimmyG trade and injury.. cuz that question of who else you gonna have playing that is actually better.? When you frame that possibility you compare all these aspects with the next guy who might make your TEAM better.

Right now what makes the team better is practice, game planning, play calling and execution of such against the next opponent. In other words, make the QB job easier by blocking, tack!ing, doing their jobs at 100% effect.
 

scott99

Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract
Still on pace for 4400 yards and 32 TDS. I suspect the INT rate will go down in the 2nd half of the season as Gronk gets healthier (hopefully) and Gordon get even more acclimated to the offense (picked it up pretty damned fast already and Brady seems to trust him). Also, the Pats seem to get better as the season goes on, their record from November & December over the years is insane. Though they have 4 tough games left, Green Bay, Tennessee, Minnesota & Pittsburgh. The rest vs the Jets (2x), Miami & Buffalo. Only Minnesota has an above average defense. Brady might put up even better numbers in the 2nd half of the season.

I really think the haters are looking for ANY evidence of a decline by Brady. His level of excellence has been so high, that sheer greatness, instead of mythical greatness, may seem like a decline (to haters). The decline they all expect, like what happened to Peyton Manning, seems a few seasons away. He’s still a great QB, no other QB I’d want in crunch time.
 
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