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A game we will look back on as key to Brady's legacy

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Sep 12th

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BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
Yes, I know he's no longer the QB here, but I just had this thought today.

Let's rewind to 2018. The AFCCG with the KC @ NE. The Pats barely manage to pull out a win on a game that was arguably decided by a coin flip. I don't think anyone believes the way Mahomes was playing at that point and the kind of player that he is, that he wouldn't have had a good chance to score a game winning TD.

Let's imagine just for a second in another universe that KC won the flip. I would bet money KC would have done what they were doing the last 3 drives and would have beaten our D, gone down and scored a TD. What happens in the super bowl? KC almost certainly wins. The Rams didn't come ready to play and the moment was too big for them. They would have probably ended up scoring more than 3 points, but I think many of us find it hard to imagine them beating a team like KC that day if they played anything close to their potential. Hell, Brady was subpar and the Pats still won by 10 points and never weren't in control.

So in this new universe the next year unfolds just as it did. The Pats undermanned offense being stopped in the WC and KC beating SF. Take one championship off the board for Brady and add one more to Mahomes.

Instead of the score being Brady 6 to Mahomes 1, Brady has 5 and a very young Mahomes has 2 in his first 2 years starting. Brady is clearly still the GOAT, but suddenly a 25 year old QB with a lot of football ahead of him is off to a great start with a head to head win in the AFCCG over Brady to boot.

It would still be a mountain to climb, but would you count out Mahomes ability to get 1, 2 or even 3 more in his career? Particularly with the lack of top end QBs to get in his way. Right now the only guys who will challenge him long term from the QB spot are Wilson and Lamar (who it wouldn't surprise me if he has a shorter career). Watson is good but more in the Rivers tier of good, not great. I think as we look back at their careers this game will be the one that secures Brady's spot firmly ahead of Mahomes. It took one from Mahomes and gave it to Brady, as well as gave him a key head to head win. Of course I could be wrong and Mahomes doesn't even make the top 10 all time list, but I'd be surprised if he wins less than 3 in his career at this point.
 
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Patsfanin Philly

Pro Bowl Player
And if Pete Carroll doesn't get cute and hands off to Lynch instead of passing, Wilson could have 2 to Brady's 5 instead of 6.... Things change and we'll see how KC can build now that the cap space is smaller with his new contract....
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
Bradys legacy was delivered in full after 49. The rest is just icing on the cake...

so now... New England & Brady, we're on a break... Maybe save all the laudatory Brady posts til after we get back together so we have something positive to talk about? It will be a long 5 years between his 1 day contract and his enshrinement in Canton...
 
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Simpelton

In the Starting Line-Up
And if Pete Carroll doesn't get cute and hands off to Lynch instead of passing, Wilson could have 2 to Brady's 5 instead of 6.... Things change and we'll see how KC can build now that the cap space is smaller with his new contract....
When it comes right down to it, it was Wilson's mediocre execution of the pass play that sunk the Seahawks, more than the playcall itself.

I still think that that play went down the way it did because it wasn't disguised at all, because Wilson telegraphed the hell out of his throw, and because the throw itself was off target.

If he'd, say, passed off the play action, that's almost definitely a TD. If he hits Lockette on the left shoulder instead of putting the ball 2 feet ahead of him, that's almost definitely a TD. If there is any disguise at all so that Browner and Butler don't read the play like a book, that's also almost definitely a TD.

Fact of the matter in my mind is that Carroll gets too much hate for that play, and Wilson gets too little. It was an average playcall, poorly executed.

You might even say the Seahawks failed as a complete team. Carroll outguessed itself, the OC set up a predictable formation, the Seahawks were sloppy pre-snap which took precious seconds off the clock, Wilson's throw was off target, Kearse didn't get off the line to set the pick, and Lockette got knocked off the ball by a smaller man. And let's not forget that the unstoppable Marshawn Lynch was stopped on the previous play.
 

TheRainMaker

I'm getting my res at Dorsia
PatsFans.com Supporter
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Look for Brady to win #7 this year.

TB over KC.
 

Patsgofor4

In the Starting Line-Up
Bradys legacy was delivered in full after 49. The rest is just icing on the cake...

so now... New England & Brady, we're on a break... Maybe save all the laudatory Brady posts til after we get back together so we have something positive to talk about? It will be a long 5 years between his 1 day contract and his enshrinement in Canton...

You must be new here. :evil:

(I agree, but not gonna happen)
 

Soliel

In the Starting Line-Up
The coin flip angle is no different than any other part of the game. A field goal, a busted or good punt return, receptions etc. every time the ball is put in play is a coin flip. We’re we lucky to win that? Yep! No illusions here. The only teams you don’t need luck to beat are either coached by pagano or from Ohio
 

SammyBlueCat

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
The Patriots scouted the Seahawks well. In the previous SB vs the Broncos, the Seahawks picked up several first downs with slants.
 

Brewskies

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
Yes, I know he's no longer the QB here, but I just had this thought today.

Let's rewind to 2018. The AFCCG with the KC @ NE. The Pats barely manage to pull out a win on a game that was arguably decided by a coin flip. I don't think anyone believe the way Mahomes was playing at that point and the kind of player that he is, that he wouldn't have had a good choice to score a game winning TD.

Let's imagine just for a second in another universe that KC won the flip. I would bet money KC would have did what they were doing the last 3 drives and would have beaten our D, gone down and scored a TD. What happens in the super bowl. KC almost certainly wins. The Rams didn't come ready to play and the moment was too big for them. They would have probably ended up scoring more than 3 points, but i think many of us find it hard to imagine them beating a team like KC that day if they play anything close to their potential. Hell, Brady was subpar and the Pats still won by 10 points and never really were not in control.

So in this new universe the next year unfolds just as it did. The Pats undermanned offense being stopped in the WC and KC beating SF. Take one championship off the board for Brady and add one more to Mahomes.

Instead of the score being Brady 6 to Mahomes 1, Brady has 5 and a very young Mahomes has 2 in the first 2 years starting. Brady is clearly still the GOAT, but suddenly a 25 year old QB with a lot of football ahead of him is off to a great start with a head to head win in the AFCCG over Brady to boot.

It would still be a mountain to climb, but would you count out Mahomes ability to get 1, 2 or even 3 more in his career? Particularly with the lack of top end QBs to get in his way. Right now the only guys who will challenge him long term from the QB spot are Wilson and Lamar (who it wouldn't surprise me if he has a shorter career). Watson is good but more in the Rivers tier of good, not great. I think as we look back at their careers this game will be the one that secures Brady's spot firmly ahead of Mahomes. It took one from Mahomes and gave it to Brady, as well as gave him a key head to head win. I think 15 years from now when we look back we will see this as the game that separates Brady and Mahomes. Of course I could be wrong and Mahomes doesn't even make the top 10 all time list, but i'd be surprised if he wins less than 3 in his career at this point.



OH, but for the flip of a coin.
 

Pape

In the Starting Line-Up
(I agree, but not gonna happen)
i know it won't ... guys cant help but wax poetic about the pretty one that got away ...

just like chiefs fans will talk themselves into thinking mahomie has two already cuz they should have won the coin toss...
 

TommyBrady12

Hall of Fame Poster
2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Mahomes had the ball at our 20 yard line with the clock stopped at 16 seconds in the 4th quarter...all he needed was a TD and he heads to the SB. He failed to get it done.
 
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Le Numéro Douze

In the Starting Line-Up
The coin flip angle is no different than any other part of the game. A field goal, a busted or good punt return, receptions etc. every time the ball is put in play is a coin flip. We’re we lucky to win that? Yep! No illusions here. The only teams you don’t need luck to beat are either coached by pagano or from Ohio

Exactly.

If we wanna play the what if game:

- What if the refs call Eli down as they should have? What if Rodney breaks up the helmet catch? What if Samuel makes the INT? Brady is 4 and 0 and completes the perfect season.

- What if Welker makes that catch? Game over, Brady is 5 and 0.

- What if the refs are not incompetent twits and call back these two TD passes as they should have? Brady is 8 and 0.

And I could do the same for every SB we won. It is a game of inches. What if the Tuck Rule play is ruled a fumble? What if Butler does not make the pick? What if AV misses those kicks? Yeah, game of inches.
 

Le Numéro Douze

In the Starting Line-Up
that was in sb46, wasn't it? Asante needed to make that int or Harrison needed to make that pass break up in 42 first...

Well... yeah! Which is why I mentioned them first.

Point being Brady is 5 or 6 plays away from being 9 and 0... or 0 and 9 (realistically 2 and 7, we were not losing Eagles 1 and Rams 2).
 

BobDigital

Pro Bowl Player
i know it won't ... guys cant help but wax poetic about the pretty one that got away ...

just like chiefs fans will talk themselves into thinking mahomie has two already cuz they should have won the coin toss...

Well I'm clearly not a Mahomes fan. I like watching great players though and only a fool would deny he is a great player. A generational one I think. Just like Brady is a generational one. Just like Montana is a generational one. Of course Mahomes being on that level remains to be seen, but right now he is giving a strong indication he might be.

As for acting as if Mahomes already has two, I never said that. What I did was a thought experiment to illustrate how easily we could be looking at things differently. Mahomes didn't win and that is that. Maybe it did come down to a coin flip, in reality we don't know. It very possible even if KC wins Mahomes wouldn't have done anything with the ball or turned it over. I don't think he would have but it's a possibility, we only know of the reality of what Brady did with it.

As for the narrative that Mahomes should have 2 that just isn't true. Mahomes had every chance to play better and win that game. An awful first half and other missed chances that were in his control are all on him. He had the ability to win. If he played better he would have. He didn't so he lost. Theory is interesting, but that's the reality. He only has one win. He had the chance to get 2. He had sixty minutes to get ahead of the Pats and failed to do so. That's on him and his team. Luck is part of the game, Brady has had good and bad luck just as Mahomes has had good and bad luck. The coin flip is just an iconic example of that luck. If you play better you don't leave things up to luck as much. In the end Mahomes has no one to blame but himself for not being able to win that game.

I was simply pointing out how it might have changed everything about their pecking order, but it is what it is. Mahomes was in his prime and let a 41 year old Brady beat take it from him.
 
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