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A game we will look back on as key to Brady's legacy

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Sep 12th

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jimnance

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Yes, I know he's no longer the QB here, but I just had this thought today.

Let's rewind to 2018. The AFCCG with the KC @ NE. The Pats barely manage to pull out a win on a game that was arguably decided by a coin flip. I don't think anyone believes the way Mahomes was playing at that point and the kind of player that he is, that he wouldn't have had a good chance to score a game winning TD.

Let's imagine just for a second in another universe that KC won the flip. I would bet money KC would have done what they were doing the last 3 drives and would have beaten our D, gone down and scored a TD. What happens in the super bowl? KC almost certainly wins. The Rams didn't come ready to play and the moment was too big for them. They would have probably ended up scoring more than 3 points, but I think many of us find it hard to imagine them beating a team like KC that day if they played anything close to their potential. Hell, Brady was subpar and the Pats still won by 10 points and never weren't in control.

So in this new universe the next year unfolds just as it did. The Pats undermanned offense being stopped in the WC and KC beating SF. Take one championship off the board for Brady and add one more to Mahomes.

Instead of the score being Brady 6 to Mahomes 1, Brady has 5 and a very young Mahomes has 2 in his first 2 years starting. Brady is clearly still the GOAT, but suddenly a 25 year old QB with a lot of football ahead of him is off to a great start with a head to head win in the AFCCG over Brady to boot.

It would still be a mountain to climb, but would you count out Mahomes ability to get 1, 2 or even 3 more in his career? Particularly with the lack of top end QBs to get in his way. Right now the only guys who will challenge him long term from the QB spot are Wilson and Lamar (who it wouldn't surprise me if he has a shorter career). Watson is good but more in the Rivers tier of good, not great. I think as we look back at their careers this game will be the one that secures Brady's spot firmly ahead of Mahomes. It took one from Mahomes and gave it to Brady, as well as gave him a key head to head win. Of course I could be wrong and Mahomes doesn't even make the top 10 all time list, but I'd be surprised if he wins less than 3 in his career at this point.

Bob, Bob, Bob.... Not one of your better efforts. What a ridiculous post.
You just wanna rewrite history?
The Patriots and Brady beat the Chiefs
and Mahomes. Period.
 

brdmaverick

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Winning SB is hard. Some great QB have one or none. Mahomes will be fortunate to win 3. A lot has to go right.

right, what are the odds that Rodgers, brees, and Payton Manning would win less than 3? None of them did. Even when you have the best team things can easily fall off the track.

Take Mahomes.....the 49ers we’re close to preventing him from his first. Who is to say the ravens or Titans won’t get in the way of the second?
 

sb1

Pro Bowl Player
right, what are the odds that Rodgers, brees, and Payton Manning would win less than 3? None of them did. Even when you have the best team things can easily fall off the track.

Take Mahomes.....the 49ers we’re close to preventing him from his first. Who is to say the ravens or Titans won’t get in the way of the second?

Who’s to say we won’t?:)
 

cscirpoli

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
When it comes right down to it, it was Wilson's mediocre execution of the pass play that sunk the Seahawks, more than the playcall itself.

I still think that that play went down the way it did because it wasn't disguised at all, because Wilson telegraphed the hell out of his throw, and because the throw itself was off target.

If he'd, say, passed off the play action, that's almost definitely a TD. If he hits Lockette on the left shoulder instead of putting the ball 2 feet ahead of him, that's almost definitely a TD. If there is any disguise at all so that Browner and Butler don't read the play like a book, that's also almost definitely a TD.

Fact of the matter in my mind is that Carroll gets too much hate for that play, and Wilson gets too little. It was an average playcall, poorly executed.

You might even say the Seahawks failed as a complete team. Carroll outguessed itself, the OC set up a predictable formation, the Seahawks were sloppy pre-snap which took precious seconds off the clock, Wilson's throw was off target, Kearse didn't get off the line to set the pick, and Lockette got knocked off the ball by a smaller man. And let's not forget that the unstoppable Marshawn Lynch was stopped on the previous play.

I think he put the ball right where he meant to. It would be stupid to thrown the ball behind the receiver to his left shoulder. He would have had to potentially slow down, turn to catch the ball and get tackled before getting into the endzone. He was throwing to where his receiver would be. Malcolm just got there faster and I still don't know how he held onto that ball after that collision. The play was executed exactly as it should have been, the Patriots just sniffed it out and executed on Defense better than the Seahawks did on O.
 

cscirpoli

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Yes, I know he's no longer the QB here, but I just had this thought today.

Let's rewind to 2018. The AFCCG with the KC @ NE. The Pats barely manage to pull out a win on a game that was arguably decided by a coin flip. I don't think anyone believes the way Mahomes was playing at that point and the kind of player that he is, that he wouldn't have had a good chance to score a game winning TD.

Let's imagine just for a second in another universe that KC won the flip. I would bet money KC would have done what they were doing the last 3 drives and would have beaten our D, gone down and scored a TD. What happens in the super bowl? KC almost certainly wins. The Rams didn't come ready to play and the moment was too big for them. They would have probably ended up scoring more than 3 points, but I think many of us find it hard to imagine them beating a team like KC that day if they played anything close to their potential. Hell, Brady was subpar and the Pats still won by 10 points and never weren't in control.

So in this new universe the next year unfolds just as it did. The Pats undermanned offense being stopped in the WC and KC beating SF. Take one championship off the board for Brady and add one more to Mahomes.

Instead of the score being Brady 6 to Mahomes 1, Brady has 5 and a very young Mahomes has 2 in his first 2 years starting. Brady is clearly still the GOAT, but suddenly a 25 year old QB with a lot of football ahead of him is off to a great start with a head to head win in the AFCCG over Brady to boot.

It would still be a mountain to climb, but would you count out Mahomes ability to get 1, 2 or even 3 more in his career? Particularly with the lack of top end QBs to get in his way. Right now the only guys who will challenge him long term from the QB spot are Wilson and Lamar (who it wouldn't surprise me if he has a shorter career). Watson is good but more in the Rivers tier of good, not great. I think as we look back at their careers this game will be the one that secures Brady's spot firmly ahead of Mahomes. It took one from Mahomes and gave it to Brady, as well as gave him a key head to head win. Of course I could be wrong and Mahomes doesn't even make the top 10 all time list, but I'd be surprised if he wins less than 3 in his career at this point.

Let's rewind to last year where the Refs handed the Chiefs the regular season game agains the Pats. Even that underwhelming squad almost got it done against KC, if the refs hadn't screwed up 4 calls almost in a row, causing BB to burn his challenges and then the egregious call calling back that incredible TD Harry fought for. The Chiefs still needed the refs to throw the game to pull out the win.
 

XLIX

Pro Bowl Player
Bob, Bob, Bob.... Not one of your better efforts. What a ridiculous post.
You just wanna rewrite history?
The Patriots and Brady beat the Chiefs
and Mahomes. Period.
+1

Once somebody in a debate has to rewrite history, they've lost the argument.
 

libra957

2nd Team Getting Their First Start
Exactly.

If we wanna play the what if game:

- What if the refs call Eli down as they should have? What if Rodney breaks up the helmet catch? What if Samuel makes the INT? Brady is 4 and 0 and completes the perfect season.

- What if Welker makes that catch? Game over, Brady is 5 and 0.

- What if the refs are not incompetent twits and call back these two TD passes as they should have? Brady is 8 and 0.

And I could do the same for every SB we won. It is a game of inches. What if the Tuck Rule play is ruled a fumble? What if Butler does not make the pick? What if AV misses those kicks? Yeah, game of inches.
In my mind the patriots should have at least 12 rings under Brady. We have had very few squads that weren't good enough to win it all.
 

PatsFanSince74

PatsFans.com Supporter
PatsFans.com Supporter
When it comes right down to it, it was Wilson's mediocre execution of the pass play that sunk the Seahawks, more than the playcall itself.

I still think that that play went down the way it did because it wasn't disguised at all, because Wilson telegraphed the hell out of his throw, and because the throw itself was off target.

If he'd, say, passed off the play action, that's almost definitely a TD. If he hits Lockette on the left shoulder instead of putting the ball 2 feet ahead of him, that's almost definitely a TD. If there is any disguise at all so that Browner and Butler don't read the play like a book, that's also almost definitely a TD.

Fact of the matter in my mind is that Carroll gets too much hate for that play, and Wilson gets too little. It was an average playcall, poorly executed.

You might even say the Seahawks failed as a complete team. Carroll outguessed itself, the OC set up a predictable formation, the Seahawks were sloppy pre-snap which took precious seconds off the clock, Wilson's throw was off target, Kearse didn't get off the line to set the pick, and Lockette got knocked off the ball by a smaller man. And let's not forget that the unstoppable Marshawn Lynch was stopped on the previous play.
Wilson actually takes a quick look over at Lockette during the snap count. Browner and Butler knew what was coming. Browner runs right into Kearse to break up the pick. Butler runs to a spot not to Lockette...the only spot he has a chance to make a play...if Wilson puts the ball on Lockette's body, Malcolm has no play, but the ball is where he expects it to be. The rest is history.
 

The Brandon Five

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2020 Weekly NFL Picks Winner
Yes, I know he's no longer the QB here, but I just had this thought today.

Let's rewind to 2018. The AFCCG with the KC @ NE. The Pats barely manage to pull out a win on a game that was arguably decided by a coin flip. I don't think anyone believes the way Mahomes was playing at that point and the kind of player that he is, that he wouldn't have had a good chance to score a game winning TD.

Let's imagine just for a second in another universe that KC won the flip. I would bet money KC would have done what they were doing the last 3 drives and would have beaten our D, gone down and scored a TD. What happens in the super bowl? KC almost certainly wins. The Rams didn't come ready to play and the moment was too big for them. They would have probably ended up scoring more than 3 points, but I think many of us find it hard to imagine them beating a team like KC that day if they played anything close to their potential. Hell, Brady was subpar and the Pats still won by 10 points and never weren't in control.

So in this new universe the next year unfolds just as it did. The Pats undermanned offense being stopped in the WC and KC beating SF. Take one championship off the board for Brady and add one more to Mahomes.

Instead of the score being Brady 6 to Mahomes 1, Brady has 5 and a very young Mahomes has 2 in his first 2 years starting. Brady is clearly still the GOAT, but suddenly a 25 year old QB with a lot of football ahead of him is off to a great start with a head to head win in the AFCCG over Brady to boot.

It would still be a mountain to climb, but would you count out Mahomes ability to get 1, 2 or even 3 more in his career? Particularly with the lack of top end QBs to get in his way. Right now the only guys who will challenge him long term from the QB spot are Wilson and Lamar (who it wouldn't surprise me if he has a shorter career). Watson is good but more in the Rivers tier of good, not great. I think as we look back at their careers this game will be the one that secures Brady's spot firmly ahead of Mahomes. It took one from Mahomes and gave it to Brady, as well as gave him a key head to head win. Of course I could be wrong and Mahomes doesn't even make the top 10 all time list, but I'd be surprised if he wins less than 3 in his career at this point.

Well, yeah, if they continued to officiate the way they were in that second half it was likely the Chiefs would score if they got the ball. :evil:
 

Nehalem

In the Starting Line-Up
right, what are the odds that Rodgers, brees, and Payton Manning would win less than 3? None of them did. Even when you have the best team things can easily fall off the track.

Take Mahomes.....the 49ers we’re close to preventing him from his first. Who is to say the ravens or Titans won’t get in the way of the second?

They really only have 2 legit rings combined :rofl:
 
2014 SB. I don't think people understand how important that SB really was and is to Brady's legacy.

You guys have just been spoiled. I’m a Falcons fan...I know how tough one SB is to get. Brady’s legacy was made with his 2nd SB win. Few ever get to two, let alone win 2. By the time he faced Seattle he had already been to 5 SB’s and was basically chasing himself.
 

PatsBoy12

Pro Bowl Player
You guys have just been spoiled. I’m a Falcons fan...I know how tough one SB is to get. Brady’s legacy was made with his 2nd SB win. Few ever get to two, let alone win 2. By the time he faced Seattle he had already been to 5 SB’s and was basically chasing himself.
We're talking about his legacy as the GOAT. That wasn't secured after his second SB win.
 

sean10mm

Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job
Super Bowl 49 put him in the GOAT discussion by entering the 4 ring club with Montana (& Bradshaw lol)

Super Bowl 51 is what put Brady on an entirely different echelon from everyone else in history, not just in ring count but by doing it with an unprecedented comeback in the first OT win in Super Bowl history.

SB53 was just making the rubble bounce.
 
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