A Frustrating Observation On N'Keal Harry

[Deus Irae]

What are you implying?

11 years have come and gone since Hernandes and Gronk. Thats a long time...

I could even envision a scenario where you meant - a team so hang up on their once-great innovation, cant really see the reality of their times and wont adjust - doesnt seem far fatched, honestly

Implying? I'll come out and make it plain:


People who think the Patriots don't know how to use TEs have no idea what the hell they're talking about.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

"The team that basically revolutionized the TE passing game in the 2010s doesn't know how to use TEs"


- Far too many posters here

The OC that revolutionized 2TEs is Billy O'Brien with BB, it's bringing back the Detroit offense. The current OC has never had a clue about 2 tight ends. Even with Bennett here it was a 1 TE offense when Gronk went out, or 2 TEs where the current OC only knows how to use a Dwayne Allen TE as a blocker, or use an Onwenu as a 6th lineman. Zero clue how to use 2 pass catching tight ends (hello play action !!). The current OC thought a full season with Izzo and LaCosse was OK, same thing in St Louis'11 and Denver'10, always the worst TE production in the league.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Why do you think that tho? Was there any bad training reports on him of sorts?

Otherwise, we are in agreement

Nope. No bad reports. This is all about football. I know he had a bad case of the drops in TC but whatever.

I am embracing the theory that because he spent a number of years in the West Coast offense he is having a very, very hard time picking up the nuances of playing TE the E/P offense.

He has the talent. That is no doubt about that.

When I say cultural I imply more how he may not be a fit football IQ wise in terms of what the NEP look for. Doesn't mean hes dumb. Just means he is having a hard time applying E/P concepts to what he needs to do on the field when he sees the defense/defender alignment and being on the same page with what Mac sees.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Implying? I'll come out and make it plain:

You have no clue of history. Who was the OC when Gronk and Hernandez were here? Not the current OC

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Nope. No bad reports. This is all about football. I know he had a bad case of the drops in TC but whatever.

I am embracing the theory that because he spent a number of years in the West Coast offense he is having a very, very hard time picking up the nuances of playing TE the E/P offense.

He has the talent. That is no doubt about that.

When I say cultural I imply more how he may not be a fit football IQ wise in terms of what the NEP look for. Doesn't mean hes dumb. Just means he is having a hard time applying E/P concepts to what he needs to do on the field when he sees the defense/defender alignment and being on the same page with what Mac sees.

Again terrible post.

Are you watching the games? Nope. Jonnu is not a blocking tight end nor is he an outside wide receiver. But that's what he's being asked to do in this offense.

 

[masterbouncer]

"The team that basically revolutionized the TE passing game in the 2010s doesn't know how to use TEs"


- Far too many posters here

It was BOB who was the OC at that time in 2010, McD joined in 2012 after Gronk and AH had their best season in 2011, even Gronk had not had more TD or Yards after 2011 and Gronk might be the best TE ever. It just might have to do something with how McD likes to call plays, perhaps he does not need 2 TEs or cannot call proper plays to attack with 2 TEs in the RZ but why would you pay that money in the FA to get 2 of them?

 

[Bill Lee]

I don’t think so. Bill cut Dom Easley, a 2014 first round pick, after two years.

Yet after year 2, Harry was coming off an injury and requested a trade so was easy to cut, yet he is still here.

We can rationalize this by saying the coaching staff saw a role for him that no one else on the roster could fill and no other talent available to them this off season was better, yet we can also say if that role included catching the ball they seem to have misjudged his abilities.

You can't just throw every under-performing player off the team, you gotta find an equal or better replacement. This involves both evaluating what other talent is out there that you can sign, and evaluating what you can expect from the current player. They seemed to expect replacement level play or better from Harry. I don't think he has achieved that, so I think they either evaluated him incorrectly, or just could not get anyone to fill the role. There always is the suggestion that his high draft position gave him an automatic pass, but I really doubt anyone on the Pats gets a free pass.

 

[archstanton543]

Yet after year 2, Harry was coming off an injury and requested a trade so was easy to cut, yet he is still here.

We can rationalize this by saying the coaching staff saw a role for him that no one else on the roster could fill and no other talent available to them this off season was better, yet we can also say if that role included catching the ball they seem to have misjudged his abilities.

You can't just throw every under-performing player off the team, you gotta find an equal or better replacement. This involves both evaluating what other talent is out there that you can sign, and evaluating what you can expect from the current player. They seemed to expect replacement level play or better from Harry. I don't think he has achieved that, so I think they either evaluated him incorrectly, or just could not get anyone to fill the role. There always is the suggestion that his high draft position gave him an automatic pass, but I really doubt anyone on the Pats gets a free pass.

I think it will be pretty easy to replace Harry's production. 1-2 catches a game for 25 yards.

 

[‘Mondre]

At the end of it all, I think Harry might end up as the biggest bust in BBs history

Every other guy got canned at earliest sign of not fitting in, but not Harry - it comes with this more ~mellow BB, I guess

When I heard he asked for a trade request, I was a shocked, the audacity of a rookie. I was even more in shock when we kept a disgruntled, entitled, lethargic player on the team

Skip to december. Crunch time, we had to be in playoff mode. We put the ball in this bums hands.

NOT ONCE. NO. After him having, ALONE AND BY HIMSELF, wasted a catch that I would make SINGLE HANDED. We go at him IMMEDIATELY. HEY CONGRATS FOR BEING TRUSTED - AND THANK YOU FOR PUTTING MINIMAL EFFORT IN IT.

I am still pissed. The last time i was this pissed was on the Folk's 56 yarders. I cant let go. Like that kick, at the moment,My gut-feeling went all the way to "we are not winning the game." Even if we still had basically the whole game to play, in Harry's case. Nothing made that sentiment go away.

I would cut him after the game, hands down. At this time, I wanna see Wilkerson on the field,

Aaron Dobson

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Aaron Dobson

3rd round pick. NKeal Harry and Chad Jackson were worse picks. All 3 by the way picked with McD as OC. Same guy who moved up to take Tim Tebow in the 1st round.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Yet after year 2, Harry was coming off an injury and requested a trade so was easy to cut, yet he is still here.

We can rationalize this by saying the coaching staff saw a role for him that no one else on the roster could fill and no other talent available to them this off season was better, yet we can also say if that role included catching the ball they seem to have misjudged his abilities.

You can't just throw every under-performing player off the team, you gotta find an equal or better replacement. This involves both evaluating what other talent is out there that you can sign, and evaluating what you can expect from the current player. They seemed to expect replacement level play or better from Harry. I don't think he has achieved that, so I think they either evaluated him incorrectly, or just could not get anyone to fill the role. There always is the suggestion that his high draft position gave him an automatic pass, but I really doubt anyone on the Pats gets a free pass.

Or certain idiots keep giving NKeal chances to not look bad like the current OC. Same thing happened with crappy Laurence Maroney, who the same OC wasted a pick trading to get him to Denver (and continued to suck)

 

[Bill Lee]

I think it will be pretty easy to replace Harry's production. 1-2 catches a game for 25 yards.

Agree, yet he was on the field for 95% of the plays against BUF, so it's about more than his production. The coaching staff must think he adds value in pass protection and/or down field blocking, has positive impact on plays he is not being targeted.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Agree, yet he was on the field for 95% of the plays against BUF, so it's about more than his production. The coaching staff must think he adds value in pass protection and/or down field blocking, has positive impact on plays he is not being targeted.

Absolutely criminal. Fire the OC.

.

 

[Deus Irae]

It was BOB who was the OC at that time in 2010, McD joined in 2012 after Gronk and AH had their best season in 2011, even Gronk had not had more TD or Yards after 2011 and Gronk might be the best TE ever. It just might have to do something with how McD likes to call plays, perhaps he does not need 2 TEs or cannot call proper plays to attack with 2 TEs in the RZ but why would you pay that money in the FA to get 2 of them?

You figure only O'Brien could call the plays that worked for TEs, and he took them all with him when he left?

You figure that McDaniels couldn't call the TE game in 2016, in the games where both Bennett and Gronk played?


C'mon now.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

You figure

C'mon this is too easy. McD has a long, multiple-teams record of not giving a sh-t about the TE position at all. Guy is obsessed with spread shotgun. He thought a full season with Izzo and LaCosse was fine. St Louis 2011 had the worst TE production in the league. New England 2020 had the worst TE production in the league. Denver 2009 and Denver 2010 had the worst TE production in the league. He only went with Gronk because he had no choice, Gronk is a freak HOF player who was elite in the red zone. McD does not like using 2 TEs and when he does it's to use the 2nd TE as a blocker. At zero point has he ever successfully deployed 2 TEs for an entire season. Even with Bennett here, Gronk was hurt for periods.

 

[JayNM]

Aaron Dobson

Man, not even close, sorry

Draft pick aside, Dobson gave us SOME yardage. But i think he got close to 500 yards receiving in one year

In 3 years, even with a lot design plays to get him the ball, he does not have 500 yards ALL AROUND. Plus, Dobson never really crushed my heart like did against the Bills and that stupid, dumb-ass kick off return earlier. And thats just 2 abhorrent plays, there are more. Dobson didnt do this crap, he dropped balls, the poor thing

id rather have 5 Dobsons on my WR corps than 1 Harrym **** it

`*All stats are from my head, as i wont bother checking that. Could be wrong

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Screens, hand-offs, shovel passes, fades. PA seems to make up most of the calls. No question the guy has crazy talent.

I think all of the above, including a lot of what made Bolden look good, Jonnu can also do in this Pats offense. He doesn't need to play outside WR. Just give Jonnu what he's elite at: play action, screens, hand-offs, shovel-passes, short quick throws where he can gain a ton of yards after catch. He's not Dwayne Allen.

 

[Hawaiianpatsfan2]

And yet Bourne only played 30 snaps, half what NKeal played. Idiotic by the oc

.

Valid question. Who truly knows. I’ve seen weirder things happen though. Just maybe bill looked at the season and said, **** home field advantage, we’ve sucked there all season anyway.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Valid question. Who truly knows. I’ve seen weirder things happen though. Just maybe bill looked at the season and said, **** home field advantage, we’ve sucked there all season anyway.

Another sad thing. When's the last time the Pats were this bad at home? Pre-BB I think. Maybe even pre-Parcells.

 

[Hawaiianpatsfan2]

Also worth noting, Smith didn’t exactly light up the league, ever, but especially so in his first two years. Being on the titans.. well, that could be due to many issues, but it’s not to far fetched to think he’s a slow learner. We should all just give him till next season before we really get on him and call him a bust singing.