A Frustrating Observation On N'Keal Harry

[JayNM]

Harry stands 6 - 4 225 lbs

Lots of TEs are the same height and 250 lbs. Harrys lot in life is not as an NFL WR unless he is blocking all game.

He can barely move on the field, you put 25 pounds of anything in that turnstile, you've got a fat-ass, dead-ass cone on the field who cant even consistently win 50/50 ball (his """""""""""""""""""""strength""""""""""""""""""""""""" i heard).

Get a tall, skinny-af lineman in college, teach him how to high-point grab, bum, immediatly better than Haryy

 

[JayNM]

I don't blame him as he's being used as a blocking TE2 just playing what Dwayne Allen did here. The guy has talent, with a different oc he put up 9 TDs last year and top5 in the league in yards after the catch

While I agree that Jonnu is being mis-used, now its also not the time to re-invent the whell. Henry is a great End-Zone threat, Jonnu can become one

We need to have this discussion next year

 

[DropKickFlutie]

While I agree that Jonnu is being mis-used, now its also not the time to re-invent the whell. Henry is a great End-Zone threat, Jonnu can become one

We need to have this discussion next year

I'm not saying take any of Hunter's snaps away, keep doing all that with Henry . The red zone offense isn't good beyond Henry and Harris. It's not a high ranking red zone offense. So add in more plays for Jonnu. Jonnu should be playing more than the 25 snaps per game he gets being a glorified blocker. It's not 1 or the other on tight ends, that's how this oc thinks and has no clue how to use 2 good catching tight ends.

When Agholor comes back their red zone offense should still be 12 personnel where Meyers and Bourne are the wideouts, they are quick off the line. Agholor's straightline speed doesn't do anything in the red zone

 

[RobertWeathers]

While I agree that Jonnu is being mis-used, now its also not the time to re-invent the whell. Henry is a great End-Zone threat, Jonnu can become one

We need to have this discussion next year

How is Smith being mis-used? Josh is clearly limited in how he can use Smith because I'm not sure what others are seeing but to me he is simply not confident in what he is doing out there. He fights the ball when it's thrown to him, he makes dumb mistakes blocking and his route-running is sketchy.

I don't know if it's a focus thing or he lacks instincts or just doesn't have the football IQ to get it here.

What I do know is it is rare for a vet FA to do well here after not doing well their 1st year in the system.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

How is Smith being mis-used? Josh is clearly limited in how he can use Smith because I'm not sure what others are seeing but to me he is simply not confident in what he is doing out there. He fights the ball when it's thrown to him, he makes dumb mistakes blocking and his route-running is sketchy.

I don't know if it's a focus thing or he lacks instincts or just doesn't have the football IQ to get it here.

What I do know is it is rare for a vet FA to do well here after not doing well their 1st year in the system.

How did he score 9 TDs on the Titans ?

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Smith is being mis-used. Josh is clearly mentally limited in how he uses a 2nd tight end pass-catching weapon

Fixed it

 

[Scotty]

There is a video on YT called "Every Jonnu Smith touchdown with the Titans". It is only short clips but some of you with better knowledge than me may see what type of plays they were. Quite a few are catches in the end zone.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

There is a video on YT called "Every Jonnu Smith touchdown with the Titans". It is only short clips but some of you with better knowledge than me may see what type of plays they were. Quite a few are catches in the end zone.

The guy can play when the current oc realizes Jonnu is not Dwayne Allen

 

[chasa]

There is a video on YT called "Every Jonnu Smith touchdown with the Titans". It is only short clips but some of you with better knowledge than me may see what type of plays they were. Quite a few are catches in the end zone.

the biggest take away i'm getting here is that the patriots offense is too ****ing vanilla.

 

[50-yard-line]

How is Smith being mis-used? Josh is clearly limited in how he can use Smith because I'm not sure what others are seeing but to me he is simply not confident in what he is doing out there. He fights the ball when it's thrown to him, he makes dumb mistakes blocking and his route-running is sketchy.

I don't know if it's a focus thing or he lacks instincts or just doesn't have the football IQ to get it here.

What I do know is it is rare for a vet FA to do well here after not doing well their 1st year in the system.

Sometimes Patriots fans remind me of the 3 Stooges' joke where the guy is married 8 times and is cursed for marrying 8 barren women.

I'm not singling you here, but it's really frustrating to me to see players come in with a resume and suddenly "they suck." Then you watch the video like the one up above with Smith and think, "hmm, why can't we get guys like that?"

Here's the thing, DKF is obsessed with Josh - given - but that doesn't mean that he's wrong here. Something's not right - if it's the system, maybe it's time to rethink the "system," because it hasn't worked in years (faster LBs undercutting leveraged routes and faster edge rushers, maybe?), and probably won't work well without GOAT-man under center.

The worst thing that ever happened to Harry as a player was coming to New England, for both him and the Patriots. Square peg, round hole. He doesn't fit here and simply won't fit here. **** happens - draft is a crap shoot and yada yada yada, but the idea that Jonnu Smith "sucks" or "lacks instincts or focus" is disproven by an NFL-level body of work.

I watched the Pats run a nice little PA on the goal line and Mac loop a TD to Smith earlier in the year. Haven't seen it since. Last year, I watched Harry manhandle Chris Harris on a slant in the end zone, go up and catch a high throw from Newton and simply shrug Harris off. Haven't seen them try that play again. I mean, wtf? Is the Bolden pitch really a better option?

I know there are a million things I don't see that the coaches see, and know they know more than I ever will. But it's not like BB took over a team and inherited Smith and Harry and Agholor. And it's not like they were unknown quantities - the book on Harry coming out is exactly what he shows: doesn't get separation, wins contested throws. The peg is square and the women weren't barren.


This is why I sadly laugh when people say "Get a true number 1!!!!!" because here, right now, he wouldn't be a #1. He'd see a few targets a game, never get into a rhythm, and probably be complaining halfway through his first year.

 

[Scotty]

I still think Jonnu is a good player but its frustrating to see what ability he has shown compared to now. Has his skills etc just fallen off a cliff or is he better suited to a different set of plays....I dont know.

 

[RobertWeathers]

There is a video on YT called "Every Jonnu Smith touchdown with the Titans". It is only short clips but some of you with better knowledge than me may see what type of plays they were. Quite a few are catches in the end zone.

Screens, hand-offs, shovel passes, fades. PA seems to make up most of the calls. No question the guy has crazy talent.

I think some fans don't realize he is in a completely different offense that what he had in TN. His OC, Arthur Smith ran the West Coast offense.

That is not what we run here.

Hunter Henry learned under Ken Whisenhunt who is a Erhardt/Perkins guy.

So you have Mac who is in Year 1 with E/P and HH who is in Year 6 of E/P. It helps when your TE knows what to do.

Smith and Mac are both in Year 1 in E/P.

Considering TE is the hardest position to learn in this offense, the results aren't that surprising.

 

[JayNM]

How is Smith being mis-used? Josh is clearly limited in how he can use Smith because I'm not sure what others are seeing but to me he is simply not confident in what he is doing out there. He fights the ball when it's thrown to him, he makes dumb mistakes blocking and his route-running is sketchy.

I don't know if it's a focus thing or he lacks instincts or just doesn't have the football IQ to get it here.

What I do know is it is rare for a vet FA to do well here after not doing well their 1st year in the system.

I dont know if I can say the "how", but my line of thinking is kinda similar to DPK.

He was being utilized, and well, by the Titans. We payed him MORE than we pay Henry, and at time, prime market money. Its a pretty safe assumption that they were expecting... Henry level things-sorta out of him. In practical, so far, he has been a bust. based on a expected trend

From what you are saying, you are putting way more empashis into personal stuff, which, as far as I know, is as fair as assuming that maybe McDaniels/BB mishandled things by signing Jonnu - and you cant then disregards that either they had a bad profile on him, or they are not incorporating his role as well as the Titans did (and having Henry, with a convergence of certain skills, might a factor mixed in), but regardless, it is literally their job to sort this **** out, or not go so heavy on 2 Free Agents TE in the first place

 

[JayNM]

I'm not saying take any of Hunter's snaps away, keep doing all that with Henry . The red zone offense isn't good beyond Henry and Harris. It's not a high ranking red zone offense. So add in more plays for Jonnu. Jonnu should be playing more than the 25 snaps per game he gets being a glorified blocker. It's not 1 or the other on tight ends, that's how this oc thinks and has no clue how to use 2 good catching tight ends.

When Agholor comes back their red zone offense should still be 12 personnel where Meyers and Bourne are the wideouts, they are quick off the line. Agholor's straightline speed doesn't do anything in the red zone

I know you are not. What I am saying is that I dont think you should expect his role to change now.

Maybe at the real playoffs, we'll have SOME plays. But for a solid personell, all the time, only next year

 

[RobertWeathers]

Sometimes Patriots fans remind me of the 3 Stooges' joke where the guy is married 8 times and is cursed for marrying 8 barren women.

I'm not singling you here, but it's really frustrating to me to see players come in with a resume and suddenly "they suck." Then you watch the video like the one up above with Smith and think, "hmm, why can't we get guys like that?"

Here's the thing, DKF is obsessed with Josh - given - but that doesn't mean that he's wrong here. Something's not right - if it's the system, maybe it's time to rethink the "system," because it hasn't worked in years (faster LBs undercutting leveraged routes and faster edge rushers, maybe?), and probably won't work well without GOAT-man under center.

The worst thing that ever happened to Harry as a player was coming to New England, for both him and the Patriots. Square peg, round hole. He doesn't fit here and simply won't fit here. **** happens - draft is a crap shoot and yada yada yada, but the idea that Jonnu Smith "sucks" or "lacks instincts or focus" is disproven by an NFL-level body of work.

I watched the Pats run a nice little PA on the goal line and Mac loop a TD to Smith earlier in the year. Haven't seen it since. Last year, I watched Harry manhandle Chris Harris on a slant in the end zone, go up and catch a high throw from Newton and simply shrug Harris off. Haven't seen them try that play again. I mean, wtf? Is the Bolden pitch really a better option?

I know there are a million things I don't see that the coaches see, and know they know more than I ever will. But it's not like BB took over a team and inherited Smith and Harry and Agholor. And it's not like they were unknown quantities - the book on Harry coming out is exactly what he shows: doesn't get separation, wins contested throws. The peg is square and the women weren't barren.


This is why I sadly laugh when people say "Get a true number 1!!!!!" because here, right now, he wouldn't be a #1. He'd see a few targets a game, never get into a rhythm, and probably be complaining halfway through his first year.

Projecting how a player can fit into a system is the hardest thing a personnel person can do.

Football IQ goes a long way towards picking up a brand new offense. In addition to that chemistry with the QB also plays into that.

As I said in a subsequent post, I think Smith is having a tough time picking up aspects/nuances or whatever with the offense. Sight adjustments, reading the defense, etc.

TE is the hardest position in this offense to learn. To do everything well takes a special player.

 

[RobertWeathers]

I dont know if I can say the "how", but my line of thinking is kinda similar to DPK.

He was being utilized, and well, by the Titans. We payed him MORE than we pay Henry, and at time, prime market money. Its a pretty safe assumption that they were expecting... Henry level things-sorta out of him. In practical, so far, he has been a bust. based on a expected trend

From what you are saying, you are putting way more empashis into personal stuff, which, as far as I know, is as fair as assuming that maybe McDaniels/BB mishandled things by signing Jonnu - and you cant then disregards that either they had a bad profile on him, or they are not incorporiting his role as well as the Titans did (and having Henry, with a convergence of certain skills, might a factor mixed in), but regardless, it is literally their job to sort this **** out, or not go so heavy on 2 Free Agents TE in the first place

I am putting more emphasis on the assumptions that BB, Josh and others involved in their evaluation of Smith as a cultural and systematic fit because I think it's the root cause why he has been struggling to find a role in this offense.

Because of his freak physical and game-breaking ability, they felt it was worth the risk to sign Smith. The guy never had elite production in TN b/c they were a basically a run-first offense. They thought he could learn the offense and gain some level of comfort and chemistry with Cam or Mac.

Just hasn't worked out- yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

"The team that basically revolutionized the TE passing game in the 2010s doesn't know how to use TEs"


- Far too many posters here

 

[JayNM]

I am putting more emphasis on the assumptions that BB, Josh and others involved in their evaluation of Smith as a cultural and systematic fit because I think it's the root cause why he has been struggling to find a role in this offense.

Because of his freak physical and game-breaking ability, they felt it was worth the risk to sign Smith. The guy never had elite production in TN b/c they were a basically a run-first offense. They thought he could learn the offense and gain some level of comfort and chemistry with Cam or Mac.

Just hasn't worked out- yet.

Why do you think that tho? Was there any bad training reports on him of sorts?

Otherwise, we are in agreement

 

[JayNM]

"The team that basically revolutionized the TE passing game in the 2010s doesn't know how to use TEs"


- Far too many posters here

What are you implying?

11 years have come and gone since Hernandes and Gronk. Thats a long time...

I could even envision a scenario where you meant - a team so hang up on their once-great innovation, cant really see the reality of their times and wont adjust - doesnt seem far fatched, honestly

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Projecting how a player can fit into a system is the hardest thing a personnel person can do.

Football IQ goes a long way towards picking up a brand new offense. In addition to that chemistry with the QB also plays into that.

As I said in a subsequent post, I think Smith is having a tough time picking up aspects/nuances or whatever with the offense. Sight adjustments, reading the defense, etc.

TE is the hardest position in this offense to learn. To do everything well takes a special player.

Terrible post and a real stretch to start insinuating Jonnu's IQ. Stop rationalizing crappy decisions by the low-IQ oc.

Jonnu is clearly being put in situations he's not great at - blocking 80% of the time, or running routes like an outside WR. Look at his plays, this is what he's relegated to.