OT: Huge Discrepancy in Diggs' Playing Time (Update 9/12: The NFL Finally Corrected It)

[Ian]

Part of what I've been doing the last day or so is I spent Monday morning before I had to leave and part of yesterday morning breaking down the All-22 film and doing a visual tally of each player's playing times, going play-by-play, because I wanted to be able to look at groupings, etc. for various things on here, as well as tie it into the main stats database.

My totals on defense matched perfectly to what the league had. However, on offense, my numbers didn't match on Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins.

As some of you may know, the league always releases the snap totals the day after the game, which I updated as I always do into the snaps page I have on here. I didn't save that copy, but this is what it showed (which is currently how it displays on that page):

D.Maye: 71
G.Bradbury: 71
J.Wilson: 71
M.Moses: 71
M.Onwenu: 71
W.Campbell: 71
H.Henry: 66
K.Boutte: 58
R.Stevenson: 46
D.Douglas: 45
S.Diggs: 29
M.Hollins: 40
T.Henderson: 25
A.Hooper: 23
K.Williams: 7
A.Gibson: 5
J.Westover: 2

After doing an initial visual review play-by-play (which took about 3 hours), I have:

D.Maye: 71
G.Bradbury: 71
J.Wilson: 71
M.Moses: 71
M.Onwenu: 71
W.Campbell: 71
H.Henry: 66
K.Boutte: 58
R.Stevenson: 46
D.Douglas: 45
S.Diggs: 40
M.Hollins: 38
T.Henderson: 25
A.Hooper: 23
K.Williams: 7
A.Gibson: 5
J.Westover: 2

I looked, and the league's totals must have changed at some point yesterday (I still have this file open):



But it's still off. And this drove me absolutely crazy, so I went back again through every offensive play late last night and verified it against my spreadsheet, and I also screenshotted every play to make sure I wasn't crazy and verified Diggs and Hollins' times on the field, and they're definitely out there.

I just went back on to see if maybe a correction has been made, and they did - but they're still off:



They lowered Hollins and raised Diggs, but it's still off. And I know this because the math doesn't math.

For example, on the first one from the league, if you do the math, it's 772 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 7018181818
On the second one from the league, if you do the math, it's 773 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 70.27272727
On the latest one from the league, if you do the math, it's again 773 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 70.27272727

The count I have: 781/11 (players per snap) = 71

Again, I visually verified every play, and I verified Diggs and Hollins' time on the field, taking into consideration pre-snap penalties that lead to the final total.

But there's definitely a discrepancy on their end. The league made one correction, and I'm sure there's another one probably to follow. However, I've seen and listened to a few people talking about Diggs' playing time online, and he was out there more than people might have thought, given how far off the initial number the league posted was.

I have all of these logged and tied into the stats database, and once it's up and running, you'll be able to sort everything. Just have to finish putting that together.

But for those who follow this, I thought you might find it interesting. I guess even with all the technology they have, it's not as accurate as you would think. The current chart for this year will be fed this data once I get it implemented, and I'll post something at some point when it's up and running.

 

[Ross12]

I know I had a hard time differentiating Boutte and Diggs at times because they have a similar size and are wearing "8" and "9" respectively, where the font looks very similar. I wonder if that's contributing.

 

[Pape]

that's a huge undertaking... not sure i'd want to tackle something like that...

as for the discrepancies between offense and defense, the O always seem to have many more subs than the defense does... so it makes sense the defensive numbers matched while the offensive play counts might not...

as for Diggs, unless they are keeping him on a pitch count, he should be on the field for the majority of the snaps on offense...

 

[Ian]

I know I had a hard time differentiating Boutte and Diggs at times because they have a similar size and are wearing "8" and "9" respectively, where the font looks very similar. I wonder if that's contributing.

I don't know - I thought the same thing, but they were perfect on Boutte at 58. That was dead on in each version. But to be at 29, to 31, to 34 and still be off that badly (it's definitely 40) is kind of crazy.

 

[Ian]

that's a huge undertaking... not sure i'd want to tackle something like that...

as for the discrepancies between offense and defense, the O always seem to have many more subs than the defense does... so it makes sense the defensive numbers matched while the offensive play counts might not...

as for Diggs, unless they are keeping him on a pitch count, he should be on the field for the majority of the snaps on offense...

I already log all the offensive plays (penalties included), so I have them all, I just fed in who was out there on each play. All the numbers across the board match except for those two guys. So out of 17 guys who were out there at various points on offense, it's just those two that are off.

 

[Pape]

I already log all the offensive plays (penalties included), so I have them all, I just fed in who was out there on each play. All the numbers across the board match except for those two guys. So out of 17 guys who were out there at various points on offense, it's just those two that are off.

are they off by the same percentages?

 

[signbabybrady]

I know I had a hard time differentiating Boutte and Diggs at times because they have a similar size and are wearing "8" and "9" respectively, where the font looks very similar. I wonder if that's contributing.

From my spot in the stands I was mixing up 3, 8, and 9 too. From the right angles they all look like 8s.

Maybe this will confuse the other team from time to time too lol.

 

[Clonamery]

Are you billing for OT, Ian? Your wife wants to know.

 

[Gumby]

Part of what I've been doing the last day or so is I spent Monday morning before I had to leave and part of yesterday morning breaking down the All-22 film and doing a visual tally of each player's playing times, going play-by-play, …..

…..
But it's still off. And this drove me absolutely crazy, so I went back again through every offensive play late last night and verified it against my spreadsheet, and I also screenshotted every play to make sure I wasn't crazy ……

They lowered Hollins and raised Diggs, but it's still off. And I know this because the math doesn't math.

For example, on the first one from the league, if you do the math, it's 772 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 7018181818
For example, on the second one from the league, if you do the math, it's 773 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 70.27272727
For example, on the latest one from the league, if you do the math, it's again 773 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 70.27272727

The count I have: 781/11 (players per snap) = 71

Again, I visually verified every play, and I verified Diggs and Hollins' time on the field, taking into consideration pre-snap penalties that lead to the final total.
.

And this is why we love you & Patsfans….

I barely have time to keep up reading all the interesting threads (on 1 single forum). How you do this while keeping up a website, family, day-job is amazing.

Thanks for how much you care.

 

[Ian]

are they off by the same percentages?

Not really percentages. They're off by six plays with Diggs and two with Hollins (and they were definitely out there). Like I said, the math doesn't math, because if you add up their numbers and divide them by 11, it comes in below the 71 total.

 

[Pape]

Not really percentages. They're off by six plays with Diggs and two with Hollins (and they were definitely out there). Like I said, the math doesn't math, because if you add up their numbers and divide them by 11, it comes in below the 71 total.

and the league probably doesn't break it down that far, so there is no reference...

yeah, I have seen where the stats don't meet reality... so its not surprising... maybe get an ai bot up and running to spot jersey numbers for each play...

 

[Ian]

I know I had a hard time differentiating Boutte and Diggs at times because they have a similar size and are wearing "8" and "9" respectively, where the font looks very similar. I wonder if that's contributing.

What's sort of funny is my wife can see the thing Diggs wears around his neck, and I absolutely can't. Her eyes are better than mine in that way. Although she picks up on a lot of things...she's - to her credit - incredibly observant.

I had to watch each play through and screencapped a quick clip of the back of his (and Hollins') jersey(s) to paste in as I was compiling all of them to make absolutely sure.

 

[Pape]

From my spot in the stands I was mixing up 3, 8, and 9 too. From the right angles they all look like 8s.

Maybe this will confuse the other team from time to time too lol.

one of the myriad of reasons why the "new" (its not really new anymore) numbering system sucks...

now get off my lawn

 

[Pape]

What's sort of funny is my wife can see the thing Diggs wears around his neck, and I absolutely can't. Her eyes are better than mine in that way. Although she picks up on a lot of things...she's - to her credit - incredibly observant.

i can imagine... bet she gets a lot of practice around the house to hone that skill, huh?

lol

(i kid i kid, apologies if its taken in any way but as a joke)

 

[PatsFan2]

Kyle Williams 7 snaps: compared to 40 for a Non factor. McDaniels is an idiot nuff said.

 

[Ian]

i can imagine... bet she gets a lot of practice around the house to hone that skill, huh?

lol

(i kid i kid, apologies if its taken in any way but as a joke)

LOL, with two kids (now adults), it's always been a skill, she doesn't miss anything. I win very few arguments, and I've learned to know that she's generally right the majority of the time. Very little slips past her, so I tend to be on the wrong end of things from that standpoint. @Ross12 has young kids, and I don't know how his wife is, but he's probably going through that also.

 

[PatsFan2]

I know I had a hard time differentiating Boutte and Diggs at times because they have a similar size and are wearing "8" and "9" respectively, where the font looks very similar. I wonder if that's contributing.

Boutte's ceiling is Diggs book it.

 

[Hammer of Thor]

Part of what I've been doing the last day or so is I spent Monday morning before I had to leave and part of yesterday morning breaking down the All-22 film and doing a visual tally of each player's playing times, going play-by-play, because I wanted to be able to look at groupings, etc. for various things on here, as well as tie it into the main stats database.

My totals on defense matched perfectly to what the league had. However, on offense, my numbers didn't match on Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins.

As some of you may know, the league always releases the snap totals the day after the game, which I updated as I always do into the snaps page I have on here. I didn't save that copy, but this is what it showed (which is currently how it displays on that page):

D.Maye: 71
G.Bradbury: 71
J.Wilson: 71
M.Moses: 71
M.Onwenu: 71
W.Campbell: 71
H.Henry: 66
K.Boutte: 58
R.Stevenson: 46
D.Douglas: 45
S.Diggs: 29
M.Hollins: 40
T.Henderson: 25
A.Hooper: 23
K.Williams: 7
A.Gibson: 5
J.Westover: 2

After doing an initial visual review play-by-play (which took about 3 hours), I have:

D.Maye: 71
G.Bradbury: 71
J.Wilson: 71
M.Moses: 71
M.Onwenu: 71
W.Campbell: 71
H.Henry: 66
K.Boutte: 58
R.Stevenson: 46
D.Douglas: 45
S.Diggs: 40
M.Hollins: 38
T.Henderson: 25
A.Hooper: 23
K.Williams: 7
A.Gibson: 5
J.Westover: 2

I looked, and the league's totals must have changed at some point yesterday (I still have this file open):



But it's still off. And this drove me absolutely crazy, so I went back again through every offensive play late last night and verified it against my spreadsheet, and I also screenshotted every play to make sure I wasn't crazy and verified Diggs and Hollins' times on the field, and they're definitely out there.

I just went back on to see if maybe a correction has been made, and they did - but they're still off:



They lowered Hollins and raised Diggs, but it's still off. And I know this because the math doesn't math.

For example, on the first one from the league, if you do the math, it's 772 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 7018181818
On the second one from the league, if you do the math, it's 773 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 70.27272727
On the latest one from the league, if you do the math, it's again 773 snaps/11 (players per snap) = 70.27272727

The count I have: 781/11 (players per snap) = 71

Again, I visually verified every play, and I verified Diggs and Hollins' time on the field, taking into consideration pre-snap penalties that lead to the final total.

But there's definitely a discrepancy on their end. The league made one correction, and I'm sure there's another one probably to follow. However, I've seen and listened a few people talking about Diggs' playing time online, and he was out there more than people might have thought, given how far off the initial number the league posted was.

I have all of these logged and tied into the stats database, and once it's up and running, you'll be able to sort everything. Just have to finish putting that together.

But for those who follow this, I thought you might find it interesting. I guess even with all the technology they have, it's not as accurate as you would think. The current chart for this year will be fed this data once I get it implemented, and I'll post something at some point when it's up and running.

Great job Ian. But this is the league that doesn’t know the ideal gas law exists; do you really expect them to know that total offensive snaps divided by 11 must equal a whole number?

 

[Ian]

Great job Ian. But this is the league that doesn’t know the ideal gas law exists; do you really expect them to know that total offensive snaps divided by 11 must equal a whole number?

It's kind of annoying because I was all excited when after all that, the defensive numbers were perfect, and then all the offensive numbers were dead on except for those two. So I was bummed because it's not a quick thing to go back and look at all of them again, and I didn't log the screenshots the first time through, which would have made it faster. And then I highlighted it row-by-row as a verified it and was annoyed that I didn't find any issues, thinking I was missing something, albeit I saw with my own eyes they were out there for those plays.

It wasn't until I did the math and then pulled it up again today (and saw it changed again - but the math remains off) that I realized maybe I wasn't crazy, and it was possible they were the ones with the wrong totals.

 

[KCSVEN]

Part of what I've been doing the last day or so is I spent Monday morning before I had to leave and part of yesterday morning breaking down the All-22 film and doing a visual tally of each player's playing times, going play-by-play, because I wanted to be able to look at groupings, etc. for various things on here, as well as tie it into the main stats database.

My totals on defense matched perfectly to what the league had. However, on offense, my numbers didn't match on Stefon Diggs and Mack Hollins.

If you are using NFL PRO all 22 you can just type his name in and gives you just his plays.
Diggs had 35. Boutte had 62. I watched all 35 Diggs and he was in there but did not watch all 62 for Boutte...
So maybe you or them mixed up Boutte and Diggs?
FYI Diggs has dark gloves, Boutte had white gloves. I think Diggs was only receiver with the dark gloves