5 teams in 2009 on the rise & 5 teams in decline

[glm]

Negative. Who was the Wes Welker in Minnesota? Moss is one of the all-time greats. Put Welker on ANY other offense and he catches 70 passes, tops. Maybe he would have more with the Colts, maybe Saints. That's it.

Or maybe he just didn't do that well at first because he was playing on the Dolphins.

 

[Deus Irae]

Negative. Who was the Wes Welker in Minnesota? Moss is one of the all-time greats. Put Welker on ANY other offense and he catches 70 passes, tops. Maybe he would have more with the Colts, maybe Saints. That's it.

Given that Welker had 67 receptions on that terrible '06 Dolphins team that feature the immortals Joey Harrington, Daunte Culpepper and Cleo Lemon under center, you really need to learn when to cut your losses.

 

[Wide_Receiver]

Given that Welker had 67 receptions on that terrible '06 Dolphins team that feature the immortals Joey Harrington, Daunte Culpepper and Cleo Lemon under center, you really need to learn when to cut your losses.

Yep. And he scored a wopping one touchdown with us.

 

[glm]

Yep. And he scored a wopping one touchdown with us.

I think Welker not doing good had more to do with the team than with his skill.

 

[BradyFTW!]

Negative. Who was the Wes Welker in Minnesota? Moss is one of the all-time greats. Put Welker on ANY other offense and he catches 70 passes, tops. Maybe he would have more with the Colts, maybe Saints. That's it.

Cris Carter. Moss has always had an elite WR on the field with him when he's been highly productive, and one who specifically punished defenses for overcompensating on Moss. When Carter left in 2001, it showed the following year in Moss's statistics, even though D'Wayne Bates and Byron Chamberlain did a pretty good job in his absence. When Moss ended up with 7 TDs that year, it was the first time he had finished with less than 10 in his 5 year career.

Does Moss makes WRs better than they are? Sure, but good WRs making defenses pay free him up a ton too- it's a mutual thing.

Considering that Welker had about 70 catches on the Dolphin's crappy-ass offense, I think that's pretty much the minimum you can expect him. Put him on any competent offense and it only goes up.

 

[Wide_Receiver]

I think Welker not doing good had more to do with the team than with his skill.

And doing good now has a lot more to do the team than his skill.

 

[glm]

And doing good now has a lot more to do the team than his skill.

If by that you mean coming to a team that doesn't suck horribly and allows him to play to his potential, then yeah, I guess you could say it was the team.

 

[Wide_Receiver]

If by that you mean coming to a team that doesn't suck horribly and allows him to play to his potential, then yeah, I guess you could say it was the team.

Look, he's good at what he does, I'm not going to argue that. He has good zone and route recognition, he gets in and out of cuts quickly, and he's a very tough football player.

But my point is that he's extremely limited in his abilities. He will NEVER stretch the field, he can't like up as an X or Z receiver and he'll never play the split end.

There aren't many systems he will succeed so greatly in. Put him in a traditional offense that is still dominant (say the Giants or Panthers) and he's back to being a 65 catch, 700 yard 0 touchdown guy.

But, put him with one of the better quarterbacks all time, one of the 5 best receivers of all time, and in a spread offense, he can really excell. And he has.

 

[PATRIOT64]

Look, he's good at what he does, I'm not going to argue that. He has good zone and route recognition, he gets in and out of cuts quickly, and he's a very tough football player.

But my point is that he's extremely limited in his abilities. He will NEVER stretch the field, he can't like up as an X or Z receiver and he'll never play the split end.

There aren't many systems he will succeed so greatly in. Put him in a traditional offense that is still dominant (say the Giants or Panthers) and he's back to being a 65 catch, 700 yard 0 touchdown guy.

But, put him with the 2nd best quarterback of all time (behind Montana), one of the 2 best receivers of all time (behind Rice), and in a spread offense, he can really excell. And he has.

I fixed your quote a little to properly address obvious mistakes on your part

 

[Wide_Receiver]

I fixed your quote a little to properly address obvious mistakes on your part

Another debate for another day, my friend. :eat3:

I think I'm going to have to agree about Moss, though. But Larry Fitzgerald is creeping into that discussion himself.

 

[glm]

Look, he's good at what he does, I'm not going to argue that. He has good zone and route recognition, he gets in and out of cuts quickly, and he's a very tough football player.

But my point is that he's extremely limited in his abilities. He will NEVER stretch the field, he can't like up as an X or Z receiver and he'll never play the split end.

There aren't many systems he will succeed so greatly in. Put him in a traditional offense that is still dominant (say the Giants or Panthers) and he's back to being a 65 catch, 700 yard 0 touchdown guy.

But, put him with one of the better quarterbacks all time, one of the 5 best receivers of all time, and in a spread offense, he can really excell. And he has.

It's debatable of what he would do on the Panthers with Steve Smith and that monster running game they have.

 

[Ring 6]

Negative. Who was the Wes Welker in Minnesota? Moss is one of the all-time greats. Put Welker on ANY other offense and he catches 70 passes, tops. Maybe he would have more with the Colts, maybe Saints. That's it.

Wes Welker is the leading receiver in the NFL the last 2 years. ANY team that was smart enough to use him properly would be doing so if they had him. LEADING RECEIVER IN THE NFL. HUGE mistake your team made letting him go. Come to terms with it and you wont sound so clueless.

 

[Wide_Receiver]

Wes Welker is the leading receiver in the NFL the last 2 years. ANY team that was smart enough to use him properly would be doing so if they had him. LEADING RECEIVER IN THE NFL. HUGE mistake your team made letting him go. Come to terms with it and you wont sound so clueless.

When are people going to stop claiming we let him go? He signed as a restricted free agent and the reason he was eventually traded was to avoid a poison pill from occuring.

And I'm happy with Davone Bess. He does exactly what Welker would be doing for us.

 

[Ring 6]

When are people going to stop claiming we let him go? He signed as a restricted free agent and the reason he was eventually traded was to avoid a poison pill from occuring.

And I'm happy with Davone Bess. He does exactly what Welker would be doing for us.

But there was no poison pill in the Pats offer, thats why you got more than the RFA cost, because you could have easily matched,.
If you think Davone Bess can hold Wes Welkers jockstrap you are either a blind homer or a cricket fan pretending to discuss football.

You are almost correct actually. Just replace exactly with 'almost half of' and you've got it.
54 is close to half of 111.
Nice job you have half the player.

Of course if you changed it to YOUR BEST 2 WRs give you exactly what Welker would, you'd be right on. Your top 2 guys caught as many passes as Welker alone.

 

[Wide_Receiver]

But there was no poison pill in the Pats offer, thats why you got more than the RFA cost, because you could have easily matched,.
If you think Davone Bess can hold Wes Welkers jockstrap you are either a blind homer or a cricket fan pretending to discuss football.

You are almost correct actually. Just replace exactly with 'almost half of' and you've got it.
54 is close to half of 111.
Nice job you have half the player.

Of course if you changed it to YOUR BEST 2 WRs give you exactly what Welker would, you'd be right on. Your top 2 guys caught as many passes as Welker alone.

Davone Bess' rookie year:

54 receptions 554 yards 1 touchdown

Wes Welker's rookie year:

0 receptions 0 yards 0 touchdowns

Alright, let's give Wes a break, let's look at his second year.

29 catches 434 yards 0 touchdowns

But Davone was drafted so high, I can see why you would expect him to do much more... Wait, undrafted? Ahh, that's right. Davone has all the skills Wes has. Give him experience and a similar offense and you'd see the same thing. Just like he did at Hawaii.

 

[glm]

Davone Bess' rookie year:

54 receptions 554 yards 1 touchdown

Wes Welker's rookie year:

0 receptions 0 yards 0 touchdowns

Alright, let's give Wes a break, let's look at his second year.

29 catches 434 yards 0 touchdowns

But Davone was drafted so high, I can see why you would expect him to do much more... Wait, undrafted? Ahh, that's right. Davone has all the skills Wes has. Give him experience and a similar offense and you'd see the same thing. Just like he did at Hawaii.

Who had the better QB, coaches, and Bill Parcells?

 

[Deus Irae]

Yep. And he scored a wopping one touchdown with us.

Way to move those goalposts!

 

[Wide_Receiver]

Who had the better QB, coaches, and Bill Parcells?

Bil Parcells was throwing passes?

And NOW you're saying that having Brady and Moss makes a bit of a difference... Hmm...

How about Josh McDaniels?

 

[glm]

Bil Parcells was throwing passes?

And NOW you're saying that having Brady and Moss makes a bit of a difference... Hmm...

How about Josh McDaniels?

No I mean when Welker was playing for the Dolphins.

 

[Ring 6]

Davone Bess' rookie year:

54 receptions 554 yards 1 touchdown

Wes Welker's rookie year:

0 receptions 0 yards 0 touchdowns

Alright, let's give Wes a break, let's look at his second year.

29 catches 434 yards 0 touchdowns

But Davone was drafted so high, I can see why you would expect him to do much more... Wait, undrafted? Ahh, that's right. Davone has all the skills Wes has. Give him experience and a similar offense and you'd see the same thing. Just like he did at Hawaii.

111 to 54. No more needs to be said.