PostGame Thread 2023 Week 2: Patriots Lose to Dolphins 24-17

[Kdo5]

if Bill is smart he will plan on the run for most of the game and some screen passes to the backs as well ...this is how this team with the worst OL in the league has to change up things but even screen passes and runs down the center will be tough when no one can block consistently

Mac will not be able to stand in a pocket that collapses within 2.5 seconds

Screen passes to Douglas, Montgomery, Rhamondre. Hell sneak Marcus Jones in for one.

Just for the love of God don’t throw another screen to JuJu we have plenty of options that make sense there.

 

[gitgronked82]

Mac came up short, again. I can think of three poor decisions. First was him calling an audible into a sweep run on third and short which got blown up. There was also the INT and throwing short of the sticks on fourth down. I get that there might not be separation from the other receivers but you’ve gotta take a shot.

Bill continued the mind numbing trend of benching players who can help us win. Douglas is our only receiver who can make plays on his own and gets yards after catch.

Some questionable calls from O’Brien with constantly using screens to a slower possession receiver like JuJu.

The defense was mostly decent, they gave us multiple chances to win.

Bright spot was obviously Christian Gonzalez. IMO Tyreke Hill is the best receiver in the game. If you can slow down a guy like that you are already a legitimate #1 CB.

I agree with most of what you said, but the throw to gesicki on the last play wasn’t a bad decision. The protection was an absolute joke and he immediately had to chuck the ball out in the face of interior pressure. Gesicki was open enough that if mac coulda stepped into the throw it would’ve been a first.

 

[FCB02062]

if the Patriots do not win a playoff game this season....that will be FIVE years without a post season victory... the longest stretch since 1986 to 1995 (the division victory over Pittsburgh in 96) was their first since winning the AFC title game in 85

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

I think mobility is proving to be valuable but a real dual threat rushing QB remains mostly a college football thing.

I don't believe that to be true with some of the top QBs in this league could beat you with their arms n legs. You just had one win his 2nd title. 2 just played in the SB.

And here are some that give you the Patriots fitz.

Lamar Jackson
Tua
Josh Allen

There's two in our own division..it would of been 3 had Rodgers not get hurt.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I like Parker but he has a very limited skill set. He is a #3 receiver at this stage although he can still be a net positive.

JuJu isn’t looking like he fits well in this offense whether it is due to injury or redundancy. He is a similar type of receiver to Parker.

According to this guy, the Patriots made a clear mistake on JSS with the contract. He simply isn’t any better than their other receivers plus the injury issues. His targets and snap counts play into this.

Callahan: Why the Patriots’ JuJu Smith-Schuster question won’t be going away

The Patriots’ new No. 1 receiver has been anything but so far. And they see it.

www.bostonherald.com

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Screen passes to Douglas, Montgomery, Rhamondre. Hell sneak Marcus Jones in for one.

Just for the love of God don’t throw another screen to JuJu we have plenty of options that make sense there.

I knew Juju was a bust as a FA pickup - and to put salt in the wound, the guy he replaced who was Agholor made a nice TD catch today for Baltimore lol

 

[Ian]

Yeah we will all be 6 feet under by the time the next Brady-like QB starts at Gillette - QBs are a stab in the dark whether its the first round or the 7th round - Ryan Leaf comes to mind as biggest heralded QB ever who failed beyond belief and of course Brady the opposite, Drafting a QB will never be a guarantee of good or bad,you could say that for any position as well

It's tough. I've said it before, but there just aren't even that many elite quarterbacks in the league as it is. A lot of mostly good, and some of that mostly good has enough talent around them to allow them to have more success than others.

The thing killing this team right now, honestly, has been injuries. If they go into tonight at full strength on both sides of the ball, and had they started five guys on the line that played together all of preseason these last two weeks, maybe we're having a different discussion given how each game played out.

Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case. Again, we talk about who they have, but there are teams out there with worse rosters. This one just happens to have the least amount of margin for error, and they're not elite enough collectively to overcome it.

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

I don't believe that to be true with some of the top QBs in this league could beat you with their arms n legs. You just had one win his 2nd title. 2 just played in the SB.

And here are some that give you the Patriots fits.

Lamar Jackson
Tua
Josh Allen

There's two in our own division..it would of been 3 had Rodgers not get hurt.

It’s semantics. I think Jackson is the only real “dual threat” who is looking to get a lot yards on the ground whereas Allen is mobile but usually scrambles when plays break down or he sees a wide open gap. The Bills might have a few designed runs for him but he isn’t really used like a running back like Jackson. Tua is fairly mobile but mostly a pocket passer…same with Mahomes. Both use mobility to move in pocket and occasionally break off some chunk yards.

 

[Ian]

I knew Juju was a bust as a FA pickup - and to put salt in the wound, the guy he replaced who was Agholor made a nice TD catch today for Baltimore lol

Agholor was maddening. The epitome of inconsistent, especially for the price tag. Don't lament his loss.

 

[Schmo]

Also had a couple of other decent throws on the run that had some zip on them.

I'm not a Parker fan. He's a player who is really good further down the depth chart, but not where he is currently.

And I think the N'Keal Harry selection is what stopped them from drafting Pickens. I think they were too afraid of being wrong and that he would end up being a similar player and that's what scared them off, so they went with the faster and more athletic player in Thornton, who they probably could have used tonight.

Personally, I don't include Parker in my WR depth chart. Great if he's in there, but gotta concentrate on what works.... including Juju's knee. Seems like Pats nation is split on that one.

I immediately thought of Thornton after that inc to Bourne. Mac was turning back the page to his Alabama days throwing to Waddle and Smith. Pin point to an elite receiver if you ask me.

Desperately hoping that Thornton is the one to fill that gap.

 

[Ian]

It’s semantics. I think Jackson is the only real “dual threat” who is looking to get a lot yards on the ground whereas Allen is mobile but usually scrambles when plays break down or he sees a wide open gap. The Bills might have a few designed runs for him but he isn’t really used like a running back like Jackson. Tua is fairly mobile but mostly a pocket passer…same with Mahomes.

All of those guys have also been banged up. Again, I don't know how sustainable that style of play over the long-term is. Given what we've seen historically, it really hasn't been. At least given the injuries and the amount of time those guys have lasted.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

Agholor was maddening. The epitome of inconsistent, especially for the price tag. Don't lament his loss.

He might do a little better in Baltimore - off to a 5 catch 65 yard stat in 2 games

 

[Ian]

Personally, I don't include Parker in my WR depth chart. Great if he's in there, but gotta concentrate on what works.... including Juju's knee. Seems like Pats nation is split on that one.

I immediately thought of Thornton after that inc to Bourne. Mac was turning back the page to his Alabama days throwing to Waddle and Smith. Pin point to an elite receiver if you ask me.

Desperately hoping that Thornton is the one to fill that gap.

They need to get the ball to Thornton in space the way Miami does with Hill. Heaving the ball downfield hasn't worked out, and he has had some success making yards after the catch in what limited opportunities he's had. He just needs to develop the Deion Branch method of self-preservation and get down before he gets hit. Branch sort of proved you can be successful doing that, so maybe that will work for him ... who knows.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

It’s semantics. I think Jackson is the only real “dual threat” who is looking to get a lot yards on the ground whereas Allen is mobile but usually scrambles when plays break down or he sees a wide open gap. The Bills might have a few designed runs for him but he isn’t really used like a running back like Jackson. Tua is fairly mobile but mostly a pocket passer…same with Mahomes.

If they are designing plays for him (Allen) then he is a dual threat especially when he in general takes off running whether it be by design or not..he is a load to take down so you have to worry about that

And if you have to worry about that. Them taken off running and they have the speed to extend the play..in my book that's a dual threat

All those QBs I named have done it and have killed teams doing it. As I stated before..

More and more QBs are mobile and definitely have the ability to make coordinators worry about that. Both their arm n leg.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

if the Patriots do not win a playoff game this season....that will be FIVE years without a post season victory... the longest stretch since 1986 to 1995 (the division victory over Pittsburgh in 96) was their first since winning the AFC title game in 85

 

[Ice_Ice_Brady]

Agholor was maddening. The epitome of inconsistent, especially for the price tag. Don't lament his loss.

I hope we can all agree that paying in the $8-12M range for clear #2/#3 receivers in free agency is one of the worst investments. Agholor, Smith-Schuster, Parker. So much better to pony up for a real game breaker or just go get a bunch of lower cost jags. These guys add very little value for the cost. Add Sanu to this list (though acquired via trade.) When you’re looking to upgrade the receiving corp, this marginal improvement is nothing like the ripple effect of a pro bowl level receiver.

 

[festy1986]

I hope we can all agree that paying in the $8-12M range for clear #2/#3 receivers in free agency is one of the worst investments. Agholor, Smith-Schuster, Parker. So much better to pony up for a real game breaker or just go get a bunch of lower cost jags. These guys add very little value for the cost.

It's because they won't trade for real WR talent and they can't draft it for ****.

So they have to grab these bums who are making decent money cause they're the leftovers.

It's a waste.

 

[Kdo5]

They need to get the ball to Thornton in space the way Miami does with Hill. Heaving the ball downfield hasn't worked out, and he has had some success making yards after the catch in what limited opportunities he's had. He just needs to develop the Deion Branch method of self-preservation and get down before he gets hit. Branch sort of proved you can be successful doing that, so maybe that will work for him ... who knows.

I’m not giving up on Thornton. If we want to go anywhere as an offense we need someone who has the speed to make chunk plays. Thornton and Douglas are the only options at receiver for that.

Obviously the line needs to give time for receivers to get separation first.

 

[Ghost_Rush02]

All of those guys have also been banged up. Again, I don't know how sustainable that style of play over the long-term is. Given what we've seen historically, it really hasn't been. At least given the injuries and the amount of time those guys have lasted.

I remembered you making this point before, i never got a chance to address it.

I had a discussion with a Bills Fan before about Allen and i remembered he brought a stat up that showed mobile QBs are not getting hurt anymore than pocket passers..

QBs are getting hurt off of just being hit, landing funny, throwing arm getting banged, etc...not cause they decided to run and got crushed and hurt because they took off running, in general .

I mean most coaches and coordinators rather their QBs not run as much but it doesn't hurt when they have to and they could extend a play or make an incredible throw off the running...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

I hope we can all agree that paying in the $8-12M range for clear #2/#3 receivers in free agency is one of the worst investments. Agholor, Smith-Schuster, Parker. So much better to pony up for a real game breaker or just go get a bunch of lower cost jags. These guys add very little value for the cost.

With an unproven Mac its more of a gamble, with Brady back then signing a guy like Welker for 18M was not as big a gamble cause you knew what you had throwing him the ball and would get the best out of him,Mac doesn't make any receiver better at this point