2023 DL Discussion

[State]

Needed

We have no punter, we got what, at least by appearance, may very well be a spectacular punter. Oh noes! BB iz stupidz!

I’ve been following Bryce Baringer longer than anyone other than his mother. He’s got the third biggest punting leg I’ve seen. One of the two bigger legs was picked 180 by the Bills and is currently unemployed.

So he’s beautiful at flipping the field.

The best collegiate punter was from Rutgers and wasn’t even drafted. He does a better job of not overkicking the ball into the end zone.

Adam Korsak won the Ray Guy Award for last season.

 

[DaBruinz]

We have no punter, we got what, at least by appearance, may very well be a spectacular punter. Oh noes! BB iz stupidz!

There you go again, @rochrist . Using facts again. Don't you know that emotional over-reaction by the chicken little crowd trumps all that.. I mean.. Seriously..



LOL..

 

[DaBruinz]

Needed

I’ve been following Bryce Baringer longer than anyone other than his mother. He’s got the third biggest punting leg I’ve seen. One of the two bigger legs was picked 180 by the Bills and is currently unemployed.

You mean Matt Araiza? The guy who was accused of participating in a gang rape but wasn't charged by the San Diego DA because they couldn't actually make a case? Way to ignore WHY he is unemployed. *SMH*

So he’s beautiful at flipping the field.

The best collegiate punter was from Rutgers and wasn’t even drafted. He does a better job of not overkicking the ball into the end zone.

Adam Korsak won the Ray Guy Award for last season.

Clearly the Pats felt that Baringer was better than Korsak. It was also mentioned that the Baringer was punting differently after getting tips during the Senior Bowl practices. You know. The Senior Bowl. Where the Pats had at least 1 Coach working with players in Covington. So they have some 1st hand knowledge of his practice habits.

 

[Wozzy]

I'm not trying to hold that game against him. He played out of his mind and then was his usual non impact self for every other game. One good game doesn't erase my image of him. He is on the field more than Judon and has just as many pure rushing attempts on the edge without the results. They use Wise like they did Trey Flowers but he doesn't sniff what Flowers gave us especially in run defense. I wish he could make me eat these words but he hasn't for like 3 seasons. I feel like someone like Ndamukong Suh would put us over the top. We used to collect old defensive tackles with decent results e.g. Gerad Warren, Shaun Ellis etc.

Here's what many Patriot fans don't understand about Wise, and I didn't understand it for years either. For a long time I wanted him upgraded... then one day after a great game of his, I went back and looked at his draft profile.

The guy is 6'5," they love to use him on third down and down near the goal line on the QB's right (dominant hand) side for a reason. Wise's 35 5/8 arms and 85 3/8's wingspan are longer than any Offensive Tackle in this year's draft class except Dawand Jones, they're longer than anyone on the Patriots besides Trent Brown.

He has one of the widest wingspans in the league, certainly for his size. Even if he doesn't get to the QB, he can effect the QB's throw by casting a large shadow in his path, he can reach up and swat a lot of balls down. Down in the red zone it's hard for a QB to throw over him to make tight window throws. He also plays a lot of special teams. He's a unique player because of his freakishly long arms, he is a big reason they get off the field on third downs.

 

[Wozzy]

The Pats are returning basically the same exact defensive line as last year... plus Keion White.

Last year they ranked #1 in the entire NFL in fewest rushing touchdowns allowed. They gave up the 6th fewest rushing yards, with the 4th lowest yards per carry average in the entire league. They had the 3rd most sacks in the entire NFL.

All this ^ with an offense that was dead weight.

Imagine an offense that could sustain drives, allow the defense to rest and give them better field position?

Health provided they should be a top five defense once again... especially if the offense doesn't suck.

 

[stinkypete]

I don't see Guy as a near lock at all.

I would agree if DMac stuck around for another year. I think Guy sticks around only for the leadership role. He may wind up in the Anthony Pleasant role as the 6th or 7th guy (no pun intended) in the rotation.

 

[State]

The supply of kickers and punters far exceeds the demand. Something Belichick doesn’t act upon. A guy with an even bigger leg and was drafted by the Bills just last year in the sixth round is not in the league.

Legally, Matt Azaira is not guilty of any crime—unlike current players I could name. Frank Clark. Joe Mixon. Being accused of a crime doesn’t mean one is guilty.

It’s not that we don’t need these kickers. I’m the case of the Maryland kicker we gave up the opportunity of taking a LT. Our tackles are mediocre at best.

 

[mgteich]

The supply of kickers and punters far exceeds the demand. Something Belichick doesn’t act upon. A guy with an even bigger leg and was drafted by the Bills just last year in the sixth round is not in the league.

Legally, Matt Azaira is not guilty of any crime—unlike current players I could name. Frank Clark. Joe Mixon. Being accused of a crime doesn’t mean one is guilty.

It’s not that we don’t need these kickers. I’m the case of the Maryland kicker we gave up the opportunity of taking a LT. Our tackles are mediocre at best.

The fact that our OT's are mediocre and the kids (Strange and Sow) may or may not have a future at OT, does NOT mean that Belichick thought that any OT available when the kicker was chosen had much of a chance of making the roster. The OT class may have been great for the mediots, but not for Belichick and most of the GM's. I don't think that Belichick had much interest in anyone after the first two were drafted. There were others than Belichick might have brought in but certainly not instead of Gonzales and White. After that, picking a patriot OT was only for the fan message board. I doubt that Belichick had any of them on his board when the 2nd round was over.

 

[DaBruinz]

The supply of kickers and punters far exceeds the demand. Something Belichick doesn’t act upon. A guy with an even bigger leg and was drafted by the Bills just last year in the sixth round is not in the league.

Really? Belichick doesn't act upon the supply of kickers/Punters exceeding demand. That's one of the most asinine things you've ever said. Especially since I can point to numerous times they've carried an extra kicker or punter on the PS. Palardy was on the PS last year before Bailey was finally IRed. The Pats carried. Tristan Vizcaino had 2 seperate multi-week stints on the PS. Quinn Nordin spent a good portion of the 2021 season on the Pats PS. In 2020, Nick Folk started on the Pats PS and was signed to the "53" because of "Gost" being injured.

Also, the Pats tried out several punters last year before settling on Palardy for the PS.

It's your own bias that doesn't allow you to understand that the Patriots have certain criteria that they look for in kickers and punters. Criteria that they know and we, as fans, do not. The sooner you come to acknowledge and accept it, the more likely you are to not waste so much energy defending the indefensible.

Legally, Matt Azaira is not guilty of any crime—unlike current players I could name. Frank Clark. Joe Mixon. Being accused of a crime doesn’t mean one is guilty.

LEGALLY doesn't matter. The fact is that Ariaza was named as one of the main culprits in a gang rape of a young woman. Ask Christian Peters if "legally guilty" matters to the Patriots. Ask Willie Andrews if "legally guilty" matters. The Pats had a punter 10-15 years ago on their PS who got into a fight with his dad while they were both in Boston. They were arrested. The Pats cut him.

The Patriots have a history of not caring about innocence or guilt when it comes to Sexual Assault. This goes back to Kraft's 1st wife, who was a big supporter of charities that helped survivors or Sexual Assault and DV.

It’s not that we don’t need these kickers. I’m the case of the Maryland kicker we gave up the opportunity of taking a LT. Our tackles are mediocre at best.

Your analysis is noted. However that and $5 will get me a large DD coffee.
Again, You can't be bothered to consider that the Patriots very likely felt that the OT available in the 4th round were not upgrades over what they had. And that includes Dawand Jones.

 

[PatsFan2]

White and a healthy Barmore could have this defensive line dominating.

White and Wise both are good on the edge against the run but better inside against the pass. I think you will see a lot of those two creating a bunch of different looks for opposing offenses.

We might not need to Blitz Often with that Front because we have guys who can bring it individually. That gives a Defense a distinct advantage and they can get creative on the back end. I love this Defensive Draft BB knows we have a very Tough Schedule on paper playing the Iron of the league.

 

[mgteich]

Again, You can't be bothered to consider that the Patriots very likely felt that the OT available in the 4th round were not upgrades over what they had. And that includes Dawand Jones.

this

 

[Real fan 02]

Who is taking his spot?

A'shawn Robinson is still out there... he'd be a perfect patriots interior line man..

 

[Real fan 02]

We might not need to Blitz Often with that Front because we have guys who can bring it individually. That gives a Defense a distinct advantage and they can get creative on the back end. I love this Defensive Draft BB knows we have a very Tough Schedule on paper playing the Iron of the league.

And we have Gonzalez to lock up teams #1s in the secondary. That definitely allows our DEs to fire off the ball without mayo having to send blitz packages.. I'll agree the draft was definitely done with the schedule in mind and in particular our own division.. to me I feel us and jets have the 2 best defenses in the AFC.

 

[DaBruinz]

The draft was done to improve the team as a whole. Improving the defense by adding a bonafide #1 CB helps the Pats across ALL games, regardless of opponent.

- Gonzalez - Offsets the addition of Rodgers to the Jets. The Packers barely beat the Pats last year. The Jets O-line isn't nearly as good. Cobb and Lazar are no Waddle/Hill , Higgins/Chase, or even Samuel/Aiyuk.

- White - Adding White to a mix of one of the best pressuring Defenses in the league should allow them to continue bring the heat.

- Mapu - A LB/S hybrid. His college coach made him the "ROVER" and changed the defense to maximize the kids talents. He had 4 interceptions and 10 PBUs as a Junior and another 2 Ints/4PBUs as a senior. So he's got the skills that many have been pining for in a guy to cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield. They could, theoretically, roll out there Mapu, Dugger, Mills, Phillips, Peppers, Gonzalez, Jack Jones, Jon Jones, Barmore, Wise, and Judon.

- Baringer - kid got tips on adjusting his Punting at the Senior Bowl and his average hang time was over 4.7 seconds with a couple hitting 5. That included on directional punts. If he does that during the season, I wouldn't be surprised if he has the fewest returned punts in league history.

- Ryland - Considered either the best or 2nd best kicker in the draft. Booming leg. The big issue will be whether or not he can do kick-offs the way BB tells him to. Such as floating some to inside the 10 so that the coverage unit can pin the returner inside the 20.. Would be nice not to over-tax the punter by forcing the punter to do double-duty.

I'm excited because I don't foresee the same special teams blunders occurring this year as the last 2 and I expect the defense, barring injuries, to be even better.

 

[mgteich]

They could, theoretically, roll out there Mapu, Dugger, Mills, Phillips, Peppers, Gonzalez, Jack Jones, Jon Jones, Barmore, Wise, and Judon.

I would prefer to have White on the field, rather than on the bench.

 

[Real fan 02]

The draft was done to improve the team as a whole. Improving the defense by adding a bonafide #1 CB helps the Pats across ALL games, regardless of opponent.

- Gonzalez - Offsets the addition of Rodgers to the Jets. The Packers barely beat the Pats last year. The Jets O-line isn't nearly as good. Cobb and Lazar are no Waddle/Hill , Higgins/Chase, or even Samuel/Aiyuk.

- White - Adding White to a mix of one of the best pressuring Defenses in the league should allow them to continue bring the heat.

- Mapu - A LB/S hybrid. His college coach made him the "ROVER" and changed the defense to maximize the kids talents. He had 4 interceptions and 10 PBUs as a Junior and another 2 Ints/4PBUs as a senior. So he's got the skills that many have been pining for in a guy to cover TEs and RBs out of the backfield. They could, theoretically, roll out there Mapu, Dugger, Mills, Phillips, Peppers, Gonzalez, Jack Jones, Jon Jones, Barmore, Wise, and Judon.

- Baringer - kid got tips on adjusting his Punting at the Senior Bowl and his average hang time was over 4.7 seconds with a couple hitting 5. That included on directional punts. If he does that during the season, I wouldn't be surprised if he has the fewest returned punts in league history.

- Ryland - Considered either the best or 2nd best kicker in the draft. Booming leg. The big issue will be whether or not he can do kick-offs the way BB tells him to. Such as floating some to inside the 10 so that the coverage unit can pin the returner inside the 20.. Would be nice not to over-tax the punter by forcing the punter to do double-duty.

I'm excited because I don't foresee the same special teams blunders occurring this year as the last 2 and I expect the defense, barring injuries, to be even better.

Agree 100%.. the DNA of a Patriots defense has always been the presence of a lock down corner. Gonzalez fits every bit of that! Special teams absolutely!! I Expect them with the additions and having Marcus Jones as well will have us elite in that area!

 

[State]

The fact that our OT's are mediocre and the kids (Strange and Sow) may or may not have a future at OT, does NOT mean that Belichick thought that any OT available when the kicker was chosen had much of a chance of making the roster.

Wrong. He just gets too impatient with kickers and takes them too early.

You will be seeing Carter Warren starting for the Jets at LT.

The idea he couldn’t make the 53 here in New England is laughable. Dude was taken several rounds lower because of his injury last year.

But since we passed on Broderick Jones you would have thought Bill Belichick would have had a plan B.

1) Try to trade up for Steen from Alabama in the third.
2) Take a developmental LT at 120.

Considering our only pure LT is Calvin Anderson—Reiff is a good locker room guy and filler for a year and Trent Brown should strictly be considered a RT with his diminishing physical skills and lackadaisical temperament—this is going to cause problems.

Unless Sidy Sow comes to the rescue. And I don’t count him out at LT.

So I hope I have to eat my words.

 

[DaBruinz]

Wrong. He just gets too impatient with kickers and takes them too early.

Fact: Belichick has never drafted a kicker above the 4th round. It's not like he took Ryland in the 2nd round or something..
Fact: Many people claim that Belichick is too lenient with Kickers/Punters. People were calling for Gostkowski to be cut because of one off year. People said Bailey should be cut after his injury plagued year in 2021.

Looks like you're the one who's wrong.

You will be seeing Carter Warren starting for the Jets at LT.

If we are, that speaks to the lack of talent on their team more than Warren's ability.

The idea he couldn’t make the 53 here in New England is laughable. Dude was taken several rounds lower because of his injury last year.

But since we passed on Broderick Jones you would have thought Bill Belichick would have had a plan B.

1) Try to trade up for Steen from Alabama in the third.
2) Take a developmental LT at 120.

Considering our only pure LT is Calvin Anderson—Reiff is a good locker room guy and filler for a year and Trent Brown should strictly be considered a RT with his diminishing physical skills and lackadaisical temperament—this is going to cause problems.

Unless Sidy Sow comes to the rescue. And I don’t count him out at LT.

So I hope I have to eat my words.

You have no clue what Brown's issues were last year. For all you know, he had issues with Patricia the same as Bourne. Just that the Pats OT depth was shot and they didn't have anyone to put there if they benched Brown.

Like others, you have completely ignored the idea that you've over-valued the talent that was available at OT outside of the top 4 while also ignoring that B'OB could have easily felt that Steen wasn't better than what the Patriots currently have.

I think it's as likely that Cole Strange starts at LT as Sidy Sow does.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

I think it's as likely that Cole Strange starts at LT as Sidy Sow does.

View attachment 51138

If Cole Strange puts on 20 to 30 pounds from Y1 to Y2, I agree. Otherwise Strange will be a guard. Notice the RED in RAS comparison.

 

[p8ryts]

A'shawn Robinson is still out there... he'd be a perfect patriots interior line man..

He signed with the Giants 4/23/2023