2022 OL

[mgteich]

A new GM - especially on draft weekend - and, most importantly: Two New Starting Offensive Tackles for 2023, plus TWO MORE OTs as Real Depth.

We have had one of the best drafts in the NFL for the last two years.

 

[Pape]

I've said this earlier... And now it's been born out... Having Matt P play OL coach was and is a bad idea... It doesn't appear that Billy Yates is savvy enough (yet?) to make adjustments as needed in game...

It looked like we got a reprieve over the last few games, but when it gets to be tough sledding, ish just falls apart...

The coaching staff needs to be expanded... Won't happen during the season ( it should, but it won't) but this coming off season it has to happen... Not enough butter is being scraped over too much bread...

 

[AQPE]

Brown looks old getting older at times. His slide and explosion is still there but a lot more inconsistent. That's such a huge part of his game along with his length. He's able to eliminate so much outside while not exposing himself that much inside off a normal jump set or we.
Wynn on the other hand has been caught short stepping not bc of age or talent but neither tackle looks 1000% comfortable exploding without worry. You see it more on Wynn, a lot more but it's there on Brown too. Strange has got progressively better. Still a good starting G among all starters flashing some special traits. He reminds me so much of Joe playing at that weight, undersized and figuring a lot of pass pro out with bigger guys as he goes. Him and Brown look more comfortable communicating or handling games and he's reaching marks before defenders get there most times. Makimg contact easier on the move/pulling.

Onwenu has been our best OL'm. Keep him at G and you might have a legit top 5-10 G someday. Like he's been one of our best players regardless of position.

Andrews is good but we absolutely could upgrade there and probably should. Our IOL could be special.

Wynn and Brown have like 12 flags between them. Everyone else has 1 maybe Andrews 2 but I believe 1. I could be wrong.

So Mac has played like 22-23 games and has like 24-25 TO including fumbles. And our tackles are inconsistent and drawing killer flags. Yes a lot more Wynn but still the flags are killing us. We're not good enough to overcome those.

Anyway the two most important positions/units have underperformed in huge ways after expected jumps and seemingly some continuity on the OL.

Those two things have to change. Ask yourself how many games you're going to win when your QB TO and Tackles are drawing big flags every game.

This is why I've come to the opinion that this is simply a bridge year, and why OT is the #1 priority for the offseason (a take that I know many others here have also expressed, but I did post this opinion 3 weeks ago before the "Zappe era"). They have an aging, injury-prone LT, a screwed up mentally injury-prone RT, two injury-prone backup OTs, and some kid from the 7th round that hasn't put on pads yet so far as I know and wasn't anything special IMHO in college ball. A hot mess that I think has contributed a lot to what we see from Mac, not to absolve him by any means.

My main hope now is that Mac isn't mentally shot by the time the season ends. He has to grow the hell up like right now and focus on what he does well, if that's even possible with the stupid way they are trying to force him to go long constantly.

Either way it goes for Mac, priority #2 this offseason in my mind is for BB to hit the reset button on his offensive coaching staff and associated philosophy. I am of the opinion that Patricia is better suited to be the "new Ernie" but that BB concluded there wasn't a better option for the offense after McDaniels left. BB needs to spend some time before the offseason comes about a path forward for the offense, including whether that will include Mac, and make strong moves as quickly as possible as soon as this season ends.

 

[Joker]

Zappe has the size to be a competent back-up. A decade younger Hoyer. Mac will get his shot to prove he's a starting, winning QB the rest of this season. His agent, however, is already floating the idea that the Pats trade his client before the 2023 combine. LaConfora among others has already started the leak fest..

NFL GM has a hot take about Mac Jones' future with Patriots

The discourse surrounding Mac Jones and the Patriots' quarterback situation has reached another level, with one NFL general manager believing that the second-year QB may not last in New England.

www.nbcsports.com

2023----tons of cap...draft a Mahomes/Allen/Herbert/Burrow clone...build around him and look for a dominant team in 2 or 3 years. I'm willing to live through a build like this.

 

[mgteich]

This is why I've come to the opinion that this is simply a bridge year, and why OT is the #1 priority for the offseason (a take that I know many others here have also expressed, but I did post this opinion 3 weeks ago before the "Zappe era"). They have an aging, injury-prone LT, a screwed up mentally injury-prone RT, two injury-prone backup OTs, and some kid from the 7th round that hasn't put on pads yet so far as I know and wasn't anything special IMHO in college ball. A hot mess that I think has contributed a lot to what we see from Mac, not to absolve him by any means.

My main hope now is that Mac isn't mentally shot by the time the season ends. He has to grow the hell up like right now and focus on what he does well, if that's even possible with the stupid way they are trying to force him to go long constantly.

Either way it goes for Mac, priority #2 this offseason in my mind is for BB to hit the reset button on his offensive coaching staff and associated philosophy. I am of the opinion that Patricia is better suited to be the "new Ernie" but that BB concluded there wasn't a better option for the offense after McDaniels left. BB needs to spend some time before the offseason comes about a path forward for the offense, including whether that will include Mac, and make strong moves as quickly as possible as soon as this season ends.

Do you mean that Brown is old and in his last year, and, therefore, OT is our #1, #2 and #3 targets for 2023. None of our OT's are under contract.

 

[Sciz]

Do you mean that Brown is old and in his last year, and, therefore, OT is our #1, #2 and #3 targets for 2023. None of our OT's are under contract.

Brown is under contract. In fact, they’ll have to bench him within the next few weeks if they don’t want to keep him under contract, because ¾ of his 2023 salary becomes guaranteed if he plays 75% of the offensive snaps this season. He’s currently at 100%.

 

[AQPE]

Do you mean that Brown is old and in his last year, and, therefore, OT is our #1, #2 and #3 targets for 2023. None of our OT's are under contract.

Brown is signed through next season so I expect them to keep him. I would be fine with that if they have his successor on the roster next year. Although he is only 29 his injury history is more my concern than age, so “aging” was probably not a good word choice there, but the fact that he hit the open market and came back on a 2 year deal is some indication that he isn’t a player one would expect to be there for a very long time.

So yes, I want to see them greatly upgrade the OT position this offseason. I think it is the top priority for their roster, just not in the way you put it in your reply to me. I expect Wynn is going to be gone so that leaves Cannon, Cajuste, and Steuber from the current roster. They need to inject talent there, through free agency and/or the draft, without overpaying or overdrafting as they obviously have lots of other needs to address. Whoever winds up at QB needs to be in a lot better position going forward with his OL. I’m not totally sold on Mac and certainly not on Zappe but I see enough with each of them to feel they can be solid, and in Mac‘s case more than solid, if they are not in scramble mode as much as they seem to be currently.

I went back and forth in my post above about whether I feel the talent or the coaching is the #1 priority. I went with talent because at the end of the day it’s about what the players can get themselves to do. However, I’m concerned about their recent problems accomplishing things I’d expect from coaching; in particular I don’t think they are doing a good enough job developing young players or keeping penalties and turnovers to a minimum by molding their schemes to the talent they have.

 

[upstater1]

Brown looks old getting older at times. His slide and explosion is still there but a lot more inconsistent. That's such a huge part of his game along with his length. He's able to eliminate so much outside while not exposing himself that much inside off a normal jump set or we.
Wynn on the other hand has been caught short stepping not bc of age or talent but neither tackle looks 1000% comfortable exploding without worry. You see it more on Wynn, a lot more but it's there on Brown too. Strange has got progressively better. Still a good starting G among all starters flashing some special traits. He reminds me so much of Joe playing at that weight, undersized and figuring a lot of pass pro out with bigger guys as he goes. Him and Brown look more comfortable communicating or handling games and he's reaching marks before defenders get there most times. Makimg contact easier on the move/pulling.

Onwenu has been our best OL'm. Keep him at G and you might have a legit top 5-10 G someday. Like he's been one of our best players regardless of position.

Andrews is good but we absolutely could upgrade there and probably should. Our IOL could be special.

Wynn and Brown have like 12 flags between them. Everyone else has 1 maybe Andrews 2 but I believe 1. I could be wrong.

So Mac has played like 22-23 games and has like 24-25 TO including fumbles. And our tackles are inconsistent and drawing killer flags. Yes a lot more Wynn but still the flags are killing us. We're not good enough to overcome those.

Anyway the two most important positions/units have underperformed in huge ways after expected jumps and seemingly some continuity on the OL.

Those two things have to change. Ask yourself how many games you're going to win when your QB TO and Tackles are drawing big flags every game.

I know people hate me for saying this but the flags Brown and Wynn are drawing are more due to ref incompetence than bad play.

Yes, there's a bit of holding, but then the other team comes on the field, Judon has an arm around his throat as he's being tackled, and there's no call. Same thing happened to Brown this week that's been happening to Wynn. The Patriots tackles seem to have a rep with the refs that other tackles don't have.

I forgive both of them. LOL

 

[captain stone]

I know people hate me for saying this but the flags Brown and Wynn are drawing are more due to ref incompetence than bad play.

Yes, there's a bit of holding, but then the other team comes on the field, Judon has an arm around his throat as he's being tackled, and there's no call. Same thing happened to Brown this week that's been happening to Wynn. The Patriots tackles seem to have a rep with the refs that other tackles don't have.

You're not wrong here.

 

[Pape]

Judon has an arm around his throat as he's being tackled, and there's no call.

this ish happens over and over and over.... The Patriots need to send a low-light clip of this phenomenon to the league office with a bright penalty-flag yellow sticky on it with a note saying wtf, no flags????

 

[AQPE]

A note like that to 245 Park Avenue would result in big smiles and high fives; frustrating BB is clearly on their annual performance review goals and objectives. They are scum and will only do more if they think they are getting to him. It sucks cause they suck.

 

[Pape]

A note like that to 245 Park Avenue would result in big smiles and high fives; frustrating BB is clearly on their annual performance review goals and objectives. They are scum and will only do more if they think they are getting to him. It sucks cause they suck.

345 park ave... pretty sure the folks at 245 aren't intentionally interfering with BB

lol

 

[mgteich]

Brown is signed through next season so I expect them to keep him. I would be fine with that if they have his successor on the roster next year. Although he is only 29 his injury history is more my concern than age, so “aging” was probably not a good word choice there, but the fact that he hit the open market and came back on a 2 year deal is some indication that he isn’t a player one would expect to be there for a very long time.

So yes, I want to see them greatly upgrade the OT position this offseason. I think it is the top priority for their roster, just not in the way you put it in your reply to me. I expect Wynn is going to be gone so that leaves Cannon, Cajuste, and Steuber from the current roster. They need to inject talent there, through free agency and/or the draft, without overpaying or overdrafting as they obviously have lots of other needs to address. Whoever winds up at QB needs to be in a lot better position going forward with his OL. I’m not totally sold on Mac and certainly not on Zappe but I see enough with each of them to feel they can be solid, and in Mac‘s case more than solid, if they are not in scramble mode as much as they seem to be currently.

I went back and forth in my post above about whether I feel the talent or the coaching is the #1 priority. I went with talent because at the end of the day it’s about what the players can get themselves to do. However, I’m concerned about their recent problems accomplishing things I’d expect from coaching; in particular I don’t think they are doing a good enough job developing young players or keeping penalties and turnovers to a minimum by molding their schemes to the talent they have.

fair enough
You may very well be right with regard to coaching, although moving and keeping Wynn at RT is truly a questionable coaching decision. For me, some of fault of having OT's with lots of penalties has to be charged to coaching.
===================
So, going into 2023, we have
Brown
Cannon
Cajuste
Steuber

Your analysis seems to be that this is certainly a position to focus on, but that there are other, perhaps more important ways to spend or resources.
We should be very careful not to "overpay" for an OT.
=================================
For me, using a 1st rounder (even if we trade up or down) is NOT overpaying for this position, unless the team is planning to draft a QB.
Signing a top free agent at market prices is also NOT overpaying for this position.

It is just possible that the team believes that Cajuste is a starting RT or that our pro-bowl quality RG will be our RT (then of course we need a couple OG's).

 

[TomPatriot]

You're not wrong here.

That could be a coaching thing. Didn’t happen much when Scar coached in NE. There’s a bit of an art to OL blocking.

 

[TomPatriot]

A note like that to 245 Park Avenue would result in big smiles and high fives; frustrating BB is clearly on their annual performance review goals and objectives. They are scum and will only do more if they think they are getting to him. It sucks cause they suck.

It’s 345 Park but having been forced to deal with a few of the folks there, I take no issue with the rest of your post.

 

[captain stone]

So, going into 2023, we have

Brown
Cannon
Cajuste
Steuber


It is just possible that the team believes that Cajuste is a starting RT or that our pro-bowl quality RG will be our RT (then of course we need a couple OG's).

Neither Cannon nor Cachoo are signed for 2023.

 

[mgteich]

Neither Cannon nor Cachoo are signed for 2023.

You are right of course. I was thinking of Brown-Cannon-Cajuste-Steuber-mild upgrade as what AQPE was suggesting.
==========
We have an oft-injured Brown and a 7th rounder with no experience.

To me, moving Wynn to RT was close to gross negligence. The coaches had lots of film, all of the camps and pre-season. That is, if they didn't know what others suspected from the beginning. Wynn is not a RT. They will be lucky to get more than a 6th unless they pay part of the bill (by turning some his salary into a bonus). They could have at least consulted with Dante. Given the current circumstance and that they would not keep as a backup LT/LG, then they should have traded him before the season started.
=========
BTW, did the team even activate all the players they could, or did they play a player short with only 7 OL's?

 

[TomPatriot]

To me, moving Wynn to RT was close to gross negligence. The coaches had lots of film, all of the camps and pre-season. That is, if they didn't know what others suspected from the beginning. Wynn is not a RT.

Plus, Brown was pretty happy and better at RT. Not so happy and not better at LT.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

You are right of course. I was thinking of Brown-Cannon-Cajuste-Steuber-mild upgrade as what AQPE was suggesting.
==========
We have an oft-injured Brown and a 7th rounder with no experience.

To me, moving Wynn to RT was close to gross negligence. The coaches had lots of film, all of the camps and pre-season. That is, if they didn't know what others suspected from the beginning. Wynn is not a RT. They will be lucky to get more than a 6th unless they pay part of the bill (by turning some his salary into a bonus). They could have at least consulted with Dante. Given the current circumstance and that they would not keep as a backup LT/LG, then they should have traded him before the season started.
=========
BTW, did the team even activate all the players they could, or did they play a player short with only 7 OL's?

Wynn's issues are on him and his lack of effort/concentration. LT is a more important position than RT. Brown was better than Wynn and beat him out for LT. The choice for Wynn was to move to RT or sit on the bench as backup LT. It is fair to expect that Wynn would be affected by changing positions. Leading the league in penalties and playing like a turnstile is him not trying because he was not happy with the switch.

 

[State]

Everyone is talking of other hit-button sexier issues, but my focus is on the center position. If Thanksdad (Captain Stone’s apt moniker) plays at center, we are at “game over” stage at the game’s beginning.

If I were the Jests, I’d attack him.