2018 Offensive Line discussion

[mgteich]

If this report is true the Patriots really want to fix the inside of their O-line.
More evidence that Wynn may start at guard. This means Cannon and Brown at tackle.

Patriots reportedly tried to trade up in the draft | Boston.com

Why is relevant that we tried to trade up for a center?

 

[catent]

Why is relevant that we tried to trade up for a center?

Belichick tends to speak highly of David Andrews but he seems to have been the weak link at times, in part due to his lack of size and strength. Thuney also struggled in this regard recently, and although I think Mason is a solid guard, he is suspect in pass blocking at times. I tend to think, though, that Mason is the most likely of the aforementioned three players to continue starting.

I would be curious about starting Ted Karrass at center. In his limited number of snaps there he has appeared better than Andrews to my naked eye.

Brown - Wynn - Karrass - Mason - Cannon, perhaps?

Or maybe they have plans to try Thuney or Wynn at center? Maybe one of the free agent signings surprises and finds his way into a starting role.

The only thing I'm relatively certain of is that Brown will be at LT and Cannon at RT, but I could be totally wrong on that.

 

[Deus Irae]

Wynn is a better all around player than both Mason & Thuney. 100%

Not likely

It's not likely that he's better than both of them at this time. That may change moving forward.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

This is probably mason’s last year in New England and he did give up the strip sack in the bowl!

Adams of Washington will be in the 2019 draft!

Wynn should be our starting left tackle in 2018.

 

[DropKickFlutie]

Couple more interesting tidbits, it's more relevant for the O-line discussion

1. Sony Michel ran for 1250 yards at a ridiculous 7.9 ypc all season. I thought this was a typo but it's true. He did this, similar yardage as Barkley, with a RB tandem teammate
2. Michel and Chubb are the most accomplished rushing RB tandem in draft history

The best college RB duos in NFL Draft history, now with Chubb/Michel

3. Drafting Wynn was like drafting the elite OL run blocker that created this record RB rushing tandem.
It reminds me very much of back when Drew Brees was an all time passing leader at Purdue, and then the Patriots drafted his left tackle in Matt Light.....



.

 

[supafly]

I just hope Dante is NOT considering retirement anytime soon...

Well, he already retired once, and there was some hesitation about whether he’d even be back for 2018, so I’m not sure what your definition of “soon” is, but I don’t think he’s going to be here more than the next couple of years, at best.

Dante Scarnecchia noncommittal when asked about returning next season

 

[luuked]

Er, i didn't say that in a single line... I used the hands and reach for an example, not point

My point is that overall size is just used as a proxy because it correlates well with more important things like arm length. However, as far as I understand Wynn has the same arm length as Logan Mankins who was 2 inches taller. Now I know that arm length is obviously not the end all and be all but I think as with all measurables you have to dig deeper and understand why they are important than just looking at whether a player meets a historic cutoff or not to dismiss him.

 

[AzorianPats]

Couple more interesting tidbits, it's more relevant for the O-line discussion

1. Sony Michel ran for 1250 yards at a ridiculous 7.9 ypc all season. I thought this was a typo but it's true. He did this, similar yardage as Barkley, with a RB tandem teammate
2. Michel and Chubb are the most accomplished rushing RB tandem in draft history

The best college RB duos in NFL Draft history, now with Chubb/Michel

3. Drafting Wynn was like drafting the elite OL run blocker that created this record RB rushing tandem.
It reminds me very much of back when Drew Brees was an all time passing leader at Purdue, and then the Patriots drafted his left tackle in Matt Light.....



.

And Matt Light is not that much bigger than Wynn .

End of the day, whether it was Tackle or Guard Wynn was a beast in the SEC .No reason not to believe he won't do the same at the pros .

 

[YOUGOTMOSSED]

Then there's the LT, and, until proven completely wrong, I just cant trust a 6'2'' guy in there. Like, i actually get nightmares of people simply swimming past him like Michael Phelps in the Olympics. However, i really like Trent Brown. I think he was pretty good when defending JG in SF

Why exactly does height matter for the LT position?

Your basic job is to stand in someone's way or push them back. Your height is a measurement of the distance between the top of your head and the ground. What does that have to do with your job at LT?

 

[Brandon_Cox]

And if the day, whether it was Tackle or Guard Wynn was a beast in the SEC .No reason not to believe he won't do the same at the pros .

I agree that Wynn was a good pick and has a good chance to be a quality pro. But this argument about the SEC almost being the junior NFL is way overstated. The SEC had 3 dominant teams: Alabama, Georgia and Auburn. The rest of the league was a hot mess, especially the SEC East which completely sucked besides UGA. Georgia played three excellent opponents - Auburn twice and Alabama once - and one decent one in Notre Dame. The rest of their schedule was a joke. Wynn evidently played well against everyone, but most of their opponents sucked.

 

[Uptown]

 

[mgteich]

Belichick moved down a round a half to get us a 1 year veteran swing OT. I think this to be a fine value. However, I don't see why he I now automatically our starting LT, although that could certainly happen.

For me, Waddle has moved from starter to competing with Brown, Garcia, and Tobin for the role of one of the 3 OT's active each week.

 

[Deus Irae]

Andy Hart is guessing that the battle for the starting LT spot (for game 1) will be between Waddle, Brown and Wynn. He's calling Garcia a wild card that he considers more likely to be competing later on in the season, due to his still being on the road to recovery.

 

[Hyped]

Can you explain to me what exactly would be the difference if he were 6'4" compared to 6'2" ? And please make it not a one liner but a short explanation what it is that gives you nightmares about those 2 inches difference.

I am honestly curious.

In basketball, two inches makes a huge difference. For example, take an average 6'2" guy and compare him to an average 6'4" guy:

a.) The shoulders are 2" higher.

b.) The arms are approximately 2" longer now.

So, that is a 4" increase in reach when blocking shots or releasing a shot.

In football, I think it makes similar difference at specific positions (e.g. cornerback, wide out, and etc..). As for offensive linemen....what comes to mind:

1.) Lower base leverage...they are punching a little lower.

2.) The QB can see a bit better over their heads...less of a need to create passing lanes via blocking.

BUT there are downsides to being shorter....you have to block from a lower angle..meaning less margin of error vs. a tall guy like Solder who is "blocking downward" and cannot easily be tossed aside...

Just my 2 cents...

 

[ashley]

I'm no Dante, but I don't think Cannon should be moved to LT or guard. Keep him at RT and let him battle it out with Brown.

I'm guessing :

LT- Wynn or Brown
LG- Thuney or Wynn
C- Andrews
RG- Mason
RT- Cannon or Brown

 

[italian pat patriot]

have a nice work Dante !!!

as always...

but on paper it looks a better OL for sure

 

[DropKickFlutie]

In basketball, two inches makes a huge difference. For example, take an average 6'2" guy and compare him to an average 6'4" guy:

a.) The shoulders are 2" higher.

b.) The arms are approximately 2" longer now.

So, that is a 4" increase in reach when blocking shots or releasing a shot.

In football, I think it makes similar difference at specific positions (e.g. cornerback, wide out, and etc..). As for offensive linemen....what comes to mind:

1.) Lower base leverage...they are punching a little lower.

2.) The QB can see a bit better over their heads...less of a need to create passing lanes via blocking.

BUT there are downsides to being shorter....you have to block from a lower angle..meaning less margin of error vs. a tall guy like Solder who is "blocking downward" and cannot easily be tossed aside...

Just my 2 cents...

Yes but isn't it ALSO possible that every 10 years a guy comes in like Draymond Green or Charles Barkley or Dennis Rodman who dominates big men even though they're a couple inches short?

 

[TheRazorsEdge]

Wynns best season in Gerogia came at LT...arguably the season that got him picked at 23. You dont go changing things around now. We have fierce competition for the tackle position now which is a total 180 from just a month ago.

If the scouting reports dont lie.. Wynn might end up one of the steals of the draft.

 

[NormZauchin]

Couple more interesting tidbits, it's more relevant for the O-line discussion

1. Sony Michel ran for 1250 yards at a ridiculous 7.9 ypc all season. I thought this was a typo but it's true. He did this, similar yardage as Barkley, with a RB tandem teammate
2. Michel and Chubb are the most accomplished rushing RB tandem in draft history

The best college RB duos in NFL Draft history, now with Chubb/Michel

3. Drafting Wynn was like drafting the elite OL run blocker that created this record RB rushing tandem.
It reminds me very much of back when Drew Brees was an all time passing leader at Purdue, and then the Patriots drafted his left tackle in Matt Light.....



.

Back in the 80's, the Pats landed Craig James of the SMU "Pony Express" duo, Eric ****erson being the other back. James was good, ****erson awesome. Hope we got the better of the two runners this time.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Wynns best season in Gerogia came at LT...arguably the season that got him picked at 23. You dont go changing things around now. We have fierce competition for the tackle position now which is a total 180 from just a month ago.

If the scouting reports dont lie.. Wynn might end up one of the steals of the draft.

I ended up putting him in the G category but he absolutely has what it takes to be a great Tackle. Sometimes its a clear case of a pass rusher that will play linebacker but in Wynn's case he was just so good at both. The word is thrown around too much but he brings real versatility & excelled at both positions. Made a gut cal but I feel more than confident he lives up to the scouting report & more. He might be the best OL'm we've drafted during this run.

Plays with an aggressive edge but is that guy that mauls a defender but doesn't cross the stupid line. Well aware of what looks like a penalty. Wynn's quick feet, play strength & hands will give him a chance to win every rep.

Not sure if I had it on my first post but I agree w ashley

Wynn Thuney Andrews Mason Cannon as of now.
Waddle/Garcia Brown

Or at least that's the hope.