2017 Draft Prospect Thread

[BobDigital]

I can't seem to find the motivation to do too much draft stuff these days until I know for sure what Pics the Pats will have. I assume they will trade Butler for something (maybe still trade JAG) but I'd like to see where they pop up. I think that will be a help.

Right now I have a feeling Cunningham is going to fall. BB seems to like him. While I don't love the tape it isn't bad either and certainly he comes off as a top 2 round player. One thing I do love about his game is he understands the value of tackling backwards. By this I mean you see a lot of guys in the NFL just look to apply any tackle they can. Often they tackle to the side and the guy falls forward or falls on him from behind and the tackle carries him forward.

Cunningham actually wraps you and then throws you back. It is a small thing but it saves a yard here and a yard there and those yards add up over the course of a season. That is the one thing I like about his game the most.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

One of the more interesting aspects of following the draft is seeing the rise of some of these prospects:



Kevin King, Zay Jones, and Tyus Bowser in round 1. Remember when they could be had in rounds 3-4?

How about in early February when Reddick was discount Reuben Foster. He might be drafted above him.

Hopefully Basham's rise from rounds 4-5 to late round 2 stops there.

If it takes the 11th pick in the draft to get Haason Reddick, you should be trading back.

And as hard as I have been throughout the draft process on Foster, if you take Reddick over him, you deserve to lose your job.

 

[manxman2601]

If it takes the 11th pick in the draft to get Haason Reddick, you should be trading back.

And as hard as I have been throughout the draft process on Foster, if you take Reddick over him, you deserve to lose your job.

Not if you're not happy with lingering injury issues and his self-entitled character traits.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Not if you're not happy with lingering injury issues and his self-entitled character traits.

Character traits go both way on it. Reddick isn't a Boy Scout.

 

[manxman2601]

Character traits go both way on it. Reddick isn't a Boy Scout.

He's also very athletic and more versatile than Foster. I'd be tempted to take him ahead of Foster.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

He's also very athletic and more versatile than Foster. I'd be tempted to take him ahead of Foster.

He's also going to be asked to do things he's never done. I love the traits, but there's no way I am going that high on straight potential.

With Foster, you at least know his floor. I don't know how you go that high with someone who is playing a new position day 1. Whether he has the traits or not, you have to do an awful lot of projecting.

 

[manxman2601]

He's also going to be asked to do things he's never done. I love the traits, but there's no way I am going that high on straight potential.

With Foster, you at least know his floor. I don't know how you go that high with someone who is playing a new position day 1. Whether he has the traits or not, you have to do an awful lot of projecting.

This game is all about projecting though. I've never really been a floor guy. I tend to scout based upon traits and upside and Reddick, to date, has shown he's up to the transition.

 

[manxman2601]

This is my linebacker anyway, injury issues notwithstanding.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

@BaconGrundleCandy posted this the other day. Pretty eye-opening about Foster. The details about his lack of ability to diagram plays is pretty crazy for a top prospect. Still, he's a good football player, and I think he can have a Patrick Willis type of impact on a defense.

Reuben Foster: His Talent, His Upbringing and Questions | The MMQB with Peter King

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

This game is all about projecting though. I've never really been a floor guy. I tend to scout based upon traits and upside and Reddick, to date, has shown he's up to the transition.

Upside is what we all get excited about, but projection is about the possibility of those traits playing out. Floor is important because it states what a player can do today, with firm data. Projection is about what they can grow in to. We have an awful lot more of the former for Foster, and an awful lot of the latter for Reddick.

All I am saying, at 11, you better have a very firm grasp of what you are getting. I don't know how can do that accurately with Reddick. A little further down with less risk attached, it's more necessary to take those risks. At 11, I want as clean a prospect as possible, and really, I am not touching either at that stage.

 

[manxman2601]

Upside is what we all get excited about, but projection is about the possibility of those traits playing out. Floor is important because it states what a player can do today, with firm data. Projection is about what they can grow in to. We have an awful lot more of the former for Foster, and an awful lot of the latter for Reddick.

All I am saying, at 11, you better have a very firm grasp of what you are getting. I don't know how can do that accurately with Reddick. A little further down with less risk attached, it's more necessary to take those risks. At 11, I want as clean a prospect as possible, and really, I am not touching either at that stage.

So who would you touch at 11. There aren't many "clean" prospects there. There's one year wonders in Charlton and Hooker, injury concerns with the likes of Lattimore, positional concerns (Soloman Thomas) etc. The cleanest prospect is OJ Howard. I think we have a different philosophical approach. At 11 I want the best NFL/Patriots player player possible and I'm fine with projecting upside.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

So who would you touch at 11. There aren't many "clean" prospects there. There's one year wonders in Charlton and Hooker, injury concerns with the likes of Lattimore, positional concerns (Soloman Thomas) etc. The cleanest prospect is OJ Howard. I think we have a different philosophical approach. At 11 I want the best NFL/Patriots player player possible and I'm fine with projecting upside.

It's hard to know who will be available at this stage, but I would happily take each of those guys you mentioned without thinking before both Foster and Reddick.

 

[manxman2601]

It's hard to know who will be available at this stage, but I would happily take each of those guys you mentioned without thinking before both Foster and Reddick.

Personally I prefer the options at 32 rather than 11 - there's a lot of risk at 11. Give me Baker, Conley, Bowser and others. The one that does intrigue me is Marlon Humphrey. This team has lost some secondary pop in losing Ryan and, presumably, Butler. Humphrey would add physicality to the secondary although I don't know whether he's a candidate for the slot.

 

[I.M. Fletcher]

Personally I prefer the options at 32 rather than 11 - there's a lot of risk at 11. Give me Baker, Conley, Bowser and others. The one that does intrigue me is Marlon Humphrey. This team has lost some secondary pop in losing Ryan and, presumably, Butler. Humphrey would add physicality to the secondary although I don't know whether he's a candidate for the slot.

See, we do agree haha.

I like both foster and reddick a great deal, but see them both less valuable than those that many view as options at 32.

In a 150 player draft, these types of debates really comes down to how you rank players 6-60. I would probably be much more comfortable with baker and melifonwu at 11, even though most would call that crazy/dumb.

I enjoy the healthy debate that comes with disagreeing on the individual profiles.

 

[manxman2601]

See, we do agree haha.

I like both foster and reddick a great deal, but see them both less valuable than those that many view as options at 32.

In a 150 player draft, these types of debates really comes down to how you rank players 6-60. I would probably be much more comfortable with baker and melifonwu at 11, even though most would call that crazy/dumb.

I enjoy the healthy debate that comes with disagreeing on the individual profiles.

I think the options at 32 better suit our needs and there are more options there -I'm fine with getting 11 and then trading back. My issue was with the idea that putting Reddick ahead of Foster was so heinous that you should be fired for even considering it. As I have considered it, that felt a little strong.

As for Baker/Melifonwu, Baker is one of my favourite prospects. But I wouldn't take either ahead of Reddick.

But, as you say, the discussion is useful.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

This is my linebacker anyway, injury issues notwithstanding.

I love this kid. One of my favs for sure. Absolute baller.

 

[manxman2601]

Quite the list and including two Patriots. And Gareon Conley ran a 6.68. Just sayin'.

 

[manxman2601]

Quite the list and including two Patriots. And Gareon Conley ran a 6.68. Just sayin'.

As did Howard Wilson.

And:

Brian Allen, Utah
Budda Baker (almost - 6.76)
Marlon Humphrey
John Johnson
Desmond King
Kevin King
Xavier Woods

In this class alone with Baker, K King and Humphrey all potential first rounders.

 

[Ochmed Jones]

According to Mel diaper, CB Humphrey of Alabama would be there at #32. And while that hurts a lot, I'd rather have butler, even for just one more season.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

According to Mel diaper, CB Humphrey of Alabama would be there at #32. And while that hurts a lot, I'd rather have butler, even for just one more season.

I can't see it. Now that Sidney Jones is injured, who goes ahead of Humphrey? Lattimore, maybe Conley, then who? Kevin King after his incredible Combine? Maybe. Moreau? Injury questions + late riser. Most sites I've seen have Humphrey as the #2 corner in the draft.

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