2017 Draft Preview: Very deep at RBs, DEs, and DBs. Historically weak QB class

[meatface]

Me neither. I watch the big college games and I read a few articles here and there just to have an opinion.

Seems like there are only a couple guys with solid 1st rd grades.

Its all about supply and demand.

is there ever an excess number of QB's with first round grades?

 

[RobertWeathers]

is there ever an excess number of QB's with first round grades?

Certainly never an excess but there have been draft classes with several QBs w 1st Rd grades

 

[fightingirish595]

Derek Barnett. Broke Reggie White's college sack record at Tennessee (32 sacks), and he's only a junior. Tons to like about his game; his very stoutly built and plays physically. He puts some nasty hits on opposing players. He's very instinctive, and just has a natural feel for the position. Most analysts have Myles Garrett ahead of him at DE, but Garrett might go 1st overall, while there's still a chance that Barnett is available at #10. The more I watch him, the more I think he's going to be a long term starter in the NFL, and he'll probably earn a few pro bowls.

Charles Harris is another edge guy I really like. He may be available at the end of round 1, just because of the logjam ahead of him, but he has really great get off and one of the sweetest spin moves you'll see. Just take a look at this beaut:

Barnett was game wrecker this year. Gotta love that kid from a talent standpoint. Did he declare yet?


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[BaconGrundleCandy]

Barnett was game wrecker this year. Gotta love that kid from a talent standpoint. Did he declare yet?


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I don't believe so. I heard he finished his lift the other day before meeting w/ scouts. Most likely getting some info about what scouts/teams think.

 

[fightingirish595]

I don't believe so. I heard he finished his lift the other day before meeting w/ scouts. Most likely getting some info about what scouts/teams think.

Interesting, looks like a sure fire first rounder to me

 

[patchick]

People keep saying that, and it's true that there's not a premiere guy, but there are still some very serviceable players who could put together long NFL careers. I never understood why McDermott fell so much after giving up a sack and a few hurries to Garrett in the first game this year. McDermott played him pretty well for most of the game. He's got great size and athleticism. He reminds more of Solder than any tackle over the last couple years (for better or worse). We seem to like those long, rangy guys who can pull and block downfield. I wouldn't be surprised if McDermott ended up here, which seemed like an impossibility based on pre-season rankings, where he was listed as a top ten player. Now most sites don't even have him in the 2nd round! Fickle audience.

Thanks, I'll definitely delve deeper! McDermott seems like a guy who will climb in the rankings again once the postseason microscope turns toward measurables and "projectability."

 

[varjao]

Too bad JG tried to do too much on that play and got hurt, if that didn't happen he goes 4-0 with stellar performance and we get 2 first round picks,.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

I don't believe so. I heard he finished his lift the other day before meeting w/ scouts. Most likely getting some info about what scouts/teams think.

Good to know. Seems like a no brainer to declare. Top 15 pick at worst.

Harold Landry is another junior who has a decision to make. 16.5 sacks this year and a nice interception in the bowl game last night. He's in the Miller/Mack/Beasley mold, although I'm not sure if he's as athletic as that crew. Wish he had more size (listed at 6'3 #250, but looks like 6'1 #235 to me). The more edge players the merrier. Landry would be a Collins replacement, not a true DE, IMO.

Given the age and contacts for Long and Ninkovich, we should probably look to find a replacement or two soon. Grissom doesn't inspire me much. Flowers is awesome but seems to move inside on 3rd down. If we want another player like him, DeMarcus Walker looks like his clone. Similar size and relentless play, but not a dynamite athlete.

Sticking in the same conference, Duke Ejifor posted some nice numbers this year, and I think he has all the skills we look for in an edge or hybrid player. Very underrated. I like him better than Smoot, who is more explosive but less technically refined. He's probably available in the late 2nd, early 3rd range.

Purely based on body composition, Jordan Willis looks like Chandler Jones, but he seems like an incomplete athlete. Something about his movements on the field just looks wrong, like he's always struggling to keep up. That said, he put up double digit sacks and had the most hurries in the country. I'm watching him closely at the Senior Bowl and combine. Maybe he's still growing into his body and that's why he looks awkward -- occasionally he has REALLY impressive speed rushes. I had similar concerns about Jones coming out, so who knows?

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

Good to know. Seems like a no brainer to declare. Top 15 pick at worst.

Harold Landry is another junior who has a decision to make. 16.5 sacks this year and a nice interception in the bowl game last night. He's in the Miller/Mack/Beasley mold, although I'm not sure if he's as athletic as that crew. Wish he had more size (listed at 6'3 #250, but looks like 6'1 #235 to me). The more edge players the merrier. Landry would be a Collins replacement, not a true DE, IMO.

Given the age and contacts for Long and Ninkovich, we should probably look to find a replacement or two soon. Grissom doesn't inspire me much. Flowers is awesome but seems to move inside on 3rd down. If we want another player like him, DeMarcus Walker looks like his clone. Similar size and relentless play, but not a dynamite athlete.

Sticking in the same conference, Duke Ejifor posted some nice numbers this year, and I think he has all the skills we look for in an edge or hybrid player. Very underrated. I like him better than Smoot, who is more explosive but less technically refined. He's probably available in the late 2nd, early 3rd range.

Purely based on body composition, Jordan Willis looks like Chandler Jones, but he seems like an incomplete athlete. Something about his movements on the field just looks wrong, like he's always struggling to keep up. That said, he put up double digit sacks and had the most hurries in the country. I'm watching him closely at the Senior Bowl and combine. Maybe he's still growing into his body and that's why he looks awkward -- occasionally he has REALLY impressive speed rushes. I had similar concerns about Jones coming out, so who knows?

Agreed about Landry 100%. I really like him in that role but yes his frame is iffy but at initially im thinking he can put on some weight?
He had an amazing year! Just went off.

I mentioned Marquees Haynes before in the draft thread as a possible guy that could fill that role. 6'3 / 225 plays the edge. Great first step and acceleration. I like him more than most do to be able to transition into a lb. If not a 34 team will grab bc his burst is real. Def has to add weight first. Very productive kid that worked his way from rotation.
127 tfl (75 solo) 36.5 tfl 24.5 sacks 1 int 3 fr 9 ff 7 pd. career

How do like Walker? Where do you think he fits? I'm not sold on him tbh.

I get the same feeling with Willis. Some timesit feels like hes lumbering. Hes a big kid.

I loved the Jones and Hightower picks. They had me floored tbh. Always looked at Jones as a project that came into his own a year or two ago physically.

I think Jones had a lot more upside than Willis tbh.

D.B. has to come out. I think Garrett is a lock at #1 which makes him so much more valuable. I think hes as NFL ready as he'll ever be.

 

[stinkypete]

I'm tired of reading the phrase "historically weak QB class."

Is it weaker than the EJ Manuel, Geno Smith class of 2013? How about the Sam Bradford, Tim Tebow, Jimmy Clauson class of 2010? Weaker than the JaMarcus Russel, Brady Quinn class of 2007? The David Carr, Joey Harrington, Patrick Ramsay class of 2002?

If every 3rd to 5th QB class is "historically weak", then none of them are really historically weak.

 

[SEA_Pat]

But can any of them stretch the field while rushing the passer we need someone who get get sacks and be a deep threat

...while being a tall CB who can deal with the interior pass rush.

 

[WaterfallJumper]

...while being a tall CB who can deal with the interior pass rush.

Put me in, coach!

 

[meatface]

Certainly never an excess but there have been draft classes with several QBs w 1st Rd grades

it just seems like people say every year that the QB class is weak, I think maybe its just a position that is hardest of all to find NFL starters at

 

[RobertWeathers]

it just seems like people say every year that the QB class is weak, I think maybe its just a position that is hardest of all to find NFL starters at

I'm not a draftnik but no question QB is a hardest position to fill with a player that has ALL the attributes you look for. Alot certainly depends on development, coaching, system, etc.

At first glance, not sure what criteria to use but my hot take is it looks like the failure rate is around 80%

NFL.com Draft 2016 - NFL Draft History: Full Draft Year

 

[50-yard-line]

Weak on QB and OT.
Sub par on WR
Average on LB, TE, G/C, DT
Strong in DE, S
Very strong in CB, RB

That is my impression from what i have read and the limited scouting i have done.

I would like the Pats to add a DE and CB particularly. Though i think DE doesn't have great depth just about anyone you will be likely to pick in round 1 will be good. CB is legit 2+ rounds deep of guys who would usually go in round 1. I have never seen so much CB depth in a draft.

So let's see...CB is great, but QB isn't. DE is great but OT isn't...

I'm sensing some symbiosis here...

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

McCaffrey -- versatile white skill player who can play RB and reciever. A prospect hasn't screamed 'future Patriot' quite like him

BB loves the guys with NFL dads. Also, don't forget, McCaffrey was a team captain at Stanford!

[draft the beast!]

 

[ForThoseAboutToRock]

Harold Landry is another junior who has a decision to make. 16.5 sacks this year and a nice interception in the bowl game last night. He's in the Miller/Mack/Beasley mold, although I'm not sure if he's as athletic as that crew. Wish he had more size (listed at 6'3 #250, but looks like 6'1 #235 to me). The more edge players the merrier. Landry would be a Collins replacement, not a true DE, IMO.

Thanks, was hoping Landry would show up in this thread. BC hasn't had much to talk about, draft-wise, for quite a while. Obviously, some BC-types are hoping he stays for his senior season - build up his frame and maybe jump into high 1st rounder territory - probably wishful thinking though.

 

[BobDigital]

So let's see...CB is great, but QB isn't. DE is great but OT isn't...

I'm sensing some symbiosis here...

I wouldn't call it symbiosis. For example the QB play was not good from an NFL development perspective but for college it was fine. The difference between college Drew Brees and college Tim Tebow is small. Maybe college Tebow was the better college player even. Clearly though college Brees was the better NFL prospect.

It doesn't matter much in the college game when you have a lot of blown coverages and WRs are coming open by 10 yards fairly often and running games turning out 200 yards a week not being strange. It matters more how well the CBs stick with the WRs as that is what is looked at more and that is always tough.

Also from a DE/OT perspective me saying this is a bad OT draft is cause the top 2-3 OTs that usually should be in the draft are not there. Even if they were in college the top DEs would be lucky to play against 1 of them 1 time in the year. It would be nice to have on tape to see but it is not unusual for a top DE to be drafted and maybe never play an OT in college that is on par with them.

 

[BaconGrundleCandy]

I'd just like to say that most draft-niks talk about the QB class in terms of being "Pro Ready" and guys that could step up right away. The class could turn out to be quite good ... in time. I'm just not drafting anyone of these guys w/ immediate expectations.

The entire defensive side is special. It's a candy store of talent with guys that were drawn up from NFL casting.

The other "weak spots" offensively aren't that bad at all.

Im really the liking the G and C class. Few more than solid prospects (G Lamp if he converts, Feeny, Johnson, Isidora) (C Orlosky, Pocic and Elflein) all top 100 guys.

WR isn't that bad either imo. Definitely not 2014 but theres some talent there. Davis, Engram, Ross, Williams, Ju-Ju (19!), Courtland Sutton, Darboh, Ford, Henderson, Taywan Taylor and Curtis Samuel will blow up the combine.



Matt Milano is another perfect Patriotas far as I'm concerned. His character is all there. Great background, involved and nice family, extremely hard worker and smart. Hits like he wants to hurt you every time. Not sure how he'll time but he's def a player imo and possible hybrid.

 

[scott99]

Great question! Asking me to expound on Corey Davis is like asking an English teacher to lecture about Shakespeare, or an art critic to discuss Picasso, or a jazz lover to rhapsodize about Louis Armstrong. Actually, perhaps those aren't great comparisons, because I'm not really a big Picasso fan, but I digress.

Corey Davis is the perfect Patriot, although he does have some flaws. Before I dig into his current strengths and weaknesses, however, let me suggest that his playing style is very similar to Malcolm Mitchell, but he's taller, stronger, faster, and far more physical after the catch.

Strengths:

• Prototypal height and bulk for the position (6'3, #215)
• Extremely productive (most career receiving yards in FBS history)
• Both straight line speed and excellent short area quickness; surprising twitch for his size
• Smooth, coordinated athlete who routinely makes everything look easy
• Lines up at every WR position (slot, X, Z, whatever names you want to call them)
• Runs an extensive route tree; shows the ability to separate short, intermediate, and deep
• Doesn't rely on size/speed to get open; nuanced and precise route runner (will vary release at LoS, use head fakes, gear up/down to disguise intentions, modify the depth of the stem, time breaks effectively, etc)
• Excels at contested catches (Mossed a defender against Ball State this year)
• Fights for extra yards and consistently earns YAC via both jukes and stiff arms
• Blocks aggressively and seriously; considers it an essential part of his game
• Durable and consistent over career
• Head coach (Fleck) was an NFL receivers coach, and says Davis would have earned NFL playing time as a sophomore; Fleck has strongly endorsed Davis at every chance
• Reportedly the hardest worker in the entire locker room
• Squeaky clean, humble prospect who is highly respected in the program and community

Weaknesses:

• Despite ability to win jump balls and make spectacular catches, will sometimes not contest 50/50 balls when coming back to the QB; doesn't always play to his size
• Shows some concentration lapses, and drops easy catches; could have had another 10 catches this season
• Body catches on occasion; doesn't always show natural hands despite the ability to snatch the ball
• Concerns about lower level of competition?

While some may look at the weaknesses and worry about another Dobson situation, I have zero concerns. Davis himself has highlighted these areas as his own weaknesses, and has spent dozens of hours on catching drills to improve his hand-eye coordination. He's such a hard worker and takes football seriously. He will continue to improve as a player. He's already quite polished, but I don't think he's hit his ceiling yet. Easy 1st rounder for me. I think he's far and away the best receiver in this class.



I'll get to Tim Williams later. Out of time for the moment. Sorry!

Having Corey Davis in this offense, would almost be unfair. Goodell would fine the Pats and take away more picks.