“We’re going through a process”

[All3Phases]

You realize contracts are a two way street right?

Timmy agreed to take less from 2014 on, the team matched his commitment by pushing cap down the road and going all in. This is what propelled them to 4 Super a bowl appearances and 3 wins.

Suggesting BB should have done something different is saying you’d rather have Tom back and give back some, if not all of those rings.

No thanks… I’m happy with 6 rings, fine with how it ended.

I used that example to counter your logic. Has BB ever cut or traded a formerly great player?

 

[VectorPrime]

Passing a kidney stone is technically a process.

 

[Calhoun44]

Pete Carroll record by season 10-6, 9-7, 8-8. Then fired. We are watching Mr. Kraft!

If Mr. Kraft were to fire BB (which seems like a really bad idea), who would you want as the head coach? I have a suspicion that whoever follows BB in that office will have way more pressure on them than any other newly hired NFL head coach ever has. Not to mention teams would be lining up to hire BB and creating even more pressure on BB's replacement if BB takes a new position. Personally, I think the best way to handle the moving on from BB is to let him decide when it is time to move on, or wait until the wheels completely fall off (see Landry's Cowboys).

 

[captain stone]

All the mediots dumping on BB are the same people who asked BB in 2014 if there is a quarterback change coming or how he didnt plan for a 38 yr old QB after the chiefs loss

That was Then; this is Now.

 

[Wozzy]

I used that example to counter your logic. Has BB ever cut or traded a formerly great player?

What do you mean formerly?

He sat Bruschi down in front of a TV screen and ran tape of Teddy’s last few games… he agreed with Bills assessment it was time to hang it up. BB traded Moss, he traded or cut a bunch of good or formerly good players.

Seymour… he wanted to be the highest paid DT in the NFL, he made more pro bowls after he was gone. Law went to the Jests and went to another pro bowl, that was also over money. He cut Lawyer Milloy, that was also over money.

If money didn’t matter BB would have some of the best rosters in history, unfortunately that’s not the case.

 

[All3Phases]

What do you mean formerly?

He sat Bruschi down in front of a TV screen and ran tape of Teddy’s last few games… he agreed with Bills assessment it was time to hang it up. BB traded Moss, he traded or cut a bunch of good or formerly good players.

Seymour… he wanted to be the highest paid DT in the NFL, he made more pro bowls after he was gone. Law went to the Jests and went to another pro bowl, that was also over money. He cut Lawyer Milloy, that was also over money.

If money didn’t matter BB would have some of the best rosters in history, unfortunately that’s not the case.

This is the point, he’s cut players who used to be great based on their “current” ability and what they could Contribute to the team in the future. He didn’t keep Bruschi on the roster because he was a 3x super bowl champion and heart of tremendous defenses. It’s my entire point. A year too early rather than a year too late right? If he judged everybody on what they did in the past; he would’ve had a lot of old washed up rosters. You or him don’t do this with players, why is it bad to do it to a coach?

 

[Wozzy]

This is the point, he’s cut players who used to be great based on their “current” ability and what they could Contribute to the team in the future. He didn’t keep Bruschi on the roster because he was a 3x super bowl champion and heart of tremendous defenses. It’s my entire point. A year too early rather than a year too late right? If he judged everybody on what they did in the past; he would’ve had a lot of old washed up rosters. You or him don’t do this with players, why is it bad to do it to a coach?

The money matters. Seymour and Law were both worth what they were asking for but BB thought he could get better value for less.

BB traded the best young pass rusher and DE in the league because Chandler Jones wanted to be the 100 million dollar man. He got close to that.

You want to equate all this to BB having fallen off, without actually saying that. That's why you're doing these word Olympics.

How much did the Cards win after paying Jones? Real talk?

 

[Calhoun44]

This is the point, he’s cut players who used to be great based on their “current” ability and what they could Contribute to the team in the future. He didn’t keep Bruschi on the roster because he was a 3x super bowl champion and heart of tremendous defenses. It’s my entire point. A year too early rather than a year too late right? If he judged everybody on what they did in the past; he would’ve had a lot of old washed up rosters. You or him don’t do this with players, why is it bad to do it to a coach?

I'm not sure if I'm following this closely enough, but you seem to be advocating for the replacement of BB. Who would do a better job? Do you have someone in mind? That might be a better tact. I'm sure there are some good up and coming candidates, but I'm not confident that there is anyone better than BB that is out there and available. Would really love to hear people give real options that could generate interest in this type of discussion. It's one thing to fire a coach but hiring someone is a whole different story.

 

[All3Phases]

I'm not sure if I'm following this closely enough, but you seem to be advocating for the replacement of BB. Who would do a better job? Do you have someone in mind? That might be a better tact. I'm sure there are some good up and coming candidates, but I'm not confident that there is anyone better than BB that is out there and available. Would really love to hear people give real options that could generate interest in this type of discussion. It's one thing to fire a coach but hiring someone is a whole different story.

No, I am not advocating for that. The topic is who should be the highest paid coach in the league and my opinion is Mcvay. Wozzy disagreed because if BBs resume

 

[All3Phases]

The money matters. Seymour and Law were both worth what they were asking for but BB thought he could get better value for less.

BB traded the best young pass rusher and DE in the league because Chandler Jones wanted to be the 100 million dollar man. He got close to that.

You want to equate all this to BB having fallen off, without actually saying that. That's why you're doing these word Olympics.

How much did the Cards win after paying Jones? Real talk?

Not sure why you are thinking I’m saying he’s falling off without saying it: I said I think Mcvay and Reid are better coaches right now. I haven’t danced around anything. You know for a fact, BB doesn’t evaluate players on what they used to be. No reason for you to judge coaches the same. Sure the money doesn’t matter to a salary cap, but the team still has a budget, his money is still real. Again, the best example is Brady. If Brady was 24 years old in 2019, is he having trouble getting a big contract from the patriots? It’s the same concept, his resume didn’t matter when he asked for it, because it was irrelevant.

You can very much say he should be based on what happen from 2001-2019. I’ll use a more current timeline for Mcvay 2017-present

 

[moosekill]

Not sure why you are thinking I’m saying he’s falling off without saying it: I said I think Mcvay and Reid are better coaches right now. I haven’t danced around anything. You know for a fact, BB doesn’t evaluate players on what they used to be. No reason for you to judge coaches the same. Sure the money doesn’t matter to a salary cap, but the team still has a budget, his money is still real. Again, the best example is Brady. If Brady was 24 years old in 2019, is he having trouble getting a big contract from the patriots? It’s the same concept, his resume didn’t matter when he asked for it, because it was irrelevant.

You can very much say he should be based on what happen from 2001-2019. I’ll use a more current timeline for Mcvay 2017-present

OK, this is perhaps one of the dumbest arguments ever. Just stop. A team needs players and coaches. The question you could ask is, would you rather have the players from the rams or the chiefs or the patriots. Once you decide which team has the best players, then you can ask which coach would win the most with them. Give McVay the patriots roster last year and give Bill the Ram's roster, do you think BIll wins the superbowl and Mcvay makes the playoffs? If you give the best coach in the world a high school roster they are still going to lose to a lesser coach with NFL talent.

 

[All3Phases]

OK, this is perhaps one of the dumbest arguments ever. Just stop. A team needs players and coaches. The question you could ask is, would you rather have the players from the rams or the chiefs or the patriots. Once you decide which team has the best players, then you can ask which coach would win the most with them. Give McVay the patriots roster last year and give Bill the Ram's roster, do you think BIll wins the superbowl and Mcvay makes the playoffs? If you give the best coach in the world a high school roster they are still going to lose to a lesser coach with NFL talent.

You want to stop dealing in reality because it’s dumb, but offer hypotheticals as a defense? Not sure. I know when Mcvay took over the rams were 4-12 and his first season they went to 11-5. Then went to a super bowl with Jared Goff. I haven’t seen BB go to a super bowl with anybody except Brady. Have you?

 

[RodThePat]

You realize contracts are a two way street right?

Timmy agreed to take less from 2014 on, the team matched his commitment by pushing cap down the road and going all in. This is what propelled them to 4 Super a bowl appearances and 3 wins.

Suggesting BB should have done something different is saying you’d rather have Tom back and give back some, if not all of those rings.

No thanks… I’m happy with 6 rings, fine with how it ended.

I want the receipts on which contracts they gave out during the 4 Super Bowl appearances timeframe that would constitute "pushing cap down the road and going all in" in a manner that prevented future teams to field competitive squads. The only "all-in" moves they made came in 2019, when the team didn't really contend. I am suggesting Bill should have given Brady a 3 years/75 million extension after the end of the 2018 season, keeping him under contract for 2020, 2021 and 2022. That'd be peanuts compared to what other QBs on his level make and very, very likely enough to get him to stay and retire a Patriot.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I want the receipts on which contracts they gave out during the 4 Super Bowl appearances timeframe that would constitute "pushing cap down the road and going all in" in a manner that prevented future teams to field competitive squads. The only "all-in" moves they made came in 2019, when the team didn't really contend. I am suggesting Bill should have given Brady a 3 years/75 million extension after the end of the 2018 season, keeping him under contract for 2020, 2021 and 2022. That'd be peanuts compared to what other QBs on his level make and very, very likely enough to get him to stay and retire a Patriot.

Hindsight is 20-20. At the time Brady was 41, and they had just won the SB due to their running game. I think it's OK that BB wanted to go 1 year at a time at age 41.

 

[All3Phases]

Hindsight is 20-20. At the time Brady was 41, and they had just won the SB due to their running game. I think it's OK that BB wanted to go 1 year at a time at age 41.

So you’re saying he didn’t look back and say…well this guy is a 6x super bowl champion and the best player ever going into negotiations?

 

[Wozzy]

Not sure why you are thinking I’m saying he’s falling off without saying it: I said I think Mcvay and Reid are better coaches right now. I haven’t danced around anything. You know for a fact, BB doesn’t evaluate players on what they used to be. No reason for you to judge coaches the same. Sure the money doesn’t matter to a salary cap, but the team still has a budget, his money is still real. Again, the best example is Brady. If Brady was 24 years old in 2019, is he having trouble getting a big contract from the patriots? It’s the same concept, his resume didn’t matter when he asked for it, because it was irrelevant.

You can very much say he should be based on what happen from 2001-2019. I’ll use a more current timeline for Mcvay 2017-present

You’re talking out both sides of your mouth.

 

[zydecochris]

Hindsight is 20-20. At the time Brady was 41, and they had just won the SB due to their running game. I think it's OK that BB wanted to go 1 year at a time at age 41.

Agree. Suppose I am financial planner and I set up someone to be financially stable to age 97 and they amaze everyone by outliving their savings to age 104. IMHO, it doesn’t mean the decision was stupid or unreasonable, just a mistake in hindsight given the guy exceeded all expectations by living to 104.

Even with all the health stuff, no reasonable person would have predicted Brady could still be so effective at his current age, it is completely a one-of-a-kind type of thing.

 

[All3Phases]

You’re talking out both sides of your mouth.

I am not, you got your logic used against you with the Brady example. I have stated why I think Mcvay should be the highest paid coach In the league and you disagree

 

[Wozzy]

I want the receipts on which contracts they gave out during the 4 Super Bowl appearances timeframe that would constitute "pushing cap down the road and going all in" in a manner that prevented future teams to field competitive squads. The only "all-in" moves they made came in 2019, when the team didn't really contend. I am suggesting Bill should have given Brady a 3 years/75 million extension after the end of the 2018 season, keeping him under contract for 2020, 2021 and 2022. That'd be peanuts compared to what other QBs on his level make and very, very likely enough to get him to stay and retire a Patriot.

The Pats restructured Gilmore’s contract twice, once in 2018 and again in 2019 so they could sign players at the trade deadline. That pushed his cap debt down the road.

By 2020 his cap hit was larger than Brady, AB and Bennett’s dead cap combined… which they only pushed into the subsequent year because they were flat broke in 2019.

They did similar moves with Tom, Gronk, Cannon and other players contracts from 2014 on. Prior to that, borrowing from future cap on existing contracts was taboo in New England. They despised the practice.

Like I said earlier, a quarter of their 2020 cap was gone due to dead cap before a single free agent for 2020 was signed. They needed to re-sign or replace 12 starters who had aged out or cost too much, this included the most expensive position at QB and their entire LB corps.

They were at a dead end unless they were willing to continue borrowing. They weren’t and shouldn’t have. That team needed to be rebuilt and they would have been doing so with one hand tied behind their back.

 

[Ring 6]

Not sure why you are thinking I’m saying he’s falling off without saying it: I said I think Mcvay and Reid are better coaches right now. I haven’t danced around anything. You know for a fact, BB doesn’t evaluate players on what they used to be. No reason for you to judge coaches the same. Sure the money doesn’t matter to a salary cap, but the team still has a budget, his money is still real. Again, the best example is Brady. If Brady was 24 years old in 2019, is he having trouble getting a big contract from the patriots? It’s the same concept, his resume didn’t matter when he asked for it, because it was irrelevant.

You can very much say he should be based on what happen from 2001-2019. I’ll use a more current timeline for Mcvay 2017-present

You said Andy Reid is a better coach than Bill Belichick. Lololololololol. That should be the end of any discussion right there