Curran: "In my estimation... [Gonzo would like to] be treated as if he's at the table in 2027." [previous title: "say goodbye to gonzo"]

[TheRainMaker]

Maybe not Butler, but JC was phenomenal while he was here. Not elite by any stretch, but he damn sure did what he needed to do. Turnovers galore..25 INTs in 4 years is insane; especially considering he was undrafted.

He absolutely was elite. See below.

JC Jackson?
Malcolm Butler?

I thought that was a list of top NFL CBs, the cream. Do those guys really belong on such a list?

Butler no, but Jackson absolutely. Many want to forget how good Jackson actually was in NE. From 2018-2021, he led the league in pass breakups, INT's and held QB's to a rating of 38 in 2018, 36 in 2019, 66 in 2020 and 46 in 2021. He made 2nd team All Pro in 2021 and Pro Bowl as an undrafted FA by his 2nd year starting.

Top 10 NFL cornerbacks in 2022: Jalen Ramsey not No. 1

Episode 2 of the "Top 100 Players of 2022" aired on Sunday, with three cornerbacks making the list between Nos. 90-81. David Carr constructs his own ranking of the top 10 cornerbacks, but All-Pro Jalen Ramsey isn't No. 1.

www.nfl.com

Ranking NFL's top 10 cornerbacks of 2022: Jalen Ramsey remains king, Trevon Diggs explodes onto list

Ranking top 10 cornerbacks in NFL for 2022: Jalen Ramsey remains king, Trevon Diggs explodes onto list

www.cbssports.com

People to this day ignore that Jackson was dealing with an ankle injury since birth and decided to get surgery to fix it. The Chargers medical staff botched his rehab and cleared him as quickly as Mac Jones did with his ankle sprain. Living in SoCal, I watched many Chargers games and Jackson could barely run week 1 against Miami. Chargers coaching staff should've immediately taken him off the field, but they didn't. He ended up suffering a more severe injury in week 7 of the season ending it. Chargers threw him under the bus and ended up trading him back to NE. This was another one of BB’s bizarre moves which lead to his demise.

 

[Uptown]

He absolutely was elite. See below.

Butler no, but Jackson absolutely. Many want to forget how good Jackson actually was in NE. From 2018-2021, he led the league in pass breakups, INT's and held QB's to a rating of 38 in 2018, 36 in 2019, 66 in 2020 and 46 in 2021. He made 2nd team All Pro in 2021 and Pro Bowl as an undrafted FA by his 2nd year starting.

Top 10 NFL cornerbacks in 2022: Jalen Ramsey not No. 1

Episode 2 of the "Top 100 Players of 2022" aired on Sunday, with three cornerbacks making the list between Nos. 90-81. David Carr constructs his own ranking of the top 10 cornerbacks, but All-Pro Jalen Ramsey isn't No. 1.

www.nfl.com

Ranking NFL's top 10 cornerbacks of 2022: Jalen Ramsey remains king, Trevon Diggs explodes onto list

Ranking top 10 cornerbacks in NFL for 2022: Jalen Ramsey remains king, Trevon Diggs explodes onto list

www.cbssports.com

People to this day ignore that Jackson was dealing with an ankle injury since birth and decided to get surgery to fix it. The Chargers medical staff botched his rehab and cleared him as quickly as Mac Jones did with his ankle sprain. Living in SoCal, I watched many Chargers games and Jackson could barely run week 1 against Miami. Chargers coaching staff should've immediately taken him off the field, but they didn't. He ended up suffering a more severe injury in week 7 of the season ending it. Chargers threw him under the bus and ended up trading him back to NE. This was another one of BB’s bizarre moves which lead to his demise.

Love JC, but you gotta think that most of that was him playing across from Gilly.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Love JC, but you gotta think that most of that was him playing across from Gilly.

Jackson's best year was in 2021 when Gilmore left.

 

[TheRainMaker]

**** trading him. The guy is under contract for TWO more years. Get him on the field and ready to play and have him PROVE he's worthy to be paid among 5 best CB's in the league.

There's a reason BB waited until the 11th hour to give his draft picks extensions. The only two players BB didn't pay who went on to be an All Pro were Chandler Jones and Joe Thuney. The other successful player was Asante Samuel, but he didn't want to be in NE. Some of you guys are way to eager to give these players money. Barmore still had one year left and that was a colossal mistake. As nuts as BB became by 2023, there's no way BB would've given a limited player like Dugger that laughable contract in 2024.

I wouldn't pay Gonzalez anything, but there's going to be consequences. Expect him to sit week 1 if they don't come to an agreement. If he sits, the Pats should trade him. I guarantee you it will piss off the Vrabel and Pats management him tapping out of a Super Bowl rematch.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

There's a reason BB waited until the 11th hour to give his draft picks extensions. The only two players BB didn't pay who went on to be an All Pro were Chandler Jones and Joe Thuney. The other successful player was Asante Samuel, but he didn't want to be in NE. Some of you guys are way to eager to give these players money. Barmore still had one year left and that was a colossal mistake. As nuts as BB became by 2023, there's no way BB would've given a limited player like Dugger that laughable contract in 2024.

I wouldn't pay Gonzalez anything, but there's going to be consequences. Expect him to sit week 1 if they don't come to an agreement. If he sits, the Pats should trade him. I guarantee you it will piss off the Vrabel and Pats management him tapping out of a Super Bowl rematch.

Little more grey than that.
For all we know Vrabel wants to pay him, and Kraft won't give the green light on a reasonable number.
These are the types of things that destroy an organization from the inside out.
That's all we need, Vrabel unhappy and then the slippery slope starts.

 

[rads2005]

Which of these ended up being a mistake for the Pats, though? I think only Asante Samuel played well after leaving the Pats, and IIRC he hated it here and didn't want to resign.

 

[slash83]

Who cares, we need him.
We have SB hopes, our pass rush is a huge question mark.
Severely weakening our team for some lottery tickets, no thank you.

I agree and hopes he’s extended, likely outcome that happens is he’s given a big raise for his year and traded before next season. No way Kraft extends him and Maye in the same offseason, Kraft doesn’t operate like Seattle. It’s either extend Gonzo this year or he gets traded next year.

 

[slash83]

Which of these ended up being a mistake for the Pats, though? I think only Asante Samuel played well after leaving the Pats, and IIRC he hated it here and didn't want to resign.

Samuel was never a lockdown corner on the level of Gonzo.

 

[rads2005]

He just turned 24 years old, and your standard is that he needs to be a hall of famer - one of the top 5 to ever play the position.

Quite the low bar you have there, Ken.

Revis had already gotten paid by this point in his career, by the way.

Isn't Ken's point though that Gonzalez is a great corner, but wants to be paid like Revis Island, and isn't at that level? Gonzalez wants the top contract in the league and I believe also an escalator clause.

Revis held out his fourth year and didn't get the top NFL CB contract. This was following a 1st team all pro his third year, and that 3rd year was his Revis Island season- he locked down Terrell Owens, Andre Johnson, Randy Moss.

The Pats had the league's easiest schedule last season. Gonzalez did well against JSN in the Super Bowl, but I don't think he really faced the top WRs last season. Jamar Chase didn't play the Bengals game I think.

 

[TheRainMaker]

Samuel was never a lockdown corner on the level of Gonzo.

Who has Gonzo really faced though?

Here are the notable WR's they faced in 2025:

Hill (109 yards), Waddle (68 yards 1 TD), Metcalf (32 yards 1 TD), Olave (98 yards), London (118 yards 3 TD's), Egbuka (115 yards 1 TD), Flowers (84 yards), Higgins (31 yards), Sutton in a snow storm, JSN for minute. That's not a lot nor are most of them considered elite.

67% of the time they played zone. Samuel excelled at that and made plays.

Yeah I'd be hesitant to pay up as well.

 

[slash83]

Who has Gonzo really faced though?

Here are the notable WR's they faced in 2025:

Hill (109 yards), Waddle (68 yards 1 TD), Metcalf (32 yards 1 TD), Olave (98 yards), London (118 yards 3 TD's), Egbuka (115 yards 1 TD), Flowers (84 yards), Higgins (31 yards), Sutton in a snow storm, JSN for minute. That's not a lot nor are most of them considered elite.

67% of the time they played zone. Samuel excelled at that and made plays.

Yeah I'd be hesitant to pay up as well.

Last year coming off the hammy he didn’t look right. Once fully healthy he was an awesome, 2nd team all pro awesome.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

Which of these ended up being a mistake for the Pats, though? I think only Asante Samuel played well after leaving the Pats, and IIRC he hated it here and didn't want to resign.

Yup, it's a ridiculous post with no context.
Ty Law played 10 years here and was 31 when he left.
Samuel was and is still unhappy with the Pats.
The Revis contract was always intended to be a one year deal to get past Manning.
They didn't sign Butler because he wasn't good enough for the money he wanted and they signed Gilmore, a far better player instead.
Gilmore played 4 years here and was 30 when he was traded and had certainly regressed.
What a **** post, but hey, don't ever let facts get in the way of a ridiculous, ill-informed take.

 

[n1997y]

I said IF the Patriots are not even willing to do deals like Witherspoon and Stingley's then there are only two ways to interpret that.

I don’t really want to argue about it, but there were several things in your original comment that triggered my response and triggered me enough I want to clarify a little more.

Generally I dislike assumptions. It’s too easy to go astray if they’re wrong. It leads to conversations going off the rails a lot, often just from arguing about the assumptions themselves and that adds no real value.

Even more, I dislike drawing conclusions from assumptions. When you state a conclusion you’re making a stronger statement than just stating an assumption. But it depends on the underlying assumption being right, so that’s a potential,pitfall. And you’ve got another pitfall, if your conclusions are arguable. Again, I’m not looking to argue but I don’t accept your assertion that there are only two ways to interpret it.

All that isn’t even the biggest problem for me though. I really, REALLY, REALLY don’t like claims of knowing how a player is thinking or feeling, or worse how they *should* be thinking or feeling. It presumes too much about their values and value systems and overall psychology to be reliable. The only things we know are what the player says, but even then it’s very limited. We know Gonzo said he’s frustrated but we don’t know if he’s frustrated because the goalposts keep moving (we don’t know that, it’s just an example of one possibility) or if he’s frustrated because his agent told him it would be easy and get done as soon as Witherspoon signed and it hasn’t been, or what. So we’ve got to be real careful about projecting thoughts and feelings that Gonzo may or may not have, just projecting them because they’re what we would have, or think he should have. And then we assume that’s reality when it’s not, and again the whole conversation gets wrapped around the axle.

Final point on all this is that we have many self serving commentators offering their take on it all. None of them except Gonzo, his agent team, and the Pats FO have any real knowledge. Everybody else is repeating something they’ve heard someone else say, or they are making **** up themselves based on what they have heard other people say plus their own assumptions and projections. Everything coming from the Pats FO (including Kraft), Gonzo, or Gonzo’s agents, comes from someone with a dog in the fight, an axe to grind. That’s all going to be slanted, biased, selective, incomplete, and therefore unreliable. Everything else is even less reliable. So reports about whether the Pats are unwilling to match Witherspoon’s deal, or unwilling to match Stingley’s deal, really have to be taken with a grain of salt. Remember that the reporters putting those stories out are paid for the eyeballs their content attracts, not the veracity of that content.

So take everything I said earlier and consider that your post that bothers me rests on assumptions about the veracity of two articles of the content I just showed to be unreliable and hopefully you’ll see why I don’t think you should draw conclusions and then project Gonzo’s thoughts and feelings from it. Like I said, I don’t really want to argue about it, I really think that what I just discussed in the previous paragraph about unreliable information sources makes it impossible to know enough to have a good foundation for discussion. That’s why I said it was really moot.

 

[Uptown]

Gonzo shut this down…in the SB..

 

[slash83]

Gonzo shut this down…in the SB..

He’s shut down both them dudes.

 

[patfanken]

Bob Kraft is a cheap ****. There's no way in Orchids of Asia that Bob Kraft is going to sign players to the largest contracts in history at their position in consecutive seasons (Gonzalez this season and Maye next season). I can't wait to see how they **** around w Maye. It will be embarrassing

...and you are just an ******* with nothing substantive to offer this board beyond this kind of attack post. Why don't you just leave, I hear Trump is looking for internet trolls for the upcoming election. I think you'd be a PERFECT fit for his administration.

 

[patfanken]

I think the generational wealth part is pretty much a given at this point.
Now the real question is what are the Pats really offering?
They have been known to nickel and dime in these situations in the past, much different than how many other organizations run.
Good or bad, that's the way Kraft and his staff do business.
Now is Gonzo being unrealistic in his demands? Are the Pats being cheap and not offering him a market deal?
These are questions we don't have the answers to.
People can speculate. Kraft can say what he wants, Scheffter can report all the rumours he wants.
Fact is none of us know the real details, we just don't.

Have you ever considered that this so-called nickel and diming was part of the reason for the nearly 2 decades run of excellence the Pats had, while most of the other great teams of the era had runs of 4-5 years (maybe with the exception of KC) Just a thought

 

[TommyD4207]

Have you ever considered that this so-called nickel and diming was part of the reason for the nearly 2 decades run of excellence the Pats had, while most of the other great teams of the era have runs of 4-5 years (maybe with the exception of KC) Just a though

Difference being, that was back when Bob Kraft was still just a millionaire, self-funding his own stadium, and pulling money from Kraft Paper to cover the bills (also the salary cap was under 75 million).

Circumstances and times have changed. 5 million either way ain't what it used to be.

 

[patfanken]

He was wearing whatever the other starters who didn't dress. wore. 38 players didn't dress last night.

Edit: You did say he 'had to be Revis', when even Revis wasn't Revis by his third year. And I'll pay a 24 year old top-3 CB before I did the same for an Edge. Top Corners last longer, and you pay premiums on Edges depending on how many sacks they get (which is a crazy way to determine salary, but we're still here, I guess).

Thanks for the answer to my question, Tommy.

As to your "edit", I agree, Gonzo hasn't reached his best football yet, BUT to be fair, we have seen with JC Jackson how fast it can go the other way too. And wasn't a former big name, all pro CB just getting signed at the end of August (Seattle I think) Current success does NOT guarantee future production.

Bottom line here, Gonzo and his agent are negotiating like he is a FA who is unquestionably the best CB in the league when he is neither. He IS going to get paid a LOT of money regardless, He IS very likely to get a $30+MM signing bonus in the next week or so, He and his agent ARE unlikely to get as much of that $100MM contract guaranteed as they'd like. If I were them, I would counter with an ask for a shorter length contract (2-3yrs only), so his next in his next deal he will be a true FA and still in his prime.

 

[TommyD4207]

Thanks for the answer to my question, Tommy. As to your "edit", I agree, Gonzo hasn't reached his best football yet, BUT to be fair, we have seen with JC Jackson how fast it can go the other way too. And wasn't a former big name, all pro CB just getting signed at the end of August (Seattle I think) Current success does NOT guarantee future production.

Bottom line here, Gonzo and his agent are negotiating like he is a FA who is unquestionably the best CB in the league when he is neither. He IS going to get paid a LOT of money regardless, He IS very likely to get a $30+MM signing bonus in the next week or so, He and his agent ARE unlikely to get as much of that $100MM contract guaranteed as they'd like. If I were them, I would counter with an ask for a shorter length contract (2-3yrs only), so his next in his next deal he will be a true FA and still in his prime.

And I would go the other way, give him a full 5-year extension, and lock him up until his early 30s. These guys just don't grown on trees a) and b) by years 4 and 5 of the extension, he will be an absolute bargain.