Harold Landry Update

[jimnance]

You can’t build a football team worrying only about today.
Whoever you pick, you get for 4-5 years. I would rather have a very good football player for 4-5 years regardless of the position he plays than a questionable one at the position I most need today.

However, ultimately they don’t carry madden ratings. You can’t honestly rank players in exact order. At any given pick there are probably at least a half dozen players that are very close in how you rate them, especially across positions.
So having a voice between great or mediocre really doesn’t happen. I think ultimately you have a group of players that you rank very closely in talent, upside, system fit, readiness to contribute, etc and you pick the one from that group that fills the biggest need.
If there is one player you believe is clearly the best with a doubt you have to take him

That is what I pretty much said. All teams have their own draft rankings and that's what we're talking about here.
You never draft a player who is substantially worse than where you are drafting him regardless if its a position of need. Never.
But I agree that in some drafts, there may not be much difference between say,#20 and #30. And in that case, you take the position of need even if he's #30. Its not about the number of the pick its about talent level, upside etc. But usually, there's a big difference in quality from # 20 and # 30.
So need is never your #1 goal in a draft.
#1 is obviously improving your team. And reaching for a mediocre player who never contributes not only didn't fill the need you were trying to fill, you also missed out on a high quality player at another position.
We have seen this happen time and time again over the years with many teams

 

[n1997y]

Vederian Lowe = 6th round
Thayer Munford = 7th round

Bruschi was an inside linebacker, not an edge player. He was also taken in the 3rd round.

I think you just reaffirmed my take, not refuted it.

Guess I don’t know what your point was. I thought it was that God didn’t make many 6’6” 330 specimens so that build automatically made them worthy of consideration at pick #31, and that the relative surplus of 6’2” guys made them less desirable than the 6’6” guys. My point is that there’s more to it. Guys who are 6’6” and going in the sixth or seventh round are just distractions when we talk about pick #31.

 

[Pape]

Wow. You really dont understand how good teams have always built through the draft.
You sound like the ones that need to be spotted not only a C and a T but the A as well. And you still couldn't spell it.
Im done with you

The problem with your response is this - It is a text book example of moving the goal post. DaBruinz simply stated "You draft the best available talent, with the idea of what position groups need to be filled". Talent and Need go hand in hand.

You take the point of that post - ie the 'Goal Posts" - an you put them at the other end of the ****ing field with you asinine "well if this guy is graded three or four rounds lower than the BAP you are reaching" ********... Change the whole conversation whydontcha to make whatever dumbass point you are trying to make - No one ever advocated Reaching for a player.

I "don't know who to build a team" and you are "done with me"?

Get the **** out of here with that horseshit.

and i'm guessing the only reason you knew how to spell C A T was because i spotted you all three letters

 

[Wozzy]

look, I can be 100% on board with an OT

So you’ve changed your stance.

I have posted 2 times on this very thread (as well as others) that I would be fine with an OT, as long as he had a 1st round grade from the team. Otherwise, I have spoken to drafting Bowry in the 3rd (doubtful he is there with out a trade up)

Landry is 30 years old in June, and now has had 2 knee injuries

Ponder, Dremont, Swinson and draft pick…. doesn’t take a first. Not if they believe Ponder is a first round caliber stud… and they do.

stop arguing with everyone

Nobody is arguing, it’s a discussion.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

So you’ve changed your stance.

Ponder, Dremont, Swinson and draft pick…. doesn’t take a first. Not if they believe Ponder is a first round caliber stud… and they do.

Nobody is arguing, it’s a discussion.

You lost me here.
You're saying our front office/coaching staff thinks Ponder is a 1st rd caliber stud? Just because we had a position coach say he's the best UDFA he's worked with?
Sorry Wozzy, you're stretching here.

 

[Wozzy]

Guess I don’t know what your point was. I thought it was that God didn’t make many 6’6” 330 specimens so that build automatically made them worthy of consideration at pick #31, and that the relative surplus of 6’2” guys made them less desirable than the 6’6” guys. My point is that there’s more to it. Guys who are 6’6” and going in the sixth or seventh round are just distractions when we talk about pick #31.

There are fewer high end starting offensive tackles in a given draft class than any other position after QB’s and kickers.

On top of that, most teams know who these guys are, so these guys go in the first and second round. It’s rare that one slips further than that, if they do it’s because they’re a small school phenomenon or an international player that got overlooked.

This isn’t true of edge, or smaller guys in general. You can find high end starters throughout the entire draft and in the undrafted ranks.

Pretty simple.

 

[DoubleDeluxe]

There are fewer high end starting offensive tackles in a given draft class than any other position after QB’s and kickers.

On top of that, most teams know who these guys are, so these guys go in the first and second round. It’s rare that one slips further than that, if they do it’s because they’re a small school phenomenon or an international player that got overlooked.

This isn’t true of edge, or smaller guys in general. You can find high end starters throughout the entire draft and in the undrafted ranks.

Pretty simple.

I think you're over generalizing a bit.

of the top 15 (17 players, 3 tied 10 sacks) sack leaders last year:
10 are 1st rd picks
2 are 2nd rd picks
2 are 3rd rd picks
2 are 4th rd picks
1 is a 6th rd pick

Simple math says you're 5x more likely to find a stud pass rusher in the 1st rd than any other round.
So yes, you can find pass rushers throughout the draft, but landing a good one is directly proportional to where they are picked, no different than RT.

 

[rkarp1]

So you’ve changed your stance.

not even once. I have been fine with 1 of 7 OT at #31

Ponder, Dremont, Swinson and draft pick…. doesn’t take a first. Not if they believe Ponder is a first round caliber stud… and they do.

Nobody is arguing, it’s a discussion.

that 1st round caliber stud played 24% of defensive snaps last season and was healthy all season. he played 29% of the defensive snaps in the SB, behind a limping Landry. His 3 high snap games were in garbage time against the Jets, Phins and Giants. I am not saying Ponder might be something, but right now, he isn't.
If the team does draft an edge, and everyone is healthy, Swinson is cut