Who took the bigger risk (for the Patriots)?

[Actual Pats Fan]

They are both like children. And neither were the most important component of the dynasty.

That's right. 33.3% each.

I'm not diminishing Tom's contribution; but Kraft and Belichick each made seismic, risky decisions which paid off handsomely and enabled Brady to have the chance to play and develop.

Nothing any of them do or say today can ever alter their monumental accomplishments together.

 

[raduray]

Any hiring decision is a risk by both parties. The way if worked out, kudos to both of them. The way it ended, the relationship had exceeded its sell by date.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

No post Brady plan. 24 year old girlfriend in 21, gm mistakes, team getting worse every year… to say he should not have been fired is crazy. There were also lots of coaching errors in his last 3 years. He drafted Mac then ruined him by hiring Matt P.
Bill earned his firing.

I'd like to fire YOU!

 

[rkarp1]

Any hiring decision is a risk by both parties. The way if worked out, kudos to both of them. The way it ended, the relationship had exceeded its sell by date.

of course.
but pick one or the other

Bill was out as a HC for 5 years, with out a lot of interest. he was chafing under Parcells, and worried about Jets ownership.
The Jets wanted Parcells, but would accept Bill as Parcells lite. Bill knowing Parcells, knew Parcells would change his mind like the wind, and if he wanted to come back, the job was Parcells
Bill leaving the Jets seems like a no brainer if any team was interested

in the 5 years Bill was not a HC, the Pats were a playoff team 3 of those years, and went to a SB. Carroll was 27-21 in 3 years. never had a losing record.
RK wanted better. if he was firing Carroll, he could have chosen anyone.
he chose Bill. and gave up draft capital to get him.

seems RK took a much greater risk

 

[rkarp1]

I'd like to fire YOU!

unfortunately the truth hurts

 

[WhatJustHappened]

unfortunately the truth hurts

What truth do you speak of?

 

[Clonamery]

5-11 is not a failure?
5-11 is Modell's fault?

Ignore what you need to. That final season was just a countdown to Baltimore. BB was a lame duck and the Cleveland fans were screwed.

 

[Huckleberry1]

No post Brady plan. 24 year old girlfriend in 21, gm mistakes, team getting worse every year… to say he should not have been fired is crazy. There were also lots of coaching errors in his last 3 years. He drafted Mac then ruined him by hiring Matt P.
Bill earned his firing.

He “ ruined” Mac Jones? Lmao, you can’t ruin something that is no good to begin with.

 

[Huckleberry1]

Ignore what you need to. That final season was just a countdown to Baltimore. BB was a lame duck and the Cleveland fans were screwed.

I agree. Belichick would have built a winner in Cleveland if Modell hadn’t completely undercut him.

 

[Kdo5]

That's right. 33.3% each.

I'm not diminishing Tom's contribution; but Kraft and Belichick each made seismic, risky decisions which paid off handsomely and enabled Brady to have the chance to play and develop.

Nothing any of them do or say today can ever alter their monumental accomplishments together.

I just can’t qualify it as seismic risks. Bill was getting a HC offer and opportunity after he ultimately failed in Cleveland. There was talent still in New England to work with and ownership stability. Doesn’t feel like a huge risk to me, rather an opportunity.

It was a little more risky for Kraft because he was giving up a first round pick for a coach. At the same time owners hire and fire coaches on the reg. If Bill didn’t work it wasn’t going to really harm Kraft’s bottom line. It certainly paid dividends but I don’t think the risk was all that gigantic for an NFL owner. Especially as Bill was already known to be a very good football mind.

So there was some risk involved but both are making it out to be bigger than it was. They are fighting for scraps of left over credit.

 

[signbabybrady]

I just can’t qualify it as seismic risks. Bill was getting a HC offer and opportunity after he ultimately failed in Cleveland. There was talent still in New England to work with and ownership stability. Doesn’t feel like a huge risk to me, rather an opportunity.

It was a little more risky for Kraft because he was giving up a first round pick for a coach. At the same time owners hire and fire coaches on the reg. If Bill didn’t work it wasn’t going to really harm Kraft’s bottom line. It certainly paid dividends but I don’t think the risk was all that gigantic for an NFL owner. Especially as Bill was already known to be a very good football mind.

So there was some risk involved but both are making it out to be bigger than it was. They are fighting for scraps of left over credit.

The first round pick shouldn't really play much into it. Kraft pretty much decided he wanted Bill which Parcells then tried to stop and the legal battle started and a first was a way to satisfy the legal side.

 

[Real fan 02]

This is stupid, they both took risks. Bill really couldn't afford to fail after Cleveland and especially after spurning the Jets. Kraft at the time was on the last stretch of Bledsoe's prime years and just had Parcells ditch him and Carroll flame out. He also had a **** ton of money tied up into the team.

The only major contributor not risking anything was Brady because he had no choice over who drafted him and he had really nothing to lose.

Lance and my guy @signbabybrady,

Was listening to NFL network and WEEI on this. Seems some past patriots players are taking offense to BB saying he took a risk. Ted Johnson for example was saying as much as he loved Bill and he made him a better player that he spoke with other players from that team and guys were a little offended. When Bill came here he was handed control and some top tier players some now Patriots and NFL HOFs. Most notably Drew Bledsoe, Willie Mcginest, lawyer Milloy, Taw law, Adam Viniteri, Max lane, Ted Johnson, Ben Coates, Terry Glenn, Troy Brown, Teddy Bruschi, Kevin Faulk..

So from strictly a players standpoint...one could understand why some guys would feel a way about it. Nonetheless BB and RK gave us success in unison BB is the best Coach or at least in the top 5 ever to do it. RK helped grow the NFL product with the TV contracts and the Patriots to heights no Singular NFL owner has cared to do. I appreciate them both!

 

[signbabybrady]

Lance and my guy @signbabybrady,

Was listening to NFL network and WEEI on this. Seems some past patriots players are taking offense to BB saying he took a risk. Ted Johnson for example was saying as much as he loved Bill and he made him a better player that he spoke with other players from that team and guys were a little offended. When Bill came here he was handed control and some top tier players some now Patriots and NFL HOFs. Most notably Drew Bledsoe, Willie Mcginest, lawyer Milloy, Taw law, Adam Viniteri, Max lane, Ted Johnson, Ben Coates, Terry Glenn, Troy Brown, Teddy Bruschi, Kevin Faulk..

So from strictly a players standpoint...one could understand why some guys would feel a way about it. Nonetheless BB and RK gave us success in unison BB is the best Coach or at least in the top 5 ever to do it. RK helped grow the NFL product with the TV contracts and the Patriots to heights no Singular NFL owner has cared to do. I appreciate them both!

Bill took a dig at Kraft with the young owner stuff. But for me I think most of Bill's risk came from walking away from the Jets. If that didn't work out it could have really impacted his employability after.

The rest of his risk was mostly the same as any coach taking their second HC job.

 

[Real fan 02]

A

Bill took a dig at Kraft with the young owner stuff. But for me I think most of Bill's risk came from walking away from the Jets. If that didn't work out it could have really impacted his employability after.

The rest of his risk was mostly the same as any coach taking their second HC job.

Agreed there. Bill likely even commenting likely was his GF urging him to do so. But nonetheless.. he knew exactly what he was stepping into.. he was on the coaching staff under parcels and adapted his coaching style after him. We had greatness with BB and we all can appreciate him for that.

 

[DC Patriots]

Lance and my guy @signbabybrady,

Was listening to NFL network and WEEI on this. Seems some past patriots players are taking offense to BB saying he took a risk. Ted Johnson for example was saying as much as he loved Bill and he made him a better player that he spoke with other players from that team and guys were a little offended. When Bill came here he was handed control and some top tier players some now Patriots and NFL HOFs. Most notably Drew Bledsoe, Willie Mcginest, lawyer Milloy, Taw law, Adam Viniteri, Max lane, Ted Johnson, Ben Coates, Terry Glenn, Troy Brown, Teddy Bruschi, Kevin Faulk..

So from strictly a players standpoint...one could understand why some guys would feel a way about it. Nonetheless BB and RK gave us success in unison BB is the best Coach or at least in the top 5 ever to do it. RK helped grow the NFL product with the TV contracts and the Patriots to heights no Singular NFL owner has cared to do. I appreciate them both!

This is a great point. When looking at BB’s risk you need to weigh in that it was his second shot as a head coach. Telling the Jets to **** them selves on a ****tail napkin didn’t help things, but if he had failed as either Jets or Pays head coach he wasn’t getting another shot.

The risk of the two jobs was equal and the Pats had a more talented roster. The Jets had Chad Pennington and the ghost of Vinnie Testaverde as QBs. Neither of those guys was close to Bledsoe.

 

[Real fan 02]

This is a great point. When looking at BB’s risk you need to weigh in that it was his second shot as a head coach. Telling the Jets to **** them selves on a ****tail napkin didn’t help things, but if he had failed as either Jets or Pays head coach he wasn’t getting another shot.

The risk of the two jobs was equal and the Pats had a more talented roster. The Jets had Chad Pennington and the ghost of Vinnie Testaverde as QBs. Neither of those guys was close to Bledsoe.

Signbabybrady made the same comparison. It was more of a risk on an owner.. Bill had a tumultuous in at Cleveland, he doctored his coaching style after Parcells. However I'm happy history worked out the way it did for us. The run will never ever be replicated.

 

[rkarp1]

the risk with staying with the Jets was Parcells, and then an unknown coming in as an owner.
Parcells as the GM/Dir of Football Op's would have had him shopping for the groceries, not BB, and negotiating deals, not BB.
Also, Parcells up to that point had changed his mind on so many jobs, BB knew if Parcells wanted to come back to be the HC of the Jets, BB would be demoted or let go.

imo, no brainer getting out of there

the Pats over the 5 years prior to BB, had been in the playoffs 3 years and to a SB...they also had in theory a franch QB in DB. plus the Krafts were willing to hand over the keys to BB.

the Pats checked all the boxes...

 

[Triumph]

He is hopelessly devoted to Bill no matter how bad it gets.

Bob is a little weasel who wants to play both sides.

When the Super Bowl banners were piling up, Bob claimed that he saw something in BB all along. Noticed it when BB was DC for Bill Parcells. Bobby said the same about Mayo and just watch Vrabel's turn is next to be noticed by King Maker Bob.

Today, Bob took a big risk on Belichick that fortunately paid off. It was touch and go there.

 

[Wozzy]

Bottom line is Bob shouldn’t have sabotaged his own brand with that half assed documentary, public comments and kept it cordial.

There was no need to, and trying to make himself look better by diminishing his former head coach in the hopes of making the HOF only made him look small.

Bill would have said nothing, that’s his way… Bob opened the flood gates.

 

[Lavictoire]

It’s hard to give Kraft a big share in the credit when his sole contribution to the success was hiring Belichick and handing him the operation.

I think Kraft's hands off approach all those years deserves credit. That plus Bellichick was a winning combination.