Who took the bigger risk (for the Patriots)?

[203Pat]

No post Brady plan. 24 year old girlfriend in 21, gm mistakes, team getting worse every year… to say he should not have been fired is crazy. There were also lots of coaching errors in his last 3 years. He drafted Mac then ruined him by hiring Matt P.
Bill earned his firing.

He is hopelessly devoted to Bill no matter how bad it gets.

 

[signbabybrady]

No post Brady plan. 24 year old girlfriend in 21, gm mistakes, team getting worse every year… to say he should not have been fired is crazy. There were also lots of coaching errors in his last 3 years. He drafted Mac then ruined him by hiring Matt P.
Bill earned his firing.

He wins the Patriots 6 SBs and he only got one chance at rebuilding it. Zero loyalty shown

Yes not having a successor ready and waiting a year before drafting one didn't help but he still deserved more. And for anyone to even remotely suggest that he checked out is insulting and complete bull ****.

Look at this way Sam Bam you can make your case for why you think firing him was right but put yourself in his shoes and after everything he did would you feel like you were treated well? Wouldn't you think you deserved another chance to get it right?

 

[signbabybrady]

He is hopelessly devoted to Bill no matter how bad it gets.

It's called appreciation

 

[p8ryts]

He wins the Patriots 6 SBs and he only got one chance at rebuilding it. Zero loyalty shown

Yes not having a successor ready and waiting a year before drafting one didn't help but he still deserved more. And for anyone to even remotely suggest that he checked out is insulting and complete bull ****.

Look at this way Sam Bam you can make your case for why you think firing him was right but put yourself in his shoes and after everything he did would you feel like you were treated well? Wouldn't you think you deserved another chance to get it right?

thank you

 

[Boomer B]

None huh?

Not the Raiders, not the Jets?

Back in the 90s Belichick was very highly sought after and highly thought of, no matter his Browns experience. That whole thing went south with what Modell pulled, and Belichick was right about Kosar. The rest of the league knew about the quality. Between his year in New England and his years with the Jets, it was clear he was the same guy that got the Giants D clicking all those years.

Yes, it was 2 teams, the Jets and the Patriots. That’s it. The Raiders had Jon Gruden, they weren’t interested in Belichick at that time.

 

[Boomer B]

Quick Google shows the Raiders did in fact interview him in the late 90s. But don't let facts get in the way of your hatred.

And they hired Jon Gruden. That was 2 years before Kraft hired him. Belichick and Al Davis had a friendly relationship, and even Davis went with someone else. It’s complete revisionist history to act like Belichick had a bunch of options. He had the JETE and the Pats, and he made the smart choice.

 

[Boomer B]

He wins the Patriots 6 SBs and he only got one chance at rebuilding it. Zero loyalty shown

Yes not having a successor ready and waiting a year before drafting one didn't help but he still deserved more. And for anyone to even remotely suggest that he checked out is insulting and complete bull ****.

Look at this way Sam Bam you can make your case for why you think firing him was right but put yourself in his shoes and after everything he did would you feel like you were treated well? Wouldn't you think you deserved another chance to get it right?

No way they could keep Bill around. He was barely even communicating with the owner. He had surrounded himself with yes men, and his drafting was atrocious for years. Love him for the 20 great years, but at 70+ you don’t get multiple chances to rebuild. He had 4 seasons post Brady, went 29-38, and had built one of, if not, the worst rosters in the league. Kraft had to cut the cord.

 

[upstater1]

Yes, it was 2 teams, the Jets and the Patriots. That’s it. The Raiders had Jon Gruden, they weren’t interested in Belichick at that time.

The Raiders are on record as offering Belichick a couple years before. He was Amy Trask's selection. The whole Raiders thing was the reason for Belichick's upgraded contract with the Jets as the first $1m assistant in the NFL. Same as what happened between Josh McDaniel and the Colts.

 

[signbabybrady]

No way they could keep Bill around. He was barely even communicating with the owner. He had surrounded himself with yes men, and his drafting was atrocious for years. Love him for the 20 great years, but at 70+ you don’t get multiple chances to rebuild. He had 4 seasons post Brady, went 29-38, and had built one of, if not, the worst rosters in the league. Kraft had to cut the cord.

I've made my opinion clear on the subject that's why I said put yourself in Bill's shoes would you feel like you got everything you deserved? And more to the point of this conversation might you find fault in the things that the guy who fired you says?

 

[h0c2000]

The mouth of sauron must be lying.

 

[DC Patriots]

This is revisionist history. In 2000, nobody - nobody - showed any interest in Belichick besides the Patriots and the Jets job he inherited.

Agreed. Belichick was fired by the Browns in 1995. Kraft hired him in 2000. If everyone else thought he was a star in the making they had 5 years to hire him. He was a talented defensive coordinator with a losing record as a head coach. Kraft gave up a 1st for him. If Kraft traded a first for a similar guy now this site would be on fire.

And it was probably the greatest trade in NFL history. And he did it to the Jets. And Parcells.

I’m not crazy about a fair amount of the stuff he’s done since Myra Kraft died, but he belongs in the hall. As much as any owner. He, Belichick and Brady build by a wide margin the greatest dynasty in NFL history. That takes more than 1 person, there is plenty of credit to go around.

The squabbling over the credit is sad.

 

[Boomer B]

I've made my opinion clear on the subject that's why I said put yourself in Bill's shoes would you feel like you got everything you deserved? And more to the point of this conversation might you find fault in the things that the guy who fired you says?

That’s not how the NFL or life works. In a job like that the owner has to look at the future, not reminisce about the past. Bill was a great coach and GM, but he had lost his fastball, and at 70+ and content in his ways that fastball wasn’t coming back. The drafting was horrible, the roster was horrible, the communication was horrible…at that point you have to make the right call for the future of the franchise.

 

[rkarp1]

hey, it was forever "In Bill we trust, as long as he keeps winning"

well...he stopped winning

 

[signbabybrady]

That’s not how the NFL or life works. In a job like that the owner has to look at the future, not reminisce about the past. Bill was a great coach and GM, but he had lost his fastball, and at 70+ and content in his ways that fastball wasn’t coming back. The drafting was horrible, the roster was horrible, the communication was horrible…at that point you have to make the right call for the future of the franchise.

I will go to my grave thinking Bill deserved more but again for this conversation I'm just trying to get you to relate to where Bill is coming from now when he hears the guy who fired him say something else.

 

[mgteich]

hey, it was forever "In Bill we trust, as long as he keeps winning"

well...he stopped winning

yup.

He wins the Patriots 6 SBs and he only got one chance at rebuilding it. Zero loyalty shown

Yes not having a successor ready and waiting a year before drafting one didn't help but he still deserved more. And for anyone to even remotely suggest that he checked out is insulting and complete bull ****.

Look at this way Sam Bam you can make your case for why you think firing him was right but put yourself in his shoes and after everything he did would you feel like you were treated well? Wouldn't you think you deserved another chance to get it right?

Brady leaves and the team needs to start a rebuild including getting a QB. What should be expected for the first THREE years after Brady?
Was having a record of being within a game of .500 in all three years plus making playoffs a reasonable expectation?

Kraft wanted to keep Mayo, so he offered him the HC position after Belichick left. Mayo stayed and the team were in the middle of the pack for those three years. Josh brought a mediocre QB to the playoffs. Was that terrible. When Josh left, Belichick still produced a team with a game of 500.

AND THEN, AND THEN
1) Belichick and Kraft were at odds throughout the terrible 2023 season.
2) Kraft fired Belichick and gave his promised choice Mayo a chance to start to right the ship. I expect Mayo to get 2 or 3 years, However, 3) Mayo was so bad that Kraft fired him after a year, even after securing a top 3 QB in the draft..
4) And. then Kraft finally is moving on after 3 OK rebuilding years and two disasterous steps backward. And, would this have happened if Josh stayed. We'll never know.

 

[signbabybrady]

yup.

Brady leaves and the team needs to start a rebuild including getting a QB. What should be expected for the first THREE years after Brady?
Was having a record of being within a game of .500 in all three years plus making playoffs a reasonable expectation?

Kraft wanted to keep Mayo, so he offered him the HC position after Belichick left. Mayo stayed and the team were in the middle of the pack for those three years. Josh brought a mediocre QB to the playoffs. Was that terrible. When Josh left, Belichick still produced a team with a game of 500.

AND THEN, AND THEN
1) Belichick and Kraft were at odds throughout the terrible 2023 season.
2) Kraft fired Belichick and gave his promised choice Mayo a chance to start to right the ship. I expect Mayo to get 2 or 3 years, However, 3) Mayo was so bad that Kraft fired him after a year, even after securing a top 3 QB in the draft..
4) And. then Kraft finally is moving on after 3 OK rebuilding years and two disasterous steps backward. And, would this have happened if Josh stayed. We'll never know.

Definitely a lot of what ifs from all parties (BB,TB,RKK) that's for sure. It goes to show just how incredible 00-19 was. Nothing but grateful here.

 

[Triumph]

Bob Kraft was the owner of an NFL franchise.
If it weren’t for him there would not be a New England franchise. They would be the St. Louis Patriots. That is fact

The risk Kraft took affects the entire franchise
The risk BB took only affects one person BB

BB and Kraft were not on an equal level
Kraft’s risk was bigger

Eh, how has NFL football worked out in St. Louis?

Not too good.

2 teams have pulled up stakes and left. Furthermore, Kraft did not own property in Missouri.

 

[lancerman]

hey, it was forever "In Bill we trust, as long as he keeps winning"

well...he stopped winning

This. I'll say it again, Bill was afforded freedom that no other coach in the NFL was given. No coach in the league would have been allowed to let the Brady negotiations get to a point where he walked away, no other coach would have been allowed to make the decision to hire Matt Patricia as an OC.

Bill was given a lot of trust and control. So when things didn't work, he was the guy that needed to take the blame. We can all say "oh maybe he deserved a longer rope" but things were progressively getting worse. It went from a GM issue to a "now the team isn't even playing disciplined football and are all over the place" issue.

That structure needed to change at that point and it's very hard to believe significant change would be made with Belichick as the HC.

 

[Kdo5]

They are both like children. And neither were the most important component of the dynasty.

 

[Actual Pats Fan]

Bob Kraft was the owner of an NFL franchise.
If it weren’t for him there would not be a New England franchise. They would be the St. Louis Stallions. That is fact

The risk Kraft took affects the entire franchise
The risk BB took only affects one person BB

BB and Kraft were not on an equal level
Kraft’s risk was bigger

Bob liked and trusted Bill, and I agree with him.

I think the main risk for Bill was that, until Parcells agreed to a settlement, there was a chance Bill would be coaching nowhere in 2000. And, he possibly would have been a less attractive candidate, given how he bailed on the Jets.

Two grown old men acting like little b’s. Appreciate them both but got to laugh at the silliness of it all.

Bob's jumped on board the enormous Bill Sucks bandwagon, which is loaded with morons who are full of ****.

Bill's human and thus like all of us is not perfect. But step by step, one day at a time, he devoted the time, work, thought and dedication it takes to make brilliant, successful personnel and strategic decisions which led to one of the greatest runs of success in sports history. I'm unhappily aware of Bill's shortcomings as a coach. They are totally outweighed by his brilliance, and his genuine love and appreciation for the game.

Bill's public perception today would probably be better if his girlfriend had a lower profile - and a higher age.

As for Bob, he too is a very passionate, emotional and egotistical guy. Like most of the high profile owners, he formulates takes on events without complete comprehension of the facts or objectivity, and publicly shoots from the hip when he believes he's been done wrong.

This behavior, particularly in advanced age, isn't new; but one thing a lot of the older, WWII generation had is an ability to have perspective and see things and people within the context of their environment and the pressures their generation brought upon them.