Why was this year's draft so much better than last's?

[imahobgoblin]

The draftees have not taken a single snap in an NFL game. How do you know they are so much better? Because the media told you so? That same media told you the 2024 draft class was:

Danny Kelly (The Ringer): A
Chad Reuter (NFL.com): B
Charles McDonald (Yahoo Sports): A-
Pro Football Focus: B+
Kris Knox (Bleacher Report): A
Cam Mellor (Pro Football Network): B+
Doug Farrar (Touchdown Wire): B+
Chris Trapasso (CBS Sports): A

We have no idea how a draft class grades out until time tells us.

 

[Ring 6]

I think he redeemed himself recently, and it demonstrates that a front office needs a good team that works well together, which is what we appear to finally have.

How did he redeem himself? These guys haven’t played a game. Redemeption isn’t “the same people who liked your draft last year them watched it fail, like your draft this year”

 

[Ring 6]

LOL, we already have - and save for paying Okorafor, I don't blame free agency on him last year. You can already see the difference having a quality QB and, more importantly, a competent and reputable coach makes. The difference in who they were able to sign this year as opposed to last year is obviously striking, and it shows you just how bad things were here heading into last March.

And on the public comments, the more I thought about it, the more I realized - what else was he going to say? "They suck, but it's the best we could get?" It's the job of any personnel guy to instill confidence in the players they have. He basically said what you would have expected him to, albeit, I think he put too much faith in Okorafor which - as I've mentioned - was probably the #1 thing I'd fault him for and hopefully he's learned from it.

Okorafor had a rep going into last offseason, and if I recall, I believe he also talked up his own ability to play left tackle. So it feels like that was discussed, and he wasn't exactly blindsided with it. Instead, he made it seem like he was being asked to do something he didn't want to and then quit. Which obviously screwed them for the season.

We will have to disagree that a GM with 100 million cap space who couldn’t find a single good starting free agent shouldn’t be blamed for bad free agency.
I mean we agree it sucked, but you are allowing for the fact that he was supposed to suck. Im not.

As far as the comments are we really saying the guy who said we were fine was t wrong, he was only lying because what else could he do but lie? Remember he was defending the terrible OL he was responsible for building. So if he lied then it was an admission he sucked.

 

[Ian]

We will have to disagree that a GM with 100 million cap space who couldn’t find a single good starting free agent shouldn’t be blamed for bad free agency.
I mean we agree it sucked, but you are allowing for the fact that he was supposed to suck. Im not.

As far as the comments are we really saying the guy who said we were fine was t wrong, he was only lying because what else could he do but lie? Remember he was defending the terrible OL he was responsible for building. So if he lied then it was an admission he sucked.

Top tier guys didn't want to come here. That's not my opinion, that's a fact that's been repeated by people who matter far more than me.

As for him coming up empty, that's not entirely true. They dug through guys who didn't draw much interest and found the best of what was left. Signed Hooper and Gibson, both of whom played well last year, and Brissett bought them enough time to get Maye ready. He wasn't great, but I think we've heard plenty of things behind the scenes to prove he played a significant role there. Takitaki was serviceable, especially given their injury situation. And obviously, the extensions of 11 players last offseason helped, with Henry, Ellis, Austin, Onwenu, and Jennings among them.

It is what it is. I know you hate him, and I have no emotional investment in the guy, but I simply realize just how bad they were. They swung and missed on players who flat-out turned them down. Those guys wouldn't - and didn't - take a reasonable deal, and he would have reset their own market by grossly overpaying whoever they would have signed. In my mind, that would have been worse.

And yes, that's what I'm saying about him defending his players. I don't fault him for publicly "lying" about that. Saying otherwise publicly - which Mayo did, and we saw how that went - would have been far worse. It's his job and the job of any NFL GM to talk up their players. That's why, in the end, it's the games that matter, but given the alternative, I understand it.

 

[PatsFan2]

This board was ecstatic about the Baker pick.

Guilty.

 

[PatsFan2]

You see the picks for what they *really are* if you don't look at them through those binoculars.

 

[Ring 6]

Top tier guys didn't want to come here. That's not my opinion, that's a fact that's been repeated by people who matter far more than me.

As for him coming up empty, that's not entirely true. They dug through guys who didn't draw much interest and found the best of what was left. Signed Hooper and Gibson, both of whom played well last year, and Brissett bought them enough time to get Maye ready. He wasn't great, but I think we've heard plenty of things behind the scenes to prove he played a significant role there. Takitaki was serviceable, especially given their injury situation. And obviously, the extensions of 11 players last offseason helped, with Henry, Ellis, Austin, Onwenu, and Jennings among them.

It is what it is. I know you hate him, and I have no emotional investment in the guy, but I simply realize just how bad they were. They swung and missed on players who flat-out turned them down. Those guys wouldn't - and didn't - take a reasonable deal, and he would have reset their own market by grossly overpaying whoever they would have signed. In my mind, that would have been worse.

And yes, that's what I'm saying about him defending his players. I don't fault him for publicly "lying" about that. Saying otherwise publicly - which Mayo did, and we saw how that went - would have been far worse. It's his job and the job of any NFL GM to talk up their players. That's why, in the end, it's the games that matter, but given the alternative, I understand it.

It is not a fact at all. We’ve been through this. He signed every free agent he pursued except Ridley.

He had 100 million.
Hooper and Gibson are backups.
Brissett stinks. You are telling me Brissett is evidence Wolf is a good talent evaluator? Thats the discussion here.
Takitaki was horrendous. Maybe the worst player in the league.
Resigning our own players got us from
4-13 to ………..4-13. (With a gift win)

I don’t hate him, I am honest abut assessing the job he has done
Are you honestly telling me you think he did a good job in 2024?

They swing and missed in exactly 1 player. Ridley.

It’s not the job of a GM to “defend” bad players. It’s absolutely not his job to talk them up. Where does that come from? How many GMs are out there being asked about obvious weaknesses and saying we have a lot of talent and we will be fine when picking up waiver wire guys and starting them?
He should have said , like a competent GM would, that he acknowledges the OL is struggling and is a willing progress and he will do whatever he can to improve it.
I can’t believe you are supporting coddling bad players so their feelings aren’t hurt. Which dynasty did that?

 

[40yrpatsfan]

How did he redeem himself? These guys haven’t played a game. Redemeption isn’t “the same people who liked your draft last year them watched it fail, like your draft this year”

Didn't you kinda know a year ago that there were issues with that draft? Nobody has that feeling this year. Obviously won't know for sure for another 1-2 years but this year was far better no question.

 

[Ring 6]

Didn't you kinda know a year ago that there were issues with that draft? Nobody has that feeling this year. Obviously won't know for sure for another 1-2 years but this year was far better no question.

You don’t know.
How people feel about a draft is irrelevant and doesn’t correlate to how it plays out.
You can’t say it’s a good draft before anyone plays. Every team thinks they drafted well.

 

[Ian]

It is not a fact at all. We’ve been through this. He signed every free agent he pursued except Ridley.

He had 100 million.
Hooper and Gibson are backups.
Brissett stinks. You are telling me Brissett is evidence Wolf is a good talent evaluator? Thats the discussion here.
Takitaki was horrendous. Maybe the worst player in the league.
Resigning our own players got us from
4-13 to ………..4-13. (With a gift win)

I don’t hate him, I am honest abut assessing the job he has done
Are you honestly telling me you think he did a good job in 2024?

They swing and missed in exactly 1 player. Ridley.

It’s not the job of a GM to “defend” bad players. It’s absolutely not his job to talk them up. Where does that come from? How many GMs are out there being asked about obvious weaknesses and saying we have a lot of talent and we will be fine when picking up waiver wire guys and starting them?
He should have said , like a competent GM would, that he acknowledges the OL is struggling and is a willing progress and he will do whatever he can to improve it.
I can’t believe you are supporting coddling bad players so their feelings aren’t hurt. Which dynasty did that?

Ah, I forgot, you believe Wolf only called on the handful of guys they signed and no one else. As I said the last time we got into this, if he made only those calls (9) and didn't bother with the rest, he should have been fired since personnel guys make literally hundreds of calls most offseasons. Needless to say, we'll again have to agree to disagree.

And on the GMs - I'll let you Google any quotes there. But my guess is you won't find any badmouthing their own players. And as far as supporting "coddling" bad players - tell me again how that worked out for Mayo? And can you point out any times where Belichick badmouthed guys publicly? He was a guy who kept things in house and talked positively about guys who were issues here.

 

[Ian]

It is not a fact at all. We’ve been through this. He signed every free agent he pursued except Ridley.

He had 100 million.
Hooper and Gibson are backups.
Brissett stinks. You are telling me Brissett is evidence Wolf is a good talent evaluator? Thats the discussion here.
Takitaki was horrendous. Maybe the worst player in the league.
Resigning our own players got us from
4-13 to ………..4-13. (With a gift win)

I don’t hate him, I am honest abut assessing the job he has done
Are you honestly telling me you think he did a good job in 2024?

They swing and missed in exactly 1 player. Ridley.

It’s not the job of a GM to “defend” bad players. It’s absolutely not his job to talk them up. Where does that come from? How many GMs are out there being asked about obvious weaknesses and saying we have a lot of talent and we will be fine when picking up waiver wire guys and starting them?
He should have said , like a competent GM would, that he acknowledges the OL is struggling and is a willing progress and he will do whatever he can to improve it.
I can’t believe you are supporting coddling bad players so their feelings aren’t hurt. Which dynasty did that?

Again, I know you don't like him, and that's cool. I'm a fan of continuity and fall under the umbrella of hoping for success since keeping staffs together ultimately tends to be the better way to go rather than everyone behind the scenes having to regroup.

Hopefully, they hit on the majority of the guys they picked, along with the free agents they signed this offseason. If not, that's how he'll be judged, and if that's how it plays out, I'm sure at that point they'd make a change.

 

[Ring 6]

Ah, I forgot, you believe Wolf only called on the handful of guys they signed and no one else. As I said the last time we got into this, if he made only those calls (9) and didn't bother with the rest, he should have been fired since personnel guys make literally hundreds of calls most offseasons. Needless to say, we'll again have to agree to disagree.

And on the GMs - I'll let you Google any quotes there. But my guess is you won't find any badmouthing their own players. And as far as supporting "coddling" bad players - tell me again how that worked out for Mayo? And can you point out any times where Belichick badmouthed guys publicly? He was a guy who kept things in house and talked positively about guys who were issues here.

I believe what is known. He was not linked to anyone else.
How can you evaluate someone and draw conclusions based upon “well im sure he did things we didn’t know about”. While also being certain he failed at it. I also disagree that GMs pursue 100s of unrestricted free agents.

Did I say he should bad mouth his players?

You have taken “I consider Wolf announcing that the OL is talented and will be fine during preseason while they were getting blown up, and then being the with OL in the NFL to be an indication he is bad at evaluating players” and turned it into he was right to do and it was a good job because the only alternative would be to publicly trash the players.

Remember we are talking about his ability to evaluate players.

 

[Ring 6]

Again, I know you don't like him, and that's cool. I'm a fan of continuity and fall under the umbrella of hoping for success since keeping staffs together ultimately tends to be the better way to go rather than everyone behind the scenes having to regroup.

Hopefully, they hit on the majority of the guys they picked, along with the free agents they signed this offseason. If not, that's how he'll be judged, and if that's how it plays out, I'm sure at that point they'd make a change.

It has nothing to do with liking him. You know that and there is no need to belittle my position that way.

I’m a fan of having capable people and getting rid of those who are not. Continuity of incompetent is not a good thing.

Im not sure why you aren’t willing to judge him based upon exactly what he did and insist on making up different rules and excuse for him.

We had 100 mill and the 3rd pick in every round and we got worse.
Surely we agree he had a bad 2024, right?

 

[Ian]

I believe what is known. He was not linked to anyone else.
How can you evaluate someone and draw conclusions based upon “well im sure he did things we didn’t know about”. While also being certain he failed at it. I also disagree that GMs pursue 100s of unrestricted free agents.

And I already told you. If he only made nine phone calls all offseason, he should be gone.

Did I say he should bad mouth his players?

You called him out for defending his players. I told you I wouldn't expect anything else.

You have taken “I consider Wolf announcing that the OL is talented and will be fine during preseason while they were getting blown up, and then being the with OL in the NFL to be an indication he is bad at evaluating players” and turned it into he was right to do and it was a good job because the only alternative would be to publicly trash the players.

You believe he didn't try, which says that you believe he targeted just Okorafor and Leverett to address the OL throughout that entire stretch and didn't even inquire on the rest, and then went, "We're good."

Again, if this was true, we’re on the same page and I 100% agree with you. Absolutely should've been fired.

 

[WhatJustHappened]

I just can't read all that...just can't...

 

[Toofy]

Mayo was dealt a bad hand and he took it knowingly. Not much you could do unless you had an otherworldly talent of uplifting guyZ or scheming plays. Sadly Mayo had neither. Hence everyone stunk up the joint.

 

[IcyPatriot]

None of them have a had chance to suck or not get it yet.
The draft and players selected ... paper - scissor- rock.

 

[One-If-By-Sea]

Mayo was dealt a bad hand and he took it knowingly. Not much you could do unless you had an otherworldly talent of uplifting guyZ or scheming plays. Sadly Mayo had neither. Hence everyone stunk up the joint.

What bad hand was Mayo dealt? The hand Vrabel was dealt was worse. In both cases, Mayo and Vrabel had huge FA money, and coming off the 2024 draft, Mayo's 2nd year players were better than Vrabel's. Can you please explain the bad hand the Mayo was dealt and compare it to the good hand that Vrabel was dealt???

 

[Ring 6]

And I already told you. If he only made nine phone calls all offseason, he should be gone.

You called him out for defending his players. I told you I wouldn't expect anything else.

You believe he didn't try, which says that you believe he targeted just Okorafor and Leverett to address the OL throughout that entire stretch and didn't even inquire on the rest, and then went, "We're good."

Again, if this was true, we’re on the same page and I 100% agree with you. Absolutely should've been fired.

I don’t care how many phone calls he made, I care about who he acquired. He got the player he pursued at every position.
He brought in QB, RB, TE, T, G, C. He resigned Bourne and went after Ridley, didn’t get him and drafted 2, and they were both awful.
He brought in DL, LB, CB, S
He filled every single need almost all with his first target. Why would he be making more calls if he thought he got his guy.
That’s literally the problem. He brought in bad players to fill the holes instead of good ones, and drafted poorly.

He chose Orkarafor as his LT before even pursuing anyone. He drafted Wallace to compete with him or back up. He paid Onwenu a boat load of money evidently to be a T. He brought in Leverrett and Jordan. He drafted Robinson and Wallace. That’s 6 OL acquisitions and a very said list.

I don’t call him out for defending players. I called him out for believing he had a talented OL that would be fine. You said he was lying to protect them. You don’t seem to hold him accountable for assembling it either way.

I never said he didn’t try. He tried. He signed all of his targets but 1.

He went to camp with his choice Okorafor as his LT with Wallace either backing him up or playing RT. Lowe in the mix. Andrews at C. Robinson, Leverrete, Sow and Jordan as Gs.
If you can show me any other OL that we were connected to (since the rumors fly rampant) I’d consider that he thought his OL was weak, but I saw none.

Other than making up things you think he might have done, or saying his comments were lies, what are you listing as the examples that prove he is a good evaluator?

 

[Toofy]

What bad hand was Mayo dealt? The hand Vrabel was dealt was worse. In both cases, Mayo and Vrabel had huge FA money, and coming off the 2024 draft, Mayo's 2nd year players were better than Vrabel's. Can you please explain the bad hand the Mayo was dealt and compare it to the good hand that Vrabel was dealt???

Mayo did not have a QB when he came in. If was brisett and draft.

Mayo being novice had no good coordinators join him. That's a death knell . He should have anticipated that or Kraft should have thought about it . With no good OC or DC joining him, free agents were reluctant to come to a team with no QB nor good coordinators and a fresh unproven HC.

Vrabel had Maye a big difference . Vrabel also had a ton of unused cap space and lesser restrictions .

I am not defending Mayo. I am just saying that he set himself up for failure and Kraft and the entire setup around him was conducive to it . Taking a line from Paul coelho he entire universe conspired to make sure Mayo failed and that includes Mayo too...