Cap space

[Ring 6]

So do you think they should convert every players salary to signing bonus and defer cap hits as much as possible so they can sign 30 free agents this year? Where do you draw the line?

Is that what I said?

 

[Ross12]

You are using the average and that’s not how it works.

Most likely
Landry. 11
Williams 15
Spillane 8
Morgan 6
Davis 16
Dobbs 3
Tonya 2.7

That’s 62, but we subtract Godchaux (2.7) and 6 others out of the top 51 and we are down to about 53

We had 121 after hooper, so best guess is we still have 68 mill.

Only 2 other team STARTED FA with more than 68 mill.

I’d bet many of those first year hits are even lower. Many of the deals today did not have massive signing bonuses. Safe to assume they’re floating around $60-70M in space, under top 51 formulation.

 

[maust]

Well i was of the thinking it was better to start at the average or there about... then project the undershoot from that point.

Given the cap space the Pats had available it may well be that some of the cost of today's deals ends up being front loaded to preserve flexibility 2-3 years down the road.

 

[Ross12]

Given the cap space the Pats had available it may well be that some of the cost of today's deals ends up being front loaded to preserve flexibility 2-3 years down the road.

Unfortunately front loading deals is rarely a good idea because it just makes for *****y players

 

[maust]

Unfortunately front loading deals is rarely a good idea because it just makes for *****y players

I agree heavy front loading can lead to Judon syndrome but judicious plumping when the space is there can also be undeniably good business

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Wonder when otc will be updated to reflect most of the moves, Hopefully sometime later this week?

 

[Ring 6]

I’d bet many of those first year hits are even lower. Many of the deals today did not have massive signing bonuses. Safe to assume they’re floating around $60-70M in space, under top 51 formulation.

I was being conservative.

 

[Ross12]

I was being conservative.

Yeah, I think your numbers were very sensible.

 

[stinkypete]

My guess is that they still roll over enough cap space to next year that it makes @Ring 6 blood boil lol

At a certain point they have to weight whether the money is better spent on the immediate return of a free agency day 2/3/4 signing this year or rolling it over to put towards pursuit of a day 1 free agent next year.

IMO, the roster needs a coverage FS worthy of playing time, a guy who can at least compete for the starting LT spot and someone who can capably line up as an X receiver. I think beyond that they have a roster they can trot out there and let young players/draft picks fight for role on. Then next year they repeat the process and try to add another FA haul to it. Hopefully draft well this year and next. And then I think we can be cooking with gas.

This is the mistake the team made in 2021 - overspending on lower end talent to the point that it handcuffed the team throughout 2022 and 2023.

I am all for making spashes at either WR, OT or FS, but, looking at what is left, I would rather take a chance on upside (Jedrick Willis) then spend big on proven mediocrity (Cam Robinson). Count me all in on bringing Javon Holland or Justin Reid here and completing the makeover of the defense.

 

[Hugepatsfan]

Cap number for 2025 should be:

$5.5M signing bonus amortization
$5M salary
$225K workout bonus
$975K roster bonus (likely to be earned - another $300K considered unliekly)
$2M playtime incentive (likely less because tied to game played and he only played 13/17 last year but I can't decipher from this).

Cap number of $13.7M. Again, likely less because some of that playtime is not likely to be earned I'm pretty sure.



Assuming there are no void years, that $24M signing bonus would count $6M on the cap this year and be paid upfront. If the year 1 cash is $32M then that means $8M more in salary/bonuses that would count this year. So off of that, it looks like his cap number is $14M for 2025.



So for combined $46M AAV on these two, cap hit is probably more like $27.7M.

 

[203Pat]

Oh no we need to keep an eye on the cap space!

 

[Wozzy]

The good news is they can certainly shed some dead weight and open up some more space.

Drake Maye is paid like a rookie for the next 3-4 years depending. Now is the time to spend, determine who the cornerstone players are going forward and lock them up before Maye needs a contract.

 

[dliverey]

I was about to make this thread to try to keep track of everything. We started at 125M in cap space. We need something like 15M for the draft/Emergency fund/practice squad. So we have 110M to spend.

Landry DE - 3 yr 48M 28 G (call it 15M this year)
Williams DT - 4 yr 104M (call it 25M this year)
Spillane LB - 3 yr 37.5M 20G (call it 12M this year)
Morgan OT - 3 year 24M <up to 28.5> (call it 8M this year)
Davis CB - 3 year 60M 34.5G (call it 19M this year)
Hooper TE - 1 year 5M <up to 7> (call it 5M this year)
Dobbs QB - 2 year 8M 3.8G (call it 3.5M this year)
Tonga DT - 1 year 2.7M

Add all that up based on my guesses and you get about85M spent... but it could be lower by a good amount too. Also please correct any errors i made or if updated info comes.

So we have between 25M-45M depending on how back loaded we are going. Though some seem to think these are much more back loaded at 60M and these numbers to not project any cuts made.

If they put any void years in that well also change the number significantly. I don't know if they report void years.

 

[Brotherblues]

While their cap hits on new contracts are lower this season, they don't stay low forever. So you should consider how much money you want to carry over into next season to pay for those increases and still be flexible for new moves next offseason.

There's still room for, say, Cam Robinson and Teven Jenkins, but I'd wager it's much tighter than most people think. I'm not qualified to say where the line should be drawn, but it's gotta be drawn somewhere.

 

[billdog3484]

Overthecap has us at $93M. BUT, it includes, Williams, Davis, Spillane, Hollins, but NOT Spillane and Moses. So my guess is we are probably at about $77-83M. This would mean we still have 3rd most space. I dont know how accurate this website is though

NFL Salary Cap Space | Over The Cap

NFL salary cap space estimates for all 32 teams

overthecap.com

 

[BobDigital]

What's interesting to me is how back loaded the biggest contracts of Williams and Davis seem to be. Particularly how little year 1 is compared to later years. It isn't like they can continue doing that indefinitely as the bill eventually comes due, but what are they trying to save so much cap space for THIS YEAR in particularly when they have so much to spend, when it is at the expense of later years?

Many of the top players are already gone, so what do they plan to spend their money on? Maybe a big trade?

 

[WhatJustHappened]

Later years will have higher caps maybe? Rework as needed? I dunno.

 

[maust]

What's interesting to me is how back loaded the biggest contracts of Williams and Davis seem to be. Particularly how little year 1 is compared to later years. It isn't like they can continue doing that indefinitely as the bill eventually comes due, but what are they trying to save so much cap space for THIS YEAR in particularly when they have so much to spend, when it is at the expense of later years?

Many of the top players are already gone, so what do they plan to spend their money on? Maybe a big trade?

I thought with so much cap space available they might actually front load them a bit to preserve future flexibility but it's apparent they're positioning themselves to remain flexible now whether it be to take on large contracts in trade or scoop up cap casualties down the road. If nothing materializes the cap space can be rolled over towards paying the future bill.

 

[Ring 6]

What's interesting to me is how back loaded the biggest contracts of Williams and Davis seem to be. Particularly how little year 1 is compared to later years. It isn't like they can continue doing that indefinitely as the bill eventually comes due, but what are they trying to save so much cap space for THIS YEAR in particularly when they have so much to spend, when it is at the expense of later years?

Many of the top players are already gone, so what do they plan to spend their money on? Maybe a big trade?

That structure is the norm.

The reason it’s the norm is because the team is spreading the cash not the cap.

Since they pay the signing bonus day 1, the first year salary is low, so the cash per year levels out.
There are a bunch of results from that too. The high future salaries create cap savings when you move on. The player will forget all the money he got in year 1 when by year 3 the lower salary due to that offset makes him feel underpaid.

 

[Ring 6]

I thought with so much cap space available they might actually front load them a bit to preserve future flexibility but it's apparent they're positioning themselves to remain flexible now whether it be to take on large contracts in trade or scoop up cap casualties down the road. If nothing materializes the cap space can be rolled over towards paying the future bill.

There is no real reason to front load, because you carry it forward.