We're such a different team

[Patsfanin Philly]

180 degrees, my man. 360 puts us back where we were.

I was told there would be no math involved........

 

[40yrpatsfan]

They've upgraded the depth chart to where it's not laughably bad at any position. They seem to have a good coaching staff. That should keep them competitive week to week.

The thing that's going to make or break them is the fact that they still don't have any elite players besides Gonzo really. He's the only non special teamer on the team who's ever made a pro bowl/all pro team (not counting injury replacements). Maybe Barmore or Williams grow into that on the DL, but on paper they really lack guys who can just take over a game.

Think Jeffrey Simmons last year in our game vs. TEN. Sure, part of that is a bad matchup with our totally inept offensive line which they've addressed, but end of the day that's just a flat out beast going against guys who are overmatched. We're still underwhelming on the line where Campbell will be a rookie, Strange and Bradbury have been average at best, Onwenu is inconsistent and Moses is only solid and aging. We're still weak enough that if we go against a gamewrecking talent with his switch turned on that day, we're suseptible to just being overmatched. Our WRs are still so underwhelming that a team with great coverage is going to be able to totally shut down our passing game. Our LBs and Ss are so weak in coverage that someone will be able to abuse it. So on and so forth.

Our top end talent is still quite easily worst in the NFL on paper entering this year and while the depth chart is improved across the board, it's still mostly in the below average to a bit above it range as opposed to really good at too many spots. Pretty much every week they're going to be faced with multiple matchups where the other team can simply beat us like a drum all day long. We're constantly going to have to compensate for things like that and it's a tough way to play football. It sets you up to be in a lot of close games that the other team has a guy who simply makes more plays than you can keep up with.

I'm expecting 6-8 wins this year with a lot of visible on field progress that has it looking like a team poised to breakout next year with another strong offseason. Many will think that's negative, but IMO, this represents a really positive step for us and I view this offseason as a huge success so far, even though many will think I'm poo-poo'ing it.

This is a case where it makes no sense to benchmark the team (+/- wins) based on last season, due to the enormous scale of change that has gone on. Look a the significant new faces + guys coming back who missed most of last year:
- the whole D except Gonzales: Barmore, M Williams, Tonga, Farmer, Landry, Spillane, Gibbons, Davis, Marcus, Peppers, Dugger
- the whole offense except Maye-Onwenu-Henry: Diggs, Kyle Williams, Hollins, Henderson, Campbell, Moses, Wilson, Strange
- we'll have a lot of mismatches in our favor with these players

Maye will see a quantum leap in his second season and with a very good OC, much better weapons, much better line.

Coaching preparation and game management will be light years better.

The schedule is WAY more favorable than last year's.

So yeah, you're really underselling what this team is going to do.

 

[The Gr8est]

Maye

Campbell
Robinson/Strange
Wilson
Onwenu
Moses

Williams
Diggs
Douglas
Henry
Henderson/Stevenson

That’s their best offense on paper since 2018. Between Maye’s legs, the WRs & Henderson they can beat man coverage. It’s also their fastest offense arguably since 2017.

There are still concerns obviously with the OL & no #1 WR. However, this unit finally has upside after years of having no chance personnel wise.

Let’s hope that a point of emphasis from Josh to Drake, is not to take foolish chances with his body.

These professional footballers hit hard.

Having better players and options around him will help him get away from thinking he needs to play hero ball.

 

[TommyD4207]

Let’s hope that a point of emphasis from Josh to Drake, is not to take foolish chances with his body.

These professional footballers hit hard.

Having better players and options around him will help him get away from thinking he needs to play hero ball.

Or with the football.

 

[40yrpatsfan]

I'm very excited about the defense. I'm bracing myself for offensive struggles (Maye included) given the installation of the McD offense. A sophomore slump isn't out of the question.

I don't see much of a sophomore slump coming. Vrabel is planning on playing WELL INTO January. We will be the Commanders of 2025.

 

[Uptown]

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

For the first time since that 2021 win streak I feel good about our future .

 

[Real fan 02]

It's like a 747 flew in an entirely new organization, different identity, a playoff team. Think of where we are:
1. Vrabel universally respected, demanding, high energy, smart, decisive
2. veteran organized coaching staff in Terrel Williams, Doug Marrone, Josh McDaniels
3. Wolf-Cowden front office that's absolutely killing it
4. on our 2025 schedule: TN, NYG, CAR, CLE, NO, LV, NYJ, NYJ, MIA, MIA, PIT, ATL
5. Drake Maye about to go nuclear
6. receivers Stefon Diggs, Kyle Williams, Mack Hollins, Pop Douglas, Boutte/Bourne, Henry/Hooper at TE, and take-it-to-the-house Henderson
7. two legit OT's and the stud center from Georgia fixes the OL
8. pound the rock with Rham, Henderson, Gibson, and 2 candidates for FB
8. solid/explosive DL with Barmore, Milton Williams, Tonga, Farmer
9. run-defending LB's in Spillane, Gibbons, Jennings
10. pass rush Landry, White, Chaisson, Swinson
11. plugged the DB holes with Carlton Davis and Epps/Woodson
12. got the best college kicker
13. and the cherry on top is a 2026 4th rounder

10-11 wins is a realistic goal. The talent and coaching are there, it's how quickly can we assimilate everything.

World class post. Absolutely on point with everything stated! Add in your two pro Bowl level safeties are back healthy and recharged, Williams will have them In positions to best utilize thier strengths especially with Woodson at FS..

This defense is nothing to be played with.. looking at the schedule we will make every team on the schedule earn every yard they get.

 

[Real fan 02]

For the first time since that 2021 win streak I feel good about our future .

Agreed I feel the entire roster especially the defense is leaps and bounds better than 2021.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Agreed I feel the entire roster especially the defense is leaps and bounds better than 2021.

On paper it certainly is. Jmd is back in charge of the offense with a much better /dynamic qb so i think you can hope for similar results at least.

Defensively the potential is certainly there talent wise… obviously bellichick will be missed on this side but Vrabel and his staff are no slouches!

 

[mnpatfan]

Soft no more!

Amazing what quality leadership can do!

 

[Real fan 02]

On paper it certainly is. Jmd is back in charge of the offense with a much better /dynamic qb so i think you can hope for similar results at least.

Defensively the potential is certainly there talent wise… obviously bellichick will be missed on this side but Vrabel and his staff are no slouches!

Big time! Vrabel's defenses are far easier on the DLs because it's a one gap,penetrative type d.. hit the hole.. drop the RB in the backfield or pressure the QB sp he can't step up in the pocket.. I hated those Patricia defenses... ugh..

 

[cmasspatsfan]

It's like a 747 flew in an entirely new organization, different identity, a playoff team. Think of where we are:
1. Vrabel universally respected, demanding, high energy, smart, decisive
2. veteran organized coaching staff in Terrel Williams, Doug Marrone, Josh McDaniels
3. Wolf-Cowden front office that's absolutely killing it
4. on our 2025 schedule: TN, NYG, CAR, CLE, NO, LV, NYJ, NYJ, MIA, MIA, PIT, ATL
5. Drake Maye about to go nuclear
6. receivers Stefon Diggs, Kyle Williams, Mack Hollins, Pop Douglas, Boutte/Bourne, Henry/Hooper at TE, and take-it-to-the-house Henderson
7. two legit OT's and the stud center from Georgia fixes the OL
8. pound the rock with Rham, Henderson, Gibson, and 2 candidates for FB
8. solid/explosive DL with Barmore, Milton Williams, Tonga, Farmer
9. run-defending LB's in Spillane, Gibbons, Jennings
10. pass rush Landry, White, Chaisson, Swinson
11. plugged the DB holes with Carlton Davis and Epps/Woodson
12. got the best college kicker
13. and the cherry on top is a 2026 4th rounder

10-11 wins is a realistic goal. The talent and coaching are there, it's how quickly can we assimilate everything.

17-0! you convinced me.

 

[PATSYLICIOUS]

Big time! Vrabel's defenses are far easier on the DLs because it's a one gap,penetrative type d.. hit the hole.. drop the RB in the backfield or pressure the QB sp he can't step up in the pocket.. I hated those Patricia defenses... ugh..

I love how quickly we not only turned around the roster but did it with guys who fit into vrabel’s scheme (culture guys as well). And Milton was the only big overpay, but he was the crowning jewel of that fa class, hopefully well worth it.

 

[Real fan 02]

I love how quickly we not only turned around the roster but did it with guys who fit into vrabel’s scheme (culture guys as well). And Milton was the only big overpay, but he was the crowning jewel of that fa class, hopefully well worth it.

Absolutely! We knew we had to overpay to get talent in here. But you touched on good points. High character guys that Vrabel's had some established relationships with.. the LB Gibbens watch out for him too.. the guy plays tough hard nosed football.. these are guys that take pride in stuffing the run.

 

[patfanken]

Still a LOT more work to do in developing a team culture, continuity and building an identity. ALL those things that need to happen to turn individual talent into a TEAM. Granted it's been a great off-season and the "turnaround" has begun. But you cannot award superbowl trophies based on additions on PAPER. If you could, the Jets would have a dozen in their trophy room. Look at all the times THEY won the off season.

Bill used to tell us that EVERY year you add 20-30% new personnel, and you get a new team that has to create its own identity. I think about the 2002 team. Fresh off the most shocking Superbowl win in history. They added even more talent. They had MORE experience together, etc. and what happened. Boom, a big step BACK. More injuries, more TO's, teams were waiting for them, etc. 9-7 and out of the playoffs. **** happens.

I LOVED the OP. And agreed with most of his observations. But this STILL is just a group of individuals that have YET to be molded into a group where the sum will be greater than the individual parts.

 

[PatsFan2]

Maye

Campbell
Robinson/Strange
Wilson
Onwenu
Moses

Williams
Diggs
Douglas
Henry
Henderson/Stevenson

That’s their best offense on paper since 2018. Between Maye’s legs, the WRs & Henderson they can beat man coverage. It’s also their fastest offense arguably since 2017.

There are still concerns obviously with the OL & no #1 WR. However, this unit finally has upside after years of having no chance personnel wise.

McDaniels working with a RPO QB is going to be sick. Not to mention the Speed: we were a molasses slow Offense.

 

[Real fan 02]

McDaniels working with a RPO QB is going to be sick. Not to mention the Speed: we were a molasses slow Offense.

 

[Steve102]

Still a LOT more work to do in developing a team culture, continuity and building an identity. ALL those things that need to happen to turn individual talent into a TEAM. Granted it's been a great off-season and the "turnaround" has begun. But you cannot award superbowl trophies based on additions on PAPER. If you could, the Jets would have a dozen in their trophy room. Look at all the times THEY won the off season.

Bill used to tell us that EVERY year you add 20-30% new personnel, and you get a new team that has to create its own identity. I think about the 2002 team. Fresh off the most shocking Superbowl win in history. They added even more talent. They had MORE experience together, etc. and what happened. Boom, a big step BACK. More injuries, more TO's, teams were waiting for them, etc. 9-7 and out of the playoffs. **** happens.

I LOVED the OP. And agreed with most of his observations. But this STILL is just a group of individuals that have YET to be molded into a group where the sum will be greater than the individual parts.

Way to throw another wet blanket on it, coach.

Do you have any doubts, given the types of "football character" guys they took and signed in FA, that this team will not become a team? Don't give me the Belichick "I'm not in the locker room" answer, either.

Vrabel has work to do, and yes, it's just beginning. But after last year with the marching orders of Just Don't Be Bill, it's refreshing for everyone to see the difference from last year. Given Mike's track record as a player that was very much part of installing the Patriot Way, and his results as a HC, I have no doubt that he'll mold this unit into a team. Gone are the days of playing minor league football.

360 degrees, right @Toofy ?

 

[TheRainMaker]

Assuming health, playoff team or bust.