Vrabel's Staff Discussion Thread (Discuss related news here)

[Huckleberry1]

Thanks for the news flash. Players > scheme

They had one of the worst receiving rooms in football in 23’.

 

[Family]

IDEA OF MANY FANS WHEN A DECISION NEEDS TO BE MADE
Crowden finds out what Vrabel wants and everyone does as Vrabel wants.

Vrabel might get input from others but he is responsible for everything.
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ROFL
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Under Belichick this might have been CLOSE to being true, but IMO there were many times when the influence of others didn't allow Belichick to do as he wished.

The Kraft's just don't run their businesses that way. They know that they should have hired a GM over Belichick sooner AND, they won't make this mistake again.

How in the world would you know any of this?

 

[Rob0729]

We are debating McDaniels and we don't even know if he is a legitimate candidate. From everything I have seen and heard, it is just league speculation without much behind it. It would be the Patriots' MO to bring McDaniels back, but is it Vrabel's?

If he is hired, I would be worried that it is the Krafts forcing a staff on Vrabel. Vrabel didn't want to install the McDaniels offense in Tennessee and he had opportunities to do so.

My guess is Vrabel is going to want a McVay/Shanahan style of offense because that is what he ran in Tennessee and he spent the last year in Cleveland working on their offense which is closer to that style than the McDaniels offense. So I tend to doubt Vrabel is going to select McDaniels.

If I was a betting man, Tommy Rees will be the hire. If it isn't Rees, it will be a McVay or Shanahan guy. Maybe Nick Caley. Maybe Brian Griese (although his luster has diminished with Purdy's poor season). I just don't think Vrabel has an affinity for McDaniels or his offense that people think he does.

 

[signbabybrady]

It's not accent's if the terminology is literally completely different. McDaniels is a superior OC but this isn't the matrix where Maye downloads knowledge...their WILL be a learning curve.

Maye could be the one

 

[RobertWeathers]

I don't expect you to know but how hard would it be for McDaniels to change his terminology to match closer to WC. Maybe it's impossible...apples and oranges...IDK.

Guys like Shane Waldron, Ben Johnson, and a few others have blended schemes and developed their own concepts, terminology etc.

Not sure McD is the guy who has the background to do that.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

They had one of the worst receiving rooms in football in 23’.

It seems like we aren't on the same wavelength. If you are using last years Chief's team as evidence that the WC offense does not require elite players to win the championship, that team had an all time great at QB and a HOF TE who found a way to get open every time the team needed it. That is the same formula used by the Pats with Gronk. To me that is a good argument that the scheme is less important than players. Great teams have great players that step up when it counts the most. That's the Patriot way, I am not as worried about which scheme the team should run. A good OC will find a way to connect with Maye and utilize the available players.

 

[Huckleberry1]

It seems like we aren't on the same wavelength. If you are using last years Chief's team as evidence that the WC offense does not require elite players to win the championship, that team had an all time great at QB and a HOF TE who found a way to get open every time the team needed it. That is the same formula used by the Pats with Gronk. To me that is a good argument that the scheme is less important than players. Great teams have great players that step up when it counts the most. That's the Patriot way, I am not as worried about which scheme the team should run. A good OC will find a way to connect with Maye and utilize the available players.

We are definitel talking on different wavelengths. First you tried to say that EP is better than West Coast in the playoffs, then, when I said KC ran west Coast you changed the discussion to players over scheme. Neither of these discussions really matter to me, my point all along is that Maye is already in a west coast offense and he should stay in it, especially since changing to an EP offense would seriously limit their options if MacDaniels left, as only 3 other teams run it. Had he started in an EP offense I would be arguing to keep it, even though I don’t like it, because changing systems on a young QB is a really bad idea.

 

[cmasspatsfan]

We are debating McDaniels and we don't even know if he is a legitimate candidate. From everything I have seen and heard, it is just league speculation without much behind it. It would be the Patriots' MO to bring McDaniels back, but is it Vrabel's?

If he is hired, I would be worried that it is the Krafts forcing a staff on Vrabel. Vrabel didn't want to install the McDaniels offense in Tennessee and he had opportunities to do so.

My guess is Vrabel is going to want a McVay/Shanahan style of offense because that is what he ran in Tennessee and he spent the last year in Cleveland working on their offense which is closer to that style than the McDaniels offense. So I tend to doubt Vrabel is going to select McDaniels.

If I was a betting man, Tommy Rees will be the hire. If it isn't Rees, it will be a McVay or Shanahan guy. Maybe Nick Caley. Maybe Brian Griese (although his luster has diminished with Purdy's poor season). I just don't think Vrabel has an affinity for McDaniels or his offense that people think he does.

Caley may be open to coming here with Vrabel as coach.

 

[Stu Pidassle]

We are definitel talking on different wavelengths. First you tried to say that EP is better than West Coast in the playoffs, then, when I said KC ran west Coast you changed the discussion to players over scheme. Neither of these discussions really matter to me, my point all along is that Maye is already in a west coast offense and he should stay in it, especially since changing to an EP offense would seriously limit their options if MacDaniels left, as only 3 other teams run it. Had he started in an EP offense I would be arguing to keep it, even though I don’t like it, because changing systems on a young QB is a really bad idea.

There are no absolutes in life. Sometimes discussions are just an exchange of ideas.

 

[Ring 6]

Thats not true.

Formations: Coryell, Walsh, and Earhardt-Perkins Offense Terminology

LOOKING BACK By John Turney We showed last week the personnel groupings in a three of the offensive systems that were used in the NFL. ...

nflfootballjournal.blogspot.com

Of course it’s true.

Here is a clip from what you posted.
For example, the Coryell system uses "I-right" for the halfback to be behind the fullback and the tight end on the right side. The WCO uses "Green right" for the same formation and the Earhardt-Perkins simply calls that "0" (Zero).


Any idiot can learn what I-right, green right or zero means.

Are you really telling me that Drake Maye is too stupid to understand we are going to use numbers instead of colors?

 

[RobertWeathers]

Of course it’s true.

Here is a clip from what you posted.
For example, the Coryell system uses "I-right" for the halfback to be behind the fullback and the tight end on the right side. The WCO uses "Green right" for the same formation and the Earhardt-Perkins simply calls that "0" (Zero).


Any idiot can learn what I-right, green right or zero means.

Are you really telling me that Drake Maye is too stupid to understand we are going to use numbers instead of colors?

There is more to it than that.

We agree to disagree.

 

[dliverey44]

Fire Wolfe.

If they fire Wolf they have to go through a full search, same if they bring someone above Wolf.

 

[Ring 6]

There is more to it than that.

We agree to disagree.

I quoted your “proof”.
But yeah, no need to publicly bang heads against walls.

 

[dliverey44]

I don't expect you to know but how hard would it be for McDaniels to change his terminology to match closer to WC. Maybe it's impossible...apples and oranges...IDK.

Theoretically you can call a play whatever you want, so it wouldn't be that difficult. The problem is the amount of words that the WCO uses is overkill in my opinion. If anything I would want the language words reduced to allow them to break huddle faster and give more time to read the defense pre snap.

 

[dliverey44]

Terminology. Plays. Foundation is either WC or EP. Everything is built on the scheme.

They can add West Coast plays but they are translated into the EP framework.

Something a think people are missing is that the WCO is not the same terminology across all OC's, so there is a chance that the verbiage could differ quite a bit even if another WC OC comes in.

 

[dliverey44]

I think all the coaches are important, and I was happy to hear Vrabel talking about developing players, because that’s what you have to do to become a great team. The draft was never Belichick’s strength, but developing players was.

When he said that he expects coaches to teach made me so ****ing happy because that seems like a lost art in the NFL.

 

[ViperGTS]

If they hire just about anyone other than McD, then they need a high end QB coach. None of the other guys, Pees, Caley etc have ever worked with a QB. I'd argue they need to hire a top flight QB coach regardless.

 

[Ross12]

It looks like Josh McCown will be available to hire this week if they want him. (Technically he can’t sign until Jan 20th but he can interview this week and agree to terms verbally)

 

[signbabybrady]

It looks like Josh McCown will be available to hire this week if they want him. (Technically he can’t sign until Jan 20th but he can interview this week and agree to terms verbally)

Didn't McCown talk some trash in the past too?

 

[Ross12]

Didn't McCown talk some trash in the past too?

Not that I can remember… he stands out to me because he coached Drake in high school and is the QB Coach for Sam Darnold’s revival season

He’s pretty green as a coach though so I’m slightly wary of it.